Stefano

?


"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions"

2blu442

OK, sorry for the confusion but I'm the moderator that deleted the thread. The OP posted to learn about the car for his friend. The seller became upset with the OP for the thread. The OP asked me to delete it hoping it would calm things down. He gave me permission to share these details with you all.

The seller obviously knows about this forum. I hope he realizes that if the OP didn't start this thread then likely someone else would have. There's several old threads discussing rare cars on ebay to support that idea.

As far as what the moderators do I agree with Eric that its the OP's thread and if he asks one of us to delete it then we should. Concerning lost information, I think you guys have captured it well in this thread.

I'm still working too many hours doing fire support, but wanted to take a moment to clarify.

John

1969w3155

If the seller had a legitimate W31, then he had nothing to worry about, if he is pissed off about presenting a car as something than what it really is, then he should be outed.

steverw

Maybe the OP is the seller and he just put it up the way he did to see how the car would fare. When it got picked apart he pulled it to keep it away from potential buyers, or he learned what he need to do to make it more correct. Anyone could say this is my buddies car, or my buddies interested in this car, or im selling this for a friend. If hes really a Buick guy maybe he didnt know much about Olds... lol but hes learning now. He learned alot more about how to clone one, and how not to clone one.

Stefano

If the seller of the eBay car is, according to info posted here, the same seller /owner of the Blue Canadian Docs Ram Rod, then he is a member here.

So why all the clandestine cloak and dagger drama?

I can say that I have seen the Ram Rod and it was a stone cold bargain at the price it sold for!

66trakpak

I was the owner of the RamRod my friend lists cars for sale and sold mine for me. He is also currently selling this W31 for another friend of mine. I can also say the car is beautiful and the restoration was nicer on this car than my RamRod was. I've stayed quiet about this thread but figured I should let people know I've seen the car regularly over the past 20 years or so. I've watched it change hands between two of my friends. He is selling a car that has a quality restoration that was built the way the person who restored it preferred.

Hairy Olds

So I guess the $200.00 question is, is it a real deal W-31?

66trakpak

No one know for sure. There are no documents, I say take it for what it is. A beautifully restored car.

wr1970

Thank you for posting what you know about the car. You are right that car is a beautifully restored car.

oldsmobiledave

Can you shed some light on why the car does not have sport mirrors?

66trakpak

I was told during restoration the owner chose those mirrors over the sport mirrors. He was going for the stripped down look.

oldsmobiledave

Or maybe because it never had sport mirrors.......hmmm.

66trakpak

Guess we will never know Dave. Just like the Bigfoot sighting...Lol.

2blu442

I would feel a lot better if the seller included language like this in the auction. As I read through it the impression is given that the car is the real deal W31 option. Nice car or not, the seller should be upfront saying that it may or may not be a factory W31 car.

2blu442

OK, I guess I'll get the owner of this car mad at me now.

What does this mean?
"1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass W-31"

Does this mean its a W-31 or it MAY be a W-31?

What does this mean?
"1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass/442/W-31/NM/4sp/ W27/ Nut/Bolt Resto/ NAT SHOW WINNER"

Does the NM in this line mean Numbers Matching? Does the car have the correct carburetor, distributor, alternator, harmonic balancer that a factory W31 would have on it? Yes its a beautiful car, but is this description accurate?

Mr. Seller, if you purchased a car advertised as a W car and paid over $40,000 for it, then decided it wasn't correct, how would you feel? Would you shrug it off or get angry and start talking to a lawyer? Are you confident that the buyer of this car will be happy with his purchase?

Diego

A connection?

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.ph...someone-I-know

1968_Post

If I am in the market for a rare classic muscle car and I'm not equipped, aware and informed enough to make an intelligent purchase, then I have no business being in that market. Due diligence is the antidote for misrepresentation. Do your homework, learn your product and make smart decisions. If not, someone like this seller will fulfill his goals at your expense.

Rallye469

That post on the Buick board does seem super familiar if you followed this thread.

"Buddy" code or not...he's a car guy first.
But if he's a seller first, he should live and die by his integrity.
Misrepresentation hurts us all.

Screw the seller. The poster did the right thing by us all.

-Pete

Stefano

Fraud sucks, but suff like this unfortunately happens all the time. If you are the seller and know something material about the sale but do not disclose it then you are being complicit.

Yes, buyer beware and all that stuff, but manipulating parts, stampings and or facts is fraud and anyone, no matter how much they know can be defrauded.

I applaud those who take a stand and call out fraud!

Diego

To a point - not taking the poster to task here, but what if the car is not a fake? Why should the seller have his car's reputation sullied by a number of keyboard kommandos?

Like many things, perhaps it's all about the approach.

Buick64203

For the record, all I did was post a thread about a car that's for sale on a public auction site and asked for the input of people in the know. Its done countless times on here and other boards. THAT'S IT.


Your right Diego. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut. Lesson learned

oldsmobiledave

When a car is advertised for sale and the ad is skewed to imply that it is a W machine but no proof is provided to verify the pedigree then the seller is up to no good. I don't care if that comes across as insensitive or politically incorrect. My moral compass will always be able to discern right from wrong and I can deal with the consequences for taking a stand. Buyer beware always but shame on sellers who willfully mislead potential buyers.

Diego

I think suggesting a lack of documentation means a seller is up to no good is an unfair characterization.

FWIW, I'm not suggesting that the OP was a Keyboard Kommando. Rather, the subsequent lynch mob can be.

Koda

The burden is upon the seller to prove that the car is what he/she claims it to be. If it's claimed to be a w-31, then he should provide documentation. If he claims it to be a numbers matching Cutlass that appears to be a W-31, then he should provide before restoration pictures of everything. If he just claims it to be a numbers matching Cutlass, then you point to the codes on the car.

People's levels of satisfaction as to legitimacy will vary. If I found a car, unrestored, with all the parts showing equal levels of patina, especially being sold by a none-car person for a good deal, then I'd be satisfied without paperwork. However, a restored car, asking big money, sold by a dealer, needs to be proven out before sale. It's not sullying someone's reputation by saying that they should provide documentation for their claims, because, if a seller doesn't, they're either ignorant of the need to do so, or unscrupulous, neither of which is the hallmark of a good dealer.

1969w3155

Buick, I don't think that anyone here was implying that you represented this car as a W31, our issue was with the seller.