HELP! Which front coil springs on '69 Cutlass S conv with '67 442 big block?
December 17th, 2013, 06:06 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: near Amsterdam
Posts: 5
HELP! Which front coil springs on '69 Cutlass S conv with '67 442 big block?
Hi Olds tech guys,
I've got a 1969 Cutlass S convertible with a 1967 442 big block 400ci and a TH400 transmission. I've had it for 2 months now and only drove it for 30 miles (!) on the day of purchase untill the freshly rebuilt block came to a GRINDING hold because the stupid dumb *** I bought it from thought it was a good idea to also paint the INNER side of the oil pan. Driving on the freeway I had to force the trans into neutral to get safely to the road shoulder thru 2 lanes and between big containertrucks. No oil pressure warning light lit up while driving (tested afterwards and seemed OK) and the test drive I did a week before purchase also went smooth.
Loose paint flakes had clogged the oil pickup screen and resulted in very little oil circulation. The crank turned out to be deeply grooved, beyond repair, so now I'm waiting for a new crank shaft to fly in from the USA.
Seller first seemed to be sincere with his concerns, but after pulling open the block I confronted him with his Picasso freakshow and now he doesn't pick up his phone anymore. Probably is gonna be a 3-4k repair!
I've never been conned in my 49 years, but now hit the grand prize and hole-in-one. Seller and his rebuild-shop guy put up a conspiracy show.
After fruitless attempts to get at least a split in the repair costs, now I'm trying to focuss on the future.
I considered swapping to an overhauled 455 long block, but since the 400 is a sought-after shortstroke E-block with C-heads it's worth rebuilding.
I'm also looking at upgrading the front end for improved braking & steering behaviour and a lower stance.
Alreading got myself a MBM disc brakes upgrade kit (with 2" dropped spindles) and tubular control arms but am puzzled about which coil springs to order. I cannot rely on measuring the old springs, because 1 of them has studs between the coils and they are probably the springs that came with the original 350 small block. Want them replaced because left and right springs are not symmetrical in stiffness and also the front tires are worn more on the outside.
According to '69 specs Cutlass S should be 3310 lbs and 442 about 3517 lbs, so without the 442's heavier suspension/drive train I guess my front end is about 100-150 lbs heavier than the original Cutlass S.
Sorry about the long story; HERE'S MY QUESTION:
Suppliers where I inquired are also puzzled.
Since I already lower the front 2" by using dropped spindles I need stock height springs, but which ones? 11 or 12" installation height? Regular or heavy duty?
For instance MOOG part #
5450 (12" heavy duty for big block 442)
5390 (11" for big block 442 and Cutlass Coupe)
5374 (11" for small block Cutlass conv, 442 conv and F85)
HELP! ANY ADVICE IS MOST WELCOME!
Thanks a lot,
Jaap
The Netherlands
I've got a 1969 Cutlass S convertible with a 1967 442 big block 400ci and a TH400 transmission. I've had it for 2 months now and only drove it for 30 miles (!) on the day of purchase untill the freshly rebuilt block came to a GRINDING hold because the stupid dumb *** I bought it from thought it was a good idea to also paint the INNER side of the oil pan. Driving on the freeway I had to force the trans into neutral to get safely to the road shoulder thru 2 lanes and between big containertrucks. No oil pressure warning light lit up while driving (tested afterwards and seemed OK) and the test drive I did a week before purchase also went smooth.
Loose paint flakes had clogged the oil pickup screen and resulted in very little oil circulation. The crank turned out to be deeply grooved, beyond repair, so now I'm waiting for a new crank shaft to fly in from the USA.
Seller first seemed to be sincere with his concerns, but after pulling open the block I confronted him with his Picasso freakshow and now he doesn't pick up his phone anymore. Probably is gonna be a 3-4k repair!
I've never been conned in my 49 years, but now hit the grand prize and hole-in-one. Seller and his rebuild-shop guy put up a conspiracy show.
After fruitless attempts to get at least a split in the repair costs, now I'm trying to focuss on the future.
I considered swapping to an overhauled 455 long block, but since the 400 is a sought-after shortstroke E-block with C-heads it's worth rebuilding.
I'm also looking at upgrading the front end for improved braking & steering behaviour and a lower stance.
Alreading got myself a MBM disc brakes upgrade kit (with 2" dropped spindles) and tubular control arms but am puzzled about which coil springs to order. I cannot rely on measuring the old springs, because 1 of them has studs between the coils and they are probably the springs that came with the original 350 small block. Want them replaced because left and right springs are not symmetrical in stiffness and also the front tires are worn more on the outside.
According to '69 specs Cutlass S should be 3310 lbs and 442 about 3517 lbs, so without the 442's heavier suspension/drive train I guess my front end is about 100-150 lbs heavier than the original Cutlass S.
Sorry about the long story; HERE'S MY QUESTION:
Suppliers where I inquired are also puzzled.
Since I already lower the front 2" by using dropped spindles I need stock height springs, but which ones? 11 or 12" installation height? Regular or heavy duty?
For instance MOOG part #
5450 (12" heavy duty for big block 442)
5390 (11" for big block 442 and Cutlass Coupe)
5374 (11" for small block Cutlass conv, 442 conv and F85)
HELP! ANY ADVICE IS MOST WELCOME!
Thanks a lot,
Jaap
The Netherlands
December 17th, 2013, 07:17 PM
#2
72 Olds CS
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
thats a good question Jaap
I went w the 5450 fr and the 5385 rr both of these are listed as HD so they should be a complimentary set.
Once installed I found the rear of the car to be lower than I wanted so I added a 1" spacer from ebay to raise the backa little, now the car sits good.
you have the 2"drop spindles for the front so you proabably wont have that issue!
I went w the 5450 fr and the 5385 rr both of these are listed as HD so they should be a complimentary set.
Once installed I found the rear of the car to be lower than I wanted so I added a 1" spacer from ebay to raise the backa little, now the car sits good.
you have the 2"drop spindles for the front so you proabably wont have that issue!
December 17th, 2013, 07:24 PM
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 41,060
Welcome, sorry to hear of your engine troubles. Hopefully some of the other guys will chime in with what springs they used for their cars and some pictures. You also might consider adjustable coil over shocks for your setup.
December 18th, 2013, 02:58 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: near Amsterdam
Posts: 5
Hi RetroRanger,
Thanks for your advice. What car do you drive?
My front tires are worn more on the outsides, so I reckon the stance in the recent past was too high, resulting in a positive camber.
I thought a little negative camber is desirable for better cornering stability.
Thus I might better grab a 11" coil in stead of 12"
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Thanks all!
Thanks for your advice. What car do you drive?
My front tires are worn more on the outsides, so I reckon the stance in the recent past was too high, resulting in a positive camber.
I thought a little negative camber is desirable for better cornering stability.
Thus I might better grab a 11" coil in stead of 12"
If I'm wrong please correct me.
Thanks all!
December 18th, 2013, 02:40 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 14,707
Here's some spring info I posted a long time ago:
Below is information from the Moog catalog for multiple springs the same vehicle (70-72 Cutlass in this case).
> 5390 small block - no AC
> wire diameter = 0.650"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1952 pounds
> rate per inch = 336 pounds
> free height = 16.808"
>
> 5382 big block - no AC, small block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2066 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 16.724"
>
> 5400 big block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2167 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 17.004"
>
> 5536 442 small block - AC - heavy duty, 442 big block - no AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1984 pounds
> rate per inch = 488 pounds
> free height = 15.063"
>
> 5450 small block - AC - heavy duty, big block - no AC - heavy duty, -442 big block - AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 12.000"
> load = 1642 pounds
> rate per inch = 454 pounds
> free height = 15.616"
Below is information from the Moog catalog for multiple springs the same vehicle (70-72 Cutlass in this case).
> 5390 small block - no AC
> wire diameter = 0.650"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1952 pounds
> rate per inch = 336 pounds
> free height = 16.808"
>
> 5382 big block - no AC, small block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2066 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 16.724"
>
> 5400 big block - AC
> wire diameter = 0.660"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 2167 pounds
> rate per inch = 360 pounds
> free height = 17.004"
>
> 5536 442 small block - AC - heavy duty, 442 big block - no AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 11.000"
> load = 1984 pounds
> rate per inch = 488 pounds
> free height = 15.063"
>
> 5450 small block - AC - heavy duty, big block - no AC - heavy duty, -442 big block - AC - heavy duty
> wire diameter = 0.690"
> load height = 12.000"
> load = 1642 pounds
> rate per inch = 454 pounds
> free height = 15.616"
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
atkinsom
General Discussion
32
June 10th, 2013 01:12 PM
