Inside fender supports
February 25th, 2011, 06:19 AM
#1
NOVICE car nut
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
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Inside fender supports
Hey , I thought I would ask the experts on this matter....I once again need to take fenders off and deal with a little rust behind the brace spot welded to the inside of the fender... my ideas now are to remove brace from fender , so i can get to all the rust spots that i cant normally get to. I dont weld so someone would have to spot weld this piece back on. question 1 , whats a good drill bit / technique for this job , and why did GM leave big holes where fender bolts up near the windshield , so all the leaves could blow down into fender ? I use an air compressor every year to get any leaves and helicopters that do get down there , a more permanent solution is to put a plastic or metal screen so nothing can fall inside fender anymore.... thanks in advance
February 25th, 2011, 11:57 AM
#3
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Doubtful that your local hardware store will sell the spot weld cutting drill bit. That's likely a specialty item from someone like Eastwood Company or similar. It can't hurt to check with your local stores as some independents may carry it but I'd be surprised.
As for removing the brace, the first thing I would do is to drill a couple of 1/8" holes that go through the fender flange and the brace and do this where there are not any spot welds. Put a coupld of wheel opening molding screws or similar through these holes as this will give you a perfect reference to put the brace back exactly where it was originally by using these srews to align everything during re-assembly. Depending on the spot weld cutter you buy, you may have to drill a small hole through the center of the spot weld to guide the bit so it doesn't walk all over the place. That little hole in the brace should be welded closed before the brace goes back on but be sure you don't weld the alignment screw holes closed. Whoever does your welding will need to use a mig and not a spot welder as the cutting bit you use to remove the spot weld will leave a hole the size of the bit in the fender flange. That's OK as it makes for a nice plug weld because when the the hole is welded shut it's also welded to the fender brace to secure everything back together. Put a good epoxy primer on the back of the brace and fender to seal that metal before you re-attach the brace.
As for removing the brace, the first thing I would do is to drill a couple of 1/8" holes that go through the fender flange and the brace and do this where there are not any spot welds. Put a coupld of wheel opening molding screws or similar through these holes as this will give you a perfect reference to put the brace back exactly where it was originally by using these srews to align everything during re-assembly. Depending on the spot weld cutter you buy, you may have to drill a small hole through the center of the spot weld to guide the bit so it doesn't walk all over the place. That little hole in the brace should be welded closed before the brace goes back on but be sure you don't weld the alignment screw holes closed. Whoever does your welding will need to use a mig and not a spot welder as the cutting bit you use to remove the spot weld will leave a hole the size of the bit in the fender flange. That's OK as it makes for a nice plug weld because when the the hole is welded shut it's also welded to the fender brace to secure everything back together. Put a good epoxy primer on the back of the brace and fender to seal that metal before you re-attach the brace.
February 25th, 2011, 12:52 PM
#4
NOVICE car nut
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Milwaukee Wisconsin
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Doubtful that your local hardware store will sell the spot weld cutting drill bit. That's likely a specialty item from someone like Eastwood Company or similar. It can't hurt to check with your local stores as some independents may carry it but I'd be surprised.
As for removing the brace, the first thing I would do is to drill a couple of 1/8" holes that go through the fender flange and the brace and do this where there are not any spot welds. Put a coupld of wheel opening molding screws or similar through these holes as this will give you a perfect reference to put the brace back exactly where it was originally by using these srews to align everything during re-assembly. Depending on the spot weld cutter you buy, you may have to drill a small hole through the center of the spot weld to guide the bit so it doesn't walk all over the place. That little hole in the brace should be welded closed before the brace goes back on but be sure you don't weld the alignment screw holes closed. Whoever does your welding will need to use a mig and not a spot welder as the cutting bit you use to remove the spot weld will leave a hole the size of the bit in the fender flange. That's OK as it makes for a nice plug weld because when the the hole is welded shut it's also welded to the fender brace to secure everything back together. Put a good epoxy primer on the back of the brace and fender to seal that metal before you re-attach the brace.
As for removing the brace, the first thing I would do is to drill a couple of 1/8" holes that go through the fender flange and the brace and do this where there are not any spot welds. Put a coupld of wheel opening molding screws or similar through these holes as this will give you a perfect reference to put the brace back exactly where it was originally by using these srews to align everything during re-assembly. Depending on the spot weld cutter you buy, you may have to drill a small hole through the center of the spot weld to guide the bit so it doesn't walk all over the place. That little hole in the brace should be welded closed before the brace goes back on but be sure you don't weld the alignment screw holes closed. Whoever does your welding will need to use a mig and not a spot welder as the cutting bit you use to remove the spot weld will leave a hole the size of the bit in the fender flange. That's OK as it makes for a nice plug weld because when the the hole is welded shut it's also welded to the fender brace to secure everything back together. Put a good epoxy primer on the back of the brace and fender to seal that metal before you re-attach the brace.
Thanks for the input , learned something new already
, I was wondering about one other thing.....I only put one coat of POR 15 on inside trunk pockets and along wheel well lips....I should of read instructions better i guess , cause it says to put multiple coats on ...so can i re-coat over that after a year went by ? couldnt find a definate answer on that one , so any input on this would be appreciated.
February 25th, 2011, 01:22 PM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
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Sorry, I've never used the POR products so I am not familiar with their application. BTW, should have mentioned earlier after the brace is welded in place, remove the screws and weld those small holes closed. Good luck.
February 25th, 2011, 02:35 PM
#6
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,662
Post picures of the rust. I spot weld cutter is usually not the best way to go in this case. grind the outside metal away at the spot welds is much quicker.
Here is a fender repair I documented recently. Go down to the bottom of the page.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...1-10-a-10.html
Here is a fender repair I documented recently. Go down to the bottom of the page.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...1-10-a-10.html
February 25th, 2011, 04:52 PM
#8
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Gearheads, he is removing the complete rear brace on the fender, top to bottom, so he can access the area covered by the brace. Once he cleans and protects that normally hidden area, the brace will go back on. Grinding away the metal is not the way to do this since no pieces are being sacrificed. A spot weld cutting tool is the way to go.
February 25th, 2011, 06:57 PM
#9
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,662
Gearheads, he is removing the complete rear brace on the fender, top to bottom, so he can access the area covered by the brace. Once he cleans and protects that normally hidden area, the brace will go back on. Grinding away the metal is not the way to do this since no pieces are being sacrificed. A spot weld cutting tool is the way to go.
February 25th, 2011, 08:33 PM
#10
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once I get fender off , I will post pics of rust....this may be awhile though , was planning to do this when weather gets nice. also , there is a decent size hole there that i filled with bondo like 6yrs ago ....so the rust is mainly on the inner part of the brace now and of course the edges where the bondo started to seperate.....this is the reason i think the brace may have to come off , or at least part of it , in order to get to the affected area....not much room between brace and fender to get at rust
Last edited by oldsguybry; February 25th, 2011 at 08:41 PM.
February 26th, 2011, 06:25 AM
#11
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My advice comes from experience as I have done exactly as he is describing. I had a 69 442 fender that had rot in the bottom that weakened the lower section of the brace. In evaluating the repair on the brace, I also noted there was other surface rust on the back side of the fender skin trapped between the brace and fender. So I removed the brace, rebuilt the lower section of the brace and fender, cleaned up the inside of the fender, epoxy primed everything and welded it back together. While grinding metal away at the lower area to eliminate the welds if rust is there is fine, it is not the way to deal with the spot welds on the solid peices of metal and where the majority of those welds will be. I'm just trying to point out how this should be done as the suggestion of grinding away the spot welds implied to do it for all of the spot welds.
The bottom line was I felt this was a much better repair and would last much longer than leaving everything together to weld in patches. It's more work but worth it in the end. Also, all metal work is covered with a skim coat of fiberglass filler first as it is waterproof. Bondo is not. Sand the FG filler and then use Bondo to do the final repair. In the end, you shouldn't need to repair that area again.
The bottom line was I felt this was a much better repair and would last much longer than leaving everything together to weld in patches. It's more work but worth it in the end. Also, all metal work is covered with a skim coat of fiberglass filler first as it is waterproof. Bondo is not. Sand the FG filler and then use Bondo to do the final repair. In the end, you shouldn't need to repair that area again.
February 26th, 2011, 07:39 AM
#12
NOVICE car nut
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yea , i realize how much fun it will be getting all the spot welds removed , im glad i only have to do this with the fender , and not the rear quarters or something. You guys are a huge help already , and i appreciate it.....will post some pics on this matter , and I also plan on doing frame off resto as soon as i have a decent place to do it....I will have lots more questions.
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