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Looks great. Funny the way a bushing repair turns into full on suspension, brake, steering upgrade.
Kyb gr2 are good gas shocks that won’t break the bank.
When you do the rear arm box, also replace the rear springs.
My prediction is that you will be driving this car a whole lot faster in the corners. Going to keep up with modern traffic. You will love it!
By the way, you did this right. Your suspension will provide nearly the same performance as the aftermarket tubulars, will be more street friendly, more reliable, easily repaired, factory fit and cost tons less. Nice!
Last edited by bry593; July 15th, 2019 at 06:25 AM.
Here's a pic of my upper with the same Moog ball joint. Looks much better sitting on the ground so I wouldn't worry.
Also, I had the KYB Gas-A-Just shocks on the front and back. I really liked them; nice and stiff but not too stiff. About $70 each IIRC. But I ruined one of the fronts. The lower control arm shock pocket was too small for the shock tangs. I must have overheated the shock when grinding down the tangs to fit (even though i was dipping it in water). I was doing the final tightening on the front sway bar and getting ready to test the new front end when it puked its fluid all over the floor. Now I have Monroe in the front. Cheap but the only thing available. Go for the KYBs, you won't regret it.
Looks great. Funny the way a bushing repair turns into full on suspension, brake, steering upgrade.
Kyb gr2 are good gas shocks that won’t break the bank.
When you do the rear arm box, also replace the rear springs.
My prediction is that you will be driving this car a whole lot faster in the corners. Going to keep up with modern traffic. You will love it!
By the way, you did this right. Your suspension will provide nearly the same performance as the aftermarket tubulars, will be more street friendly, more reliable, easily repaired, factory fit and cost tons less. Nice!
Thanks for the positive reinforcement! I had planned on redoing everything once I got into the front end - so now I know exactly where I’m at with it - no mystery to when this or that was done - I already ordered the shocks - ordered new 72 vista cruiser rear springs to add a little lift as well (I’m getting rid of the air shocks - that’s not the way I wanted to go with it) - thanks again! To be honest ... I’m just glad it won’t creak like old bed springs when I go over a pebble in the road lol!
Here's a pic of my upper with the same Moog ball joint. Looks much better sitting on the ground so I wouldn't worry.
Also, I had the KYB Gas-A-Just shocks on the front and back. I really liked them; nice and stiff but not too stiff. About $70 each IIRC. But I ruined one of the fronts. The lower control arm shock pocket was too small for the shock tangs. I must have overheated the shock when grinding down the tangs to fit (even though i was dipping it in water). I was doing the final tightening on the front sway bar and getting ready to test the new front end when it puked its fluid all over the floor. Now I have Monroe in the front. Cheap but the only thing available. Go for the KYBs, you won't regret it.
Thanks! Getting closer!!! Might be able to sit it on tires tonight and see ride height for first time!
The wagon springs might make it a bit taller than you want, but at least the rear springs are fairly easy to change out if you don't like the height.
One more piece of advice, I recommend the rear springs be constant rate and not CC or Cargo Control. The CC are variable rate (coils wound far apart and then close together). The issue with variable rate is that when cornering and encountering bumps, the changing spring rate causes unpredictable (non-linear) rebound and this tends to upset the tail end into oversteer. It can be a bit scary in my experience. Won't do that again....
As mentioned by Macadoo, the KYB have higher damping than a Monroe or Gabriel shock. This will make your springs feel a little stiffer and improve handling.
The wagon springs might make it a bit taller than you want, but at least the rear springs are fairly easy to change out if you don't like the height.
One more piece of advice, I recommend the rear springs be constant rate and not CC or Cargo Control. The CC are variable rate (coils wound far apart and then close together). The issue with variable rate is that when cornering and encountering bumps, the changing spring rate causes unpredictable (non-linear) rebound and this tends to upset the tail end into oversteer. It can be a bit scary in my experience. Won't do that again....
As mentioned by Macadoo, the KYB have higher damping than a Monroe or Gabriel shock. This will make your springs feel a little stiffer and improve handling.
Well crap - I ordered the cc505 Moog rear springs - but like you said ... easy swap out - sick of throwing money away at bad choices though
These four pics are for Phil who asked me a question in messages (don’t know how to post pics to messages) I believe the springs that came out were original - had this tag on it Original measured exactly 17” These are the replacement sprints I ordered - still available as far as I know but got these particular ones 17-18 years ago You can see new vs old (new now painted red) both 17” but it appears the new gave me a 2” rise over old - I’m sure I will lose an inch in the first year due to settling
Last edited by 72442455; July 15th, 2019 at 03:52 PM.
The wagon springs might make it a bit taller than you want, but at least the rear springs are fairly easy to change out if you don't like the height.
One more piece of advice, I recommend the rear springs be constant rate and not CC or Cargo Control. The CC are variable rate (coils wound far apart and then close together). The issue with variable rate is that when cornering and encountering bumps, the changing spring rate causes unpredictable (non-linear) rebound and this tends to upset the tail end into oversteer. It can be a bit scary in my experience. Won't do that again....
As mentioned by Macadoo, the KYB have higher damping than a Monroe or Gabriel shock. This will make your springs feel a little stiffer and improve handling.
Hey Bry593 could you post a pic of your ride for stance purposes? And a recommendation for rear springs? Like Moog part # ? I do want away from air shocks - but I don’t want my *** to drag either - when I got the car the rear springs were toast - a friend gave me the rear springs that are in it now which were better but still low and weak - I want a little rake to it (I know lowering the front end is the best way to do that but that’s not happening anytime soon) I read that the vc spring would gain about an inch over stock which is acceptable to me - I figure with the front end work ... losing the air shocks and getting gas adjust ... boxing the LCA and adding a sway bar - it will still be a helluva improvement over where it was
Hey Joe, if this is the look you want then go for it. These springs (don't recall the Moog #) we're supposed to be a 9" ride height. I went out and measured a few days ago and they're riding at 11.5"! They're clocked correctly too. Then add the 1/4 inch for the pads. Ugh, it's too high. And IIRC, the springs are wound the way Bry described. Is that why, after hitting a big bump in the road, the arss end feel like it goes down and to the side rather than just up and down? Bry?
I would also like a recommendation for rear springs. Honestly, these look great from the rear or the front but from the side? Not so much.
Oh, hey Joe, I found the source of the thud in my car. It got really bad today and I found that all three of the flex plate to torque converter bolts were about to fall out! Scary! I torqued them back up but now I'm thinking I might pull them and put some blue loctite on them
Last edited by Macadoo; July 15th, 2019 at 03:30 PM.
Try bouncing the front end before you torque the UCA and LCA's. It might (but I doubt) bring your front end down a bit. Nice job getting it together!
I bounced the hell out of it before I torqued it - no worries - once I get the tierods in I’m going to go duke boy jump some creeks to break in the front end - that should settle it!
Hey Joe, if this is the look you want then go for it. These springs (don't recall the Moog #) we're supposed to be a 9" ride height. I went out and measured a few days ago and they're riding at 11.5"! They're clocked correctly too. Then add the 1/4 inch for the pads. Ugh, it's too high. And IIRC, the springs are wound the way Bry described. Is that why, after hitting a big bump in the road, the arss end feel like it goes down and to the side rather than just up and down? Bry?
I would also like a recommendation for rear springs. Honestly, these look great from the rear or the front but from the side? Not so much.
Oh, hey Joe, I found the source of the thud in my car. It got really bad today and I found that all three of the flex plate to torque converter bolts were about to fall out! Scary! I torqued them back up but now I'm thinking I might pull them and put some blue loctite on them
Thanks for the pic your car is badass Mac - I still love the Cragers! - yeah that’s kinda the stance I’m looking for - maybe a tad lower - my air shocks lifting the *** up make it ride like you described as well - but the whole suspension was tired as well - I would sacrifice the height for a better ride - but don’t want the dog dragging it’s *** across the carpet look either - I’m glad you sorted out the “thud” - I said u-joints so I was on the right track with drive train - never had that happen before - not sure what the implications would have been had it gotten worse? Sheered bolts? Either way it’s gotta feel great having the answer! I’m glad you caught it in time!
She is sitting pretty tall and mean in the front. Some people like that. I personally like a little clearance under my car, especially if running headers. That said, yes it will settle. Give it a year, it will settle a 1/2" or so and require a new alignment. I'd hold on to these springs and see how you like them. I don't recall, were those 455 A/C springs and is your car 350 no-A/C? If so, you might need to chop a coil. This will increase spring rate, but decrease travel to bump stop.
The real issue as I mentioned before, is that you have new springs on the front and old springs on the rear. The old springs have sagged, and the new springs are not broken in. Get the right springs for the rear, HD springs to match the front. This should give it a little rake or at least level it out.
At any rate (no pun intended), it is going to handle like you never knew existed.
I don't have any pics of my '68, since she is still up on stands and torn into about 1,000 pieces. You see, I went in to change some exhaust gaskets and add a new wiring harness under the hood. And, well... you know....
I do have some pics of my '70 Caprice. On the front, it has BB springs with one coil removed with a chop saw (no heat). Notice the rake? The rear has CC that really make it loose if taking high speeds (65+) on bumpy corners. This is my current daily to work driver. 413 cubic inches, 24mpg highway/ 12 in town, a/c, hands free blue tooth and keyless make it a pretty decent driver.
Last edited by bry593; July 15th, 2019 at 05:06 PM.
She is sitting pretty tall and mean in the front. Some people like that. I personally like a little clearance under my car, especially if running headers. That said, yes it will settle. Give it a year, it will settle a 1/2" or so and require a new alignment. I'd hold on to these springs and see how you like them. I don't recall, were those 455 A/C springs and is your car 350 no-A/C? If so, you might need to chop a coil. This will increase spring rate, but decrease travel to bump stop.
The real issue as I mentioned before, is that you have new springs on the front and old springs on the rear. The old springs have sagged, and the new springs are not broken in. Get the right springs for the rear, HD springs to match the front. This should give it a little rake or at least level it out.
At any rate (no pun intended), it is going to handle like you never knew existed.
I don't have any pics of my '68, since she is still up on stands and torn into about 1,000 pieces. You see, I went in to change some exhaust gaskets and add a new wiring harness under the hood. And, well... you know....
I do have some pics of my '70 Caprice. On the front, it has BB springs with one coil removed with a chop saw (no heat). Notice the rake? The rear has CC that really make it loose if taking high speeds (65+) on bumpy corners. This is my current daily to work driver. 413 cubic inches, 24mpg highway/ 12 in town, a/c, hands free blue tooth and keyless make it a pretty decent driver.
Very nice! My car was originally a 350 with a/c ... I pulled the a/c as it didn’t work - and pulled the 350 and added a 455. -I bought the 455 springs with a/c as I will be adding the a/c back in - since I already ordered the vc cc springs I will put them in with the gas adjust shocks and boxed LCA and add sway bar - give it a go for a few - it it’s too crappy then I’ll switch them out - I was hoping to get the front springs at the correct height (to me - I didn’t want a gasser) the first time around - this is going to be the way she stands for the foreseeable future because I have to tackle many other jobs on her - but it’s not too horribly high in my opinion - hope to get tie rods in tomorrow and torque everything down - grease everything up. - and bleed the power steering gear box - have to have rear lower control arms pulled by Friday - I really appreciate everyone’s input - this was a big job that scared the hell out of me going in - but on this side of it it really wasn’t all that bad - this was the job I was most afraid to get into - now with it almost done - body work is my new greatest fear lol
Lol, yeah, thanks Joe. It's a little more badass than I meant it to be. But it's certainly fun. When it comes to rake, just make sure you fill the wheel well as best you can. I have 275 60/15s in the rear and still a lot of wheel well. But bigger tires equal more weight. I'd like to bring mine down an inch or two.
Very nice! My car was originally a 350 with a/c ... I pulled the a/c as it didn’t work - and pulled the 350 and added a 455. -I bought the 455 springs with a/c as I will be adding the a/c back in - since I already ordered the vc cc springs I will put them in with the gas adjust shocks and boxed LCA and add sway bar - give it a go for a few - it it’s too crappy then I’ll switch them out - I was hoping to get the front springs at the correct height (to me - I didn’t want a gasser) the first time around - this is going to be the way she stands for the foreseeable future because I have to tackle many other jobs on her - but it’s not too horribly high in my opinion - hope to get tie rods in tomorrow and torque everything down - grease everything up. - and bleed the power steering gear box - have to have rear lower control arms pulled by Friday - I really appreciate everyone’s input - this was a big job that scared the hell out of me going in - but on this side of it it really wasn’t all that bad - this was the job I was most afraid to get into - now with it almost done - body work is my new greatest fear lol
Dude, I would seriously consider heeding Bry's recommendation for the rear springs. I can't stand driving my car on the interstate because it does exactly what he describes. Straight interstate is great; I'm confident and relaxed. But give me a few curves, especially bumpy ones, and I can't get any blood to my fingers. It doesn't feel safe. Swapping rear springs is my next project.
Dude, I would seriously consider heeding Bry's recommendation for the rear springs. I can't stand driving my car on the interstate because it does exactly what he describes. Straight interstate is great; I'm confident and relaxed. But give me a few curves, especially bumpy ones, and I can't get any blood to my fingers. It doesn't feel safe. Swapping rear springs is my next project.
I am listening - but I can’t stop the wrong ones from coming - I’m not made of $ - so it’s live with these for the time being - it’s an easy 10 minute tops swap so no biggie
BTW, 72442455 - I forgot to say that you really did a fantastic job on this entire build. Really, really nice work! And, Mac and Allen your cars - also great looking, commendable work.
Phil
BTW, 72442455 - I forgot to say that you really did a fantastic job on this entire build. Really, really nice work! And, Mac and Allen your cars - also great looking, commendable work.
Phil
Yes, a/c springs without a/c components will make a small difference. Compressor, brackets, hoses and condenser are probably 50lb or more.
Problem is ... I will be using vintage air - which I imagine is much lighter then the original - no biggie though - I’m not unhappy with the height - just not exactly what I was going for - it will settle a bit in the next year - got one tie rod on - the sleeve on the other has messed up threads - had to order another - won’t be here until Friday - ugh - got the rear control arms Ready to pull
Problem is ... I will be using vintage air - which I imagine is much lighter then the original - no biggie though - I’m not unhappy with the height - just not exactly what I was going for - it will settle a bit in the next year - got one tie rod on - the sleeve on the other has messed up threads - had to order another - won’t be here until Friday - ugh - got the rear control arms Ready to pull
Good to know I’m not the only one at least 🙄 - got the rear control arms pulled - will get them boxed this weekend then hopefully Sunday night / Monday night I can put the rear end all together with new springs and shocks (do not have the rear sway bar yet - need to pay some of this off first) and get the linkage all in torqued and greased then power steering bleed - then hopefully test drive 😃
I hope you have a good alignment guy. Mine wasn't that great.
I tightened my steering box using the allen screw on the top and it's a lot better. I also loctited those torque converter screws today so they won't weigh on me every time I drive, lol.
You're getting there, man. It's going to be great. And those red UCA shafts look perfect.
I hope you have a good alignment guy. Mine wasn't that great.
I tightened my steering box using the allen screw on the top and it's a lot better. I also loctited those torque converter screws today so they won't weigh on me every time I drive, lol.
You're getting there, man. It's going to be great. And those red UCA shafts look perfect.
Thanks Mac! Closer yet - just need to measure toe and torque down the sleeves - bleed power steering box - clean and paint wheel wells - reassemble those plus battery tray - and front end is done (oh and front sway bar)
Haven’t installed the sway bar yet - just putting these up there for some of your eagle eye evaluations - here’s some before / after pics Before After Before After Before After
Just got back from a weekend get away down In Indiana with the girl friend (did the sand dunes beach / scored a nice dwell meter from an antique store / and hit up the La Porte historic society car show - only one olds while I was there - a 1982 cutlass owned by a nice gentleman named Jeff.
I would like to give a special shout out to Nicks1966 !!! He helped me out big time by welding in the inserts to box my stock rear lower control arms - absolutely beautiful job (when you come to Grand Rapids or Lansing area - look us up!) Thanks again Nick!!! Jeff representing in LaPorte IN Thanks Nicks1966! Look us up when you head north!
Well... after repainting my control arms / new rear springs / and front sway bar .... PINK! I went and got the red red paint and did it again 😩 - guess I’m slightly color blind for paint can caps (wish they would put the name under it because it’s not exactly as the cap looks) got the old springs out / air shocks out - but ran out of time on painting - hopefully I can get the rear end back together tomorrow - also ... I see a spot under the pinion seal - I just had that done 😩 - too tired to investigate further at the moment
Bummer, There's nothing like having to something twice - I'm glad I've never done anything like that.....ha sure I haven't! Sounds like you need to write the color on a piece of tape placed on the can - just sayin'.
Bummer, There's nothing like having to something twice - I'm glad I've never done anything like that.....ha sure I haven't! Sounds like you need to write the color on a piece of tape placed on the can - just sayin'.
Problem is - I bought the wrong color at the store - wish they labeled it as “red” or “pink” or whatever - it was only slightly pink but still not solid red - cap looked red to me *shrug* hehe yeah hate doing things over
Getting so close to wrapping up this project - tomorrow I should get the rear end all back together - front sway bar in - toe adjusted - steering pump bleed - and front shocks in .... that leaves detailing wheel wells and installing them and battery tray and battery - (I still need to get new tires - install my “new” parking brake pedal lever) then hopefully we are good to go Here’s the pink 🤣 (red one for comparison is in the grass) Back to red
Hmm, pink.....interesting. Might get a lot of attention at car shows, lol. Sorry dude, not laughing at your pain. At least you didn't have to strip the old paint, yeah?
You having nice weather this week? It's perfect down here in central Illinois. Getting a lot of driving in (not rubbing it in).
Hmm, pink.....interesting. Might get a lot of attention at car shows, lol. Sorry dude, not laughing at your pain. At least you didn't have to strip the old paint, yeah?
You having nice weather this week? It's perfect down here in central Illinois. Getting a lot of driving in (not rubbing it in).
Lol - yeah great cruising weather! Jealous! Soon! - so I never heard ... after all your work ... how’s she ride? Liking the tubulars?
July 15th, 2019, 06:22 AM
