Working to determine what transmission choice to go with for my 50 Chevy pickup with Olds 455 project. I got a TH375 with the engine purchase deal. I also have a 3.73 gear S-10 ZR@ rearend which is the big 8.5 10-bolt style; sufficiently strong for the 455 torque. So the obvious problem is the 3.73 gear and no OD. Since the TH375 is a less than normal TH400 I have considered going with a different OD trans. Choices are within reason:
1) 200-4R (or some call 200R4): has the BOP bellhousing pattern, can be built up to withstand the 455 torque which means more money, has hydraulic valve body and only needs 12v for converter lockup, needs TV cable, fairly small case size to minimize trans hump inside cab.
2) 700R4: requires adapter since all 700R4 are Chevy bellhousing pattern, requires some built up to handle the 455 torque, has hydraulic valve body and only needs 12v for converter lockup, needs TV cable, slightly larger case size for trans hump than 200-4R.
3) 4L80E: requires adapter since all 4L80E are Chevy bellhousing pattern, strong as built and no need for beefing up, has electronic valve body and requires a separate computer to operate, biggest case size and therefore largest trans hump inside cab.

So what have some of you done to add an OD trans to your cars? I'm kind of leaning to go with the 200-4R option as it will fit best and can use the money for bellhousing adapter toward rebuilding and beefing up the trans. Would need to factor in core cost since do not have one. I do have a 700R4 on my garage floor, but it's broken internally I think the 3-4 drum? Regardless it needs to be rebuilt also. Don't have a 4L80E, and the computer to run the trans is $600 or so cost.

Thanks for any thoughts or experience adding an OD trans to Olds 455.

 

Option 4) is use the TH375 and then either regear the ZR-2 rearend, or use another rearend with taller gears around 3.00 range or so. I would rather go with an OD trans and have the lower rear gear for acceleration, then OD for highway cruising.

 

Option 5: Keep the 3.73s and don't use an OD. These engines were designed to run all day long at 70 MPH and 3500 RPM. How, exactly, do you plan to use the truck? If you absolutely MUST have an OD, get a 4L80E and don't look back. The 4L80E is a TH400 with an OD gear set between the pump and the rest of the trans. I've had the internals of a TH400 and a 200-4R (which is what GM calls them) side-by-side, and there is no comparison in beefiness. Remember that the 200-4R is derived from the TH200, which was originally born under the H-body cars with that Vega 4 cylinder. By the time you spend all the money on the special internal parts to make the 200-4R live, you can easily pay for the 4L80E. More importantly, the last time I built a 200-4R a couple of years ago, several of the internal parts like the select-fit washers needed to set axial clearances are no longer available.

 

Buy once, cry once. Either live with no overdrive, or use a 4l80.

Everything Joe said is spot on. It’s been 10 years since I worked on a 2004R, parts were hard to find then. I have little doubt it’s gotten worse. While I have no problem using a basically stock 2004R behind a mild big block (with the right hydraulic upgrades!) eventually the input housing is going to break. That’s basically the cost of the transmission controller. It takes LOTS of trail and error to get the WOT shift points where you want them, and that’s assuming you have one of the more desirable valve bodies. If it’s the common low performance valve body, forget it. It’s always going to short shift. The ability to program exact shift points with a 4l80 is a huge advantage.

If the goal is to have some fun with the car (obviously that’s the goal, why else would someone use a 455??) make it a worry free as possible.

 

You could also get a Gear Vendors unit.

https://gearvendors.com/index.html

 

I have wondered about different transmissions for my '49 Olds Coupe and a 425 Olds engine. Those later transmissions can be built to some level of strength, depending on how much you want to spend. Brute strength is a 4L80E !

I am planning on using a 4L80E which is bigger and heavier. But it never needs to be pulled for repairs. I have several "pumpkins" with 3.08 to 4.11 "Anti Spin" gear sets. If I decided to build a 500" Olds engine to drop in, I wouldn't want wonder if the transmission could last.
.....Just my two cents worth.

 

The ZR2 rear will have the G80 gov-lock carrier. Do yourself a favor and swap that for a conventional clutch type carrier or a detriot locker. The gov-lock actually works ok for its intended purpose but it will not last on the street with a hot motor.

I also recommend a 4l80e. Its 10x the trans that the 2004r can ever be. You won't regret it.

 

I couldn’t disagree more. There are 9 second Buick GN’s running that same 200-4r. Get ahold of Dr Dan on here. He can set you up with the right trans.

 

You've got a lot of room under that truck maybe look into a Tremec TKX 5-speed, or Magnum 6-speed? Big block with OD manual trans and 3.73 gears would be fun.

 

My think was with Joe’s option 5.
Do you really need and OD? That truck can fit some pretty tall rear tires. Figure out your final drive ratio with a 28 inch tall set of tires and see if you could live with the RPM.

 

The right trans for you is also about what you want from the truck. The 4L80 does not have a very low first gear compared to the 700r4 and 200-4r. Also, the ratio step between 1st and 2nd on the 200-4r and 700r4 are different from each other and can impact drivability and performance. The 4l80 is ready to go as is for your engine but the other two will need some upgrades.

 

Yeah, you can build a 200-4R to live, but at what cost compared to a 4L80E. The internals are still much smaller in diameter, and you can't easily install larger diameter rotating parts, so you are stuck with high dollar, high strength materials instead. Sure it can be done.

 

I agree on the 2004R. I’ve had three customers go with the 200 over any other. all three used Extreme Automatics out of Ohio. Lonnie is one of the best in the business and great to deal with. He does not upsell anyone.
my latest customer went with their stage II version which is rated for max 750hp/600 TQ. none of them have had any issues. they also make a 1,000 max HP version. They come with a 1 year warranty and a lifetime refresh to original owner for $750
Racing it doesn’t void warranty either.

the benefits of the 200 over the 4L80E is lower cost to build, no external electronic box needed to control trans, much lighter and a smaller external case and no block to trans adapter required .

core charge for the 200 is $250, vs $650 for the 4L. Converters for the 4L are also more expensive.

 

Stop the world, I actually agree with Dale.

jerry

 

Im surprised, the Extreme Automatic 750hp/600 torque rated 2004R is 3000 bucks. That’s cheaper than I expected by a considerable margin.

 

Yeah, as said, either a 2004R built by someone like Extreme Automatics or Dr Dan or a 4L80E. The Transdapt adapter is decent decent but $100. The van converters behind 6L LS V8's stall in the low to mid 2000's, mine is a 2100 flash rpm. The $20 plug in Amazon controllers work without cutting anything except the lock up converter, at least on my trans. The 4L80E is massive and heavy compared to the 2004R.

 

yep, and it’ll take everything thrown at it.

 

When I did my trans swap 11 years ago, my plans for my 350 were in the low 400/400 range, so I went w/ a CK Performance built 200-4R rated for 500/500 at around $2100 that left me with comfortable margin. The bolt-in swap w/ only minor mods required was very attractive. Now that my SBO plans evolved to now include Mark's stroker crank, I'm looking at closer to the 500/500 range of output, putting my trans on the "hairy edge". So I'm going to be exercising my fingers keeping them crossed whenever I go to WOT. If it don't break, great. If it does, its good to know that a beefier version is (currently) available that can handle my new motor and bolt-in. However, it is concerning that 200-4R cores are drying up and getting strong built ones is getting more expensive. If I ever have to abandon the 200-4R, I'll likely just go w/ a TH400 because I really don't want to have to deal with tunnel mods and a controller to use a 4L80. If necessary, a gear-vendor OD can be added to that.

 

There's a reason for that...
The TH400 is massive and heavy compared to the TH200.

 

The Amazon controller sounds intriguing; does it simply apply the solenoids to allow you to shift manually? I can't imagine for $20 it would have any shift logic to automatically control the transmission pressures and shift timing.

 

Absolutely, my low mile 4L80E GM reman with a 2100 stall reman van converter cost me about 1/4 the cost of a built 2004R . I really like the 2004R but stock or even mildly modified would not cut it. I abandoned my 2004R when CK Performance sent me a junk expensive high performance pump. I had to dent the floor pretty good to clear the center cooler lines on this later 4L80E, I went with the Amazon braided lines in 70", so far no issues. The 4L80E will laugh at 400 HP and 450 TQ and the Holley X Max to control it, if I send it back to Holley to fix it.

 

Yes, only manual shifting. It works flawlessly except lock up tried two, to make sure. It takes some searching for instructions, some have them included in the pics for the controller on Amazon.

 

The parasitic losses through a 400T and the 80E are a lot higher than the 200. that’s a well known fact. so it’s not just the physical weight of the trans, it’s the HP required to turn the internals.

 

And for the track, that's important. For the OP's street cruiser truck build, likely durability matters more.

 

4l80Es can be had all day on Craigslist for 350-500 bucks. No searching for a core or shipping/traveling for one. Your local yard has dozens of them.

Any local builder can do one in their sleep and likely has all the parts in stock. The last bench build I had done was around 1200 bucks, this was before covid though. No need to source a specialist builder or use exotic parts. Last I heard the billet input shafts for the 200 were on backorder for most of the summer. Also no need to pay to ship the trans back and forth anywhere.


The adapter plate is so easy to install it's not even worth mentioning as a negative.

Yep, its big and heavy and burns more HP. It's worth it, on the street or at the track.

Yep, all this can be done with a 200, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I was briefly in the turbo regal world, and I knew of a lot of guys who were deep into the 10s and 9s. Lots of those cars had 400s swapped already. Folks in that crowd didn't care much about the cost of doing business either...

 

I forgot about this customer. he’s using the 700R4 with the adapter plate. over 10 years so far and all good. he takes it to the track twice a year and puts tons of street miles on it every year

mild 455

 

+1 for the Extreme Automatics Stage 2 2004R - I have one in my 70 Supreme behind my 374 SBO w/3.90 rear and an R&R 9.5” 3000-3200 non-lockup converter ​​​​​. I'm very happy with it and Lonnie was great to work with. It's been about 5 years, around 12k hard miles with lots of WOT 5900 RPM shifts. I'm only around a max of 400/400 now but hoping to be 500+/500+ soon with my new 427 upgrade with the 4" stroker crank and SBO heads hopefully in 2026. Still a fun car to drive now as it is.

-Joe

 

Correct, one of the first trans designed for less parasitic drag= better fuel economy and more power to the wheels.

 

Also correct and more important in the end.

 

So many aren't so lucky with the 700R4 through 4L70E, even with all the upgrades.

 

it matters all the time..every time the trans is connected to the engine and moving the vehicle, it matters.

my customers are making a bunch more HP&TQ than he’s making. these are all in street cars , full weight A bodies with healthy big blocks.

there is no need to use a trans that’s only going to eat HP and generate heat for no reason. that’s facts in the real world .

 

it’s got nothing to do with luck.

 

nope. that’s bs

 

^^^more real world proof^^^

another thing I forgot to say ALL their 2004R’s are dyno’d You get a proven trans with specific shift points. you can ask for any shift point you want..it’s guaranteed

 

Did Extreme do that 700R4? They must really know what they are doing building one of those trans. Our local shop, they wouldn't last behind a stock 6L. So many flaws in those trans. I almost pulled the trigger when I had the Olds powered Z71 for one of Extreme's 4L60E, then I found a local reman for $500, good enough for the mild 350. GM had a long standing TSB and because of it, remans were cheap. I would also buy longer than stock dowels and install if you go the adapter and 4L80E route. The 4L80E can be a good used trans with Transgo shift kit unlike a 2004R and last. That's what mine is, 60K reman with a Transgo shift. With this controller, it will scratch the tires at higher rpm shifts. I did multiple 2004R with Transgo shift kits and servos, they need more, none lasted long term. The governor is trial and error, I got good at making 5000+ rpm with dual pinned springs so no surprise with just first gear.

 

I'm one of those insane guys that keeps re-doing things. I've had a TH350, 200-r4 and a 4l80e. Cost isn't horribly different for the transmissions themselves, but the 4l80e controller can be the main difference.

200-4r: Pros: Physically a drop in swap other than driveshaft. Cons: gotta figure out your preferred lockup, shift tuning requires hydraulic modifications, they're getting old so some parts are getting hard to find. There are Olds-only cases from the first few years but they're a bit rare.

4l80e: Pros: Very easy to make indestructible, electronic control is completely tunable, it was produced until early 2000's so parts are still pretty easy to find. Cons: getting an Olds bellhousing means doing a Reid conversion, physical swap sometimes is easy sometimes isn't.

I prefer electric control so that's a pro for me. I never could get 2<->3 shifts right where I wanted them on the 200-4r so I went to the 4l80e. The tunnel on my '72 Cutlass needed quite a bit of "massaging" while some folks say it falls right into place.

 

Mine would have needed no clearance with a earlier 4L80E with the lines in the normal position. The braided lines with angled adapters is the best case scenario and still needed a good beating to clear. Everywhere else barely cleared but did. He will need a custom driveshaft no matter what he choses in this application. Yeah, the Holley software makes everything adjustable on a 4L80E.

 

Even at the track, reliability is important.

Who cares that the car is a tenth slower if it won’t make it to the next round?

 

Look up home made manual valve body for the 4L80. It can be done for basically the cost of a transmission pan gasket.

The normal 12v ignition feed is used to power the solenoids. Then the solenoids are grounded by the internal pressure switch when the shifter is moved. To get converter lockup requires grounding the control wire for the TCC solenoid.

 

I'm not sure what's up with mine, but the extension housing bolt area was a big problem, especially trying to get a good driveline angle. I probably could have just used a super short trans mount but would have had something crazy like7 degrees down angle. Some banging around the bellhousing made installation a bit easier but the middle left bellhousing bolt is still extremely tight. But I'm using a Reid bell which has a super thick flange and a larger, rounder shape.