My chassis just tore like tissue
July 14th, 2014, 11:17 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,790
I would take it to a qualified quality frame shop, they should be able to fix it with out to much drama.
When its there they should check out the frame and body for previous accident repair or rust issues.
Find a shop with a long track record of doing quality work and one that knows how to work on older cars.
Make sure they employ certified techs.
When its there they should check out the frame and body for previous accident repair or rust issues.
Find a shop with a long track record of doing quality work and one that knows how to work on older cars.
Make sure they employ certified techs.
July 14th, 2014, 11:28 PM
#42
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
I would take it to a qualified quality frame shop, they should be able to fix it with out to much drama.
When its there they should check out the frame and body for previous accident repair or rust issues.
Find a shop with a long track record of doing quality work and one that knows how to work on older cars.
Make sure they employ certified techs.
When its there they should check out the frame and body for previous accident repair or rust issues.
Find a shop with a long track record of doing quality work and one that knows how to work on older cars.
Make sure they employ certified techs.
As in, "maybe we can do it. We'll let you know."
The other guys are very far away, and a full custom hot rod fab shop, so super expensive.
So for now, it looks like my mechanic will do the job.
I'm waiting to hear a few more quotes.
If Mike's in Lafayette or the hotrod shop are affordable enough, I may go that route.
Thank you
Last edited by Ces; July 14th, 2014 at 11:31 PM.
July 15th, 2014, 05:55 AM
#43
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
I know that frame work takes levels, a degree finder or inclinometer, tape measures and precision.
That's how I see it, and what I meant.
I've owned a car that had the entire frame from the firewall forward replaced.
The people who did the work had a similar perspective on the job as you seem to, and the car was far from precise when done. It always seemed to track with a slight pitch.
I understand it's not brain surgery, but I want my frame repaired expertly, and with precision.
That's how I see it, and what I meant.
I've owned a car that had the entire frame from the firewall forward replaced.
The people who did the work had a similar perspective on the job as you seem to, and the car was far from precise when done. It always seemed to track with a slight pitch.
I understand it's not brain surgery, but I want my frame repaired expertly, and with precision.
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
July 15th, 2014, 07:17 AM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Posts: 1,815
And if you look at the work of the last guy that didn't say that ... you understand why. Most guys that own a welder aren't weldors. Their welds wouldn't pass inspection, because they don't understand the physics of it. For them, a welder is a metal hot glue gun. They think the strength is in the weld bead .... it's in the fusion of the substrate. The bead is filler. Those guys might get away with sheet metal, but on heavier steel, their welds will not perform. You may need to move away from body shops and hit the yellow pages for a welder with structural experience.
Personally, I hate doing frame work ... but when I do, I don't reach for my mig .... I stick weld it. My mig will manage 1/4" ... but my stick will do 1/4" without even trying.
July 15th, 2014, 10:12 AM
#48
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,311
Some of these comments are missing the point. If the failure is caused by rust internal to the frame rail, you can't simply weld the bracket back into place. Also, typically when a weld tears, there will be some yielding and distortion first, so it isn't clear that you can just push the bracket back into place and reweld it, even if the parent metal isn't rusted.
Also, I suggest talking to a shop that specializes in truck frames. Trucks routinely get their frames lengthened or shortened to mount special bodies.
Also, I suggest talking to a shop that specializes in truck frames. Trucks routinely get their frames lengthened or shortened to mount special bodies.
July 15th, 2014, 10:23 AM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seneca Falls, NY
Posts: 5,261
You are way over-analyzing this. Unless there's some kind of rust problem in the area (which it doesn't appear to have), grind the distorted area out, grind the weld down to decent base metal, and re-weld it. If you're still fearful and it makes you happy, plate the sides. This is a car frame, not a nuclear containment vessel
July 15th, 2014, 10:23 AM
#50
I think no matter what there is a solution to this. Regardless if the frame is thin in that spot. You could weld the bracket then weld plates that go around the bracket and butt up to eachother and weld those ontop of the existing steel then box the sides and top of the frame rail. It might be over kill but you will be adding strength to it. We welded many areas on my frame that where rotted out and very thin we cut the rust back and welded new plates. My car has been a midwest car its whole life. Personallyi like the idea of the truck shop but any good welder with a portable welder will probably be upto the task.
July 15th, 2014, 10:33 AM
#51
Beer Connoisseur
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Daly City, California
Posts: 2,090
You are way over-analyzing this. Unless there's some kind of rust problem in the area (which it doesn't appear to have), grind the distorted area out, grind the weld down to decent base metal, and re-weld it. If you're still fearful and it makes you happy, plate the sides. This is a car frame, not a nuclear containment vessel
July 15th, 2014, 02:17 PM
#52
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
You are missing my point. This isn't a case of an entire section of frame being replaced. It isn't a case of anything being replaced.
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
I call that precise.
Enough said.
July 15th, 2014, 02:22 PM
#53
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
You are missing my point. This isn't a case of an entire section of frame being replaced. It isn't a case of anything being replaced.
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
We haven't got there yet.
The poorly repaired bracket may need to be replaced.
As we are talking about where my front right lower suspension attaches to the frame, I want it done precisely. That's all I said.
I may have to replace part of my frame.
I'll find out soon.
Thanks so much for all your great advice.
SHEESH
July 15th, 2014, 02:28 PM
#54
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
You are missing my point. This isn't a case of an entire section of frame being replaced. It isn't a case of anything being replaced.
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
You have all of the parts already, the car was straight and properly aligned before this happened, and you have a "fingerprint" so to speak, where the part that came off can fit only one exact way onto the frame.
You know that when that part is in that position, the car is straight.
You drove it for a long time with it in that position and liked the way it drove.
No levels, tape measures, degree finders, inclinometers, tape measures, lasers, or anything else is needed here.
That stuff is for when you are building something from scratch. In this case you know exactly, within a few thousandths of an inch, where the part has to go. All you need to do is to jack and remove the lower A-arm (I know Copper is fond of leaving it assembled, but I prefer to start from scratch and have full access to the parts in question), find the exact spot where the bracket was located, mark the area, do any necessary clean-up and patching around where it goes (and it it was just a bad weld, that may be essentially none), tack it into its proper position, and then weld it in place, with or without fish plates.
You can measure and overthink all you want, but if it was in the right place to begin with, and you put it back in the right place, then you've made it as precise as it can get.
- Eric
the front rh wheel had a weird angle to it, and now I know why.
you're being very presumptuous and a bit aggressive, frankly.
talking like you've seen the car, and you know the entire situation.
July 15th, 2014, 02:36 PM
#55
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
You are way over-analyzing this. Unless there's some kind of rust problem in the area (which it doesn't appear to have), grind the distorted area out, grind the weld down to decent base metal, and re-weld it. If you're still fearful and it makes you happy, plate the sides. This is a car frame, not a nuclear containment vessel
Pretty simple from where I'm sitting.
And I've reached this point of relative calm, largely due to the good people of CO.
So I thank you all, again.
July 15th, 2014, 02:49 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Posts: 1,815
July 15th, 2014, 03:07 PM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 2,357
Everyone is concerned about the outcome on this. We all hope it can be fixed quick but also be safe going into the future. Its a beautiful car and until you get a final diagnosis from a qualified shop you will just get frustrated thinking or talking about it. Please let us know what you find out. Good luck on it.
July 15th, 2014, 03:25 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,790
X2
This is non negotiable!
You do not weld a bracket under coil spring tension that is plain stupid!
The welder should have certification no back yard hacks!
When you have a failure you must look at what caused the failure to ensure it does not happen again!
This is why you check the rest of the frame for previous damage and rust!
When ever I was in charge of a car restoration first stop was the frame machine for a inspection best time and money spent,start straight finish straight! This is done before the first screw or bolt is ever removed form the car.
This was non negotiable in my opinion,I have even seen big name car show hosts get caught out and have to pull the car after the body work was started,talk about unprofessional.
After the car is repaired buy competent frame shop it should have a alignment, some shops also do this as well as frame repair.A good alignment involves inspection of all steering and handling components front and rear.
Last edited by Bernhard; July 15th, 2014 at 03:51 PM.
July 15th, 2014, 03:25 PM
#59
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
We only know what you tell us. You never mentioned that the front end had been misbehaving.
Some might have considered that piece of information to be relevant to the story, and to one's ability to get the best possible advice here.
In that case, then, yes, you have to measure to get the bracket back to the right position.
For what it's worth, in my youth I drove a '70 Chevelle for a year with no lower control arm bushing at all in that position. The car was a bit loose, but not hard to control, and I drove it on the highway often.
The exact positioning of that bracket is not as critical as you seem to believe, so long as it's in about the right place. I don't know the exact specs, but there may be some body men here who do. I would guess that the spec. probably allows for variation of a sixteenth of an inch or more.
- Eric
Some might have considered that piece of information to be relevant to the story, and to one's ability to get the best possible advice here.
In that case, then, yes, you have to measure to get the bracket back to the right position.
For what it's worth, in my youth I drove a '70 Chevelle for a year with no lower control arm bushing at all in that position. The car was a bit loose, but not hard to control, and I drove it on the highway often.
The exact positioning of that bracket is not as critical as you seem to believe, so long as it's in about the right place. I don't know the exact specs, but there may be some body men here who do. I would guess that the spec. probably allows for variation of a sixteenth of an inch or more.
- Eric
July 15th, 2014, 04:12 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,790
Some of these comments are missing the point. If the failure is caused by rust internal to the frame rail, you can't simply weld the bracket back into place. Also, typically when a weld tears, there will be some yielding and distortion first, so it isn't clear that you can just push the bracket back into place and reweld it, even if the parent metal isn't rusted.
Also, I suggest talking to a shop that specializes in truck frames. Trucks routinely get their frames lengthened or shortened to mount special bodies.
Also, I suggest talking to a shop that specializes in truck frames. Trucks routinely get their frames lengthened or shortened to mount special bodies.
There is a procedure you follow when you repair or weld brackets on to a frame.
1. Lower control are must not be attached! no tension on the bracket.
2. The bracket must be free of all paint/tar/oil, bare metal, bracket must be straight.
3. Old welds must be ground off from the bracket and frame.
4. Frame/base metal must be clean, no paint ,oil tar, bare metal.
5. Frame/base metal must be rust free, sound and straight.
6. Fit bracket,align bracket, tack bracket.
7. Only when it is correct do you complete the repair by welding the bracket on.
8. They may have to reinforce the area as Copper has posted due to metal fatigue,or weak point in the metal/frame . This is why you go to a shop that knows what they are doing where they have done this type of repair often. When you go to a quality shop you are not just paying for what they do but the knowledge they have to do the repair right the first time!
There are many steps to a quality repair this is not a back yard type of repair/corner garage/muffler shop/brake shop etc .
This is a frame shop repair !
Last edited by Bernhard; July 15th, 2014 at 04:24 PM.
July 15th, 2014, 04:22 PM
#61
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,561
And an experienced Welder or Frame fab guy knows all about the above mentioned procedures. Eric/MD is correct it's not rocket science, however it needs to be done by someone who knows what they are doing. The measurements are simple, the metal prep and the weld are critical.
July 15th, 2014, 04:40 PM
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 634
This story reminds me of a friend that broke his hand skiing at Vail. All day long the Dr. in town fixed broken hands from ski accidents. The guy was an expert and it was routine.
In SoCal, no one wants to weld on a frame, because they don't typically do it. In the northeast, welding anything and everything is normal. If this happened in the rust belt few would hesitate.
In SoCal, no one wants to weld on a frame, because they don't typically do it. In the northeast, welding anything and everything is normal. If this happened in the rust belt few would hesitate.
July 15th, 2014, 04:58 PM
#63
Bernhard we did my frame in the garage.
We fixed about 9 areas that needed new steel along with the front bushing mounts that go on the firewall. I would take the control arm bracket repair over this any day.
We fixed about 9 areas that needed new steel along with the front bushing mounts that go on the firewall. I would take the control arm bracket repair over this any day.
July 15th, 2014, 05:06 PM
#64
morgan
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 1,925
This story reminds me of a friend that broke his hand skiing at Vail. All day long the Dr. in town fixed broken hands from ski accidents. The guy was an expert and it was routine.
In SoCal, no one wants to weld on a frame, because they don't typically do it. In the northeast, welding anything and everything is normal. If this happened in the rust belt few would hesitate.
In SoCal, no one wants to weld on a frame, because they don't typically do it. In the northeast, welding anything and everything is normal. If this happened in the rust belt few would hesitate.
July 15th, 2014, 05:36 PM
#65
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,790
I was trained as a auto body tech, We were trained not to take short cuts and that we were liable for every repair.
We had to pass welding exams in gas, mig, and stick along with metallurgy before we could ever weld on a car.
I have seen all kinds of poor repairs from shops to back yard body shops that would make your hair stand up on the back of your neck.
Competent is competent that is the bottom line if the frame is straight you can repair it in your garage as long as you have the skill set and knowledge.
There is a area were I live that has a reputation for back yard hacks that build cars.
Every time we see such cars we coin the phrase ________ engineering at its best.
Copper this is not meant for you this is a general statement regarding poor repair and race car builds.
After a repair they should hit the repaired area with primer and paint to protect it from rust this is all part of a long lasting repair.
We had to pass welding exams in gas, mig, and stick along with metallurgy before we could ever weld on a car.
I have seen all kinds of poor repairs from shops to back yard body shops that would make your hair stand up on the back of your neck.
Competent is competent that is the bottom line if the frame is straight you can repair it in your garage as long as you have the skill set and knowledge.
There is a area were I live that has a reputation for back yard hacks that build cars.
Every time we see such cars we coin the phrase ________ engineering at its best.
Copper this is not meant for you this is a general statement regarding poor repair and race car builds.
After a repair they should hit the repaired area with primer and paint to protect it from rust this is all part of a long lasting repair.
Last edited by Bernhard; July 15th, 2014 at 05:45 PM.
July 15th, 2014, 06:09 PM
#66
Its all good bernhard. I have only been in the collision repair feild 8 years and I still learn everyday. I have had rust repairs last years and some a few weeks. The difrence between the long lasting ones and the not long lasting ones is time. The ones that lasted I did at home and I took my time the ones I hurried up because the shop wanted it done and out usually rust up fast and they come back regardless if we tell them we cannot warranty they work. I just do the very best job I can do with the knowledge I know and sometimes I try new things I constantly look on youtube and pick up books on body repair just to see what new thing I could learn and use to my advantage. I agree it has to be done right. When I fixed my frame I had my friend weld it for me he is much more talented with the mig welder than I am.
July 15th, 2014, 06:32 PM
#68
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 2,790
Copper
You have the right attitude a good tech never stops learning, I had to leave the trade I became sensitized.
I truly enjoyed the trade and adding to my skill set always enjoyed learning form the masters.
Pick and file and using lead filler where past when I started but that did not stop me from learning the skills required to perform this type of repair.
I always thought I was good till I visited a restoration shop,there are a lot of shops that use this word but there are truly few that perform restorations at this level.
They took rare British and German cars that I thought were two far gone and restored them to showroom condition. There was no plastic or lead filler required that is how good the metal finishing was. They hammer welded hand formed body panels that were made as good as a die to repair rust. They brought back metal that was damaged and over worked by so called body men to perfect form/shape with out filler.
This was truly humbling going through there shop.
Dose one need this level of skill and restoration too enjoy there Olds no,but it sure is nice to see body man/panel beaters/artisans work at this level.
You have the right attitude a good tech never stops learning, I had to leave the trade I became sensitized.
I truly enjoyed the trade and adding to my skill set always enjoyed learning form the masters.
Pick and file and using lead filler where past when I started but that did not stop me from learning the skills required to perform this type of repair.
I always thought I was good till I visited a restoration shop,there are a lot of shops that use this word but there are truly few that perform restorations at this level.
They took rare British and German cars that I thought were two far gone and restored them to showroom condition. There was no plastic or lead filler required that is how good the metal finishing was. They hammer welded hand formed body panels that were made as good as a die to repair rust. They brought back metal that was damaged and over worked by so called body men to perfect form/shape with out filler.
This was truly humbling going through there shop.
Dose one need this level of skill and restoration too enjoy there Olds no,but it sure is nice to see body man/panel beaters/artisans work at this level.
July 15th, 2014, 06:34 PM
#69
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
I'll add that we are indeed removing the front suspension and springs.
My bushings happened to need replacement and as I'm putting a 455 in this car soon, I may as well swap the bb springs in at that time.
My mechanic said regardless of those facts, he would be disconnecting suspension parts and removing the front springs to properly weld the frame.
With my inexperience in this, I apologize for leaving out relevant info.
I'm learning on the fly and under a bit of pressure from more experienced people who are helping analize this mess. I'll read the thread a bit more and gladly reply to the new posts above...
Great help, y'all.
My bushings happened to need replacement and as I'm putting a 455 in this car soon, I may as well swap the bb springs in at that time.
My mechanic said regardless of those facts, he would be disconnecting suspension parts and removing the front springs to properly weld the frame.
With my inexperience in this, I apologize for leaving out relevant info.
I'm learning on the fly and under a bit of pressure from more experienced people who are helping analize this mess. I'll read the thread a bit more and gladly reply to the new posts above...
Great help, y'all.
Last edited by Ces; July 15th, 2014 at 06:42 PM.
July 15th, 2014, 06:37 PM
#70
Justin
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: utah
Posts: 3,447
Copper
You have the right attitude a good tech never stops learning, I had to leave the trade I became sensitized.
I truly enjoyed the trade and adding to my skill set always enjoyed learning form the masters.
Pick and file and using lead filler where past when I started but that did not stop me from learning the skills required to perform this type of repair.
I always thought I was good till I visited a restoration shop,there are a lot of shops that use this word but there are truly few that perform restorations at this level.
They took rare British and German cars that I thought were two far gone and restored them to showroom condition. There was no plastic or lead filler required that is how good the metal finishing was. They hammer welded hand formed body panels that were made as good as a die to repair rust. They brought back metal that was damaged and over worked by so called body men to perfect form/shape with out filler.
This was truly humbling going through there shop.
Dose one need this level of skill and restoration too enjoy there Olds no,but it sure is nice to see body man/panel beaters/artisans work at this level.
You have the right attitude a good tech never stops learning, I had to leave the trade I became sensitized.
I truly enjoyed the trade and adding to my skill set always enjoyed learning form the masters.
Pick and file and using lead filler where past when I started but that did not stop me from learning the skills required to perform this type of repair.
I always thought I was good till I visited a restoration shop,there are a lot of shops that use this word but there are truly few that perform restorations at this level.
They took rare British and German cars that I thought were two far gone and restored them to showroom condition. There was no plastic or lead filler required that is how good the metal finishing was. They hammer welded hand formed body panels that were made as good as a die to repair rust. They brought back metal that was damaged and over worked by so called body men to perfect form/shape with out filler.
This was truly humbling going through there shop.
Dose one need this level of skill and restoration too enjoy there Olds no,but it sure is nice to see body man/panel beaters/artisans work at this level.
July 15th, 2014, 11:05 PM
#72
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
Everyone is concerned about the outcome on this. We all hope it can be fixed quick but also be safe going into the future. Its a beautiful car and until you get a final diagnosis from a qualified shop you will just get frustrated thinking or talking about it. Please let us know what you find out. Good luck on it.
I'll continue to post updates as I learn new info and the repairs progress.
One of my mechanics comes tomorrow am to start removing wheels, suspension, springs and to help me order parts.
The mechanic doing the welding can't start until next week.
I'm just trying to get a head start in preparation for the welding.
Hagerty adjuster is also coming tomorrow.
They said they definitely cover any body and paint dange caused by this happening, but likely exclude frame and suspension bracket failure.
With the exception of,
A. the failed repair being done in a professional repair shop
OR
B. by some private unqualified person.
Interestingly, they refused to specify which of those two are covered...
The nice lady on the phone said, "she couldn't remember."
July 16th, 2014, 06:52 AM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Mo-Ray-Al, K-Bec.
Posts: 1,815
This this this all freaking day long. Every time I hear of someone melting metal without an understanding of the metallurgy, I just want to cry. A welder without the metallurgy is like an astronomer who doesn't know that stars are different distances away. No matter how good the equipment or skill, it's doomed to failure.
July 16th, 2014, 09:50 AM
#74
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
Started disassembly work this morning.
Here's a slightly better look at the failure:
image_zpscac22293.jpg
Here's a slightly better look at the failure:
image_zpscac22293.jpg
Last edited by Ces; July 16th, 2014 at 02:55 PM.
July 16th, 2014, 09:53 AM
#76
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
July 16th, 2014, 10:16 AM
#78
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,311
This is a much more informative photo. Obviously the repair will be more involved than simply rewelding the bracket to the frame, as the whole bottom surface of the frame has separated. The good news is that from what I can see, the metal of the frame appears to be near original thickness, so I don't think this is a rust-related problem. The rust on the fracture edge tells me that this is a long-standing fatigue crack that simply propagated over time. Often if there is an undercut in the original bracket weld or a flaw, that can start a crack that just keeps growing. At a minimum you'll need to pull the suspension off of that side for a proper repair. Pulling the front sheet metal and even the engine will make it much easier to ensure a quality weld. You may want to consider completely replacing the front frame section on that side, as a properly done butt weld that's away from the crack location will be much easier to do than trying to get that distorted metal to line back up.
July 16th, 2014, 10:30 AM
#79
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: East Oakland, Ca.
Posts: 180
