Looking to replace the unipoints with an ignition module and up the coil power but keeping the original unipoint distributor.
Not interested in MSD, just a reliable trigger module to replace the points.
Not looking for the cheapest option.

 

What’s wrong with the ignition points? They do require some occasional maintenance, but unless your daily driving the car it will most likely be years before you have to mess with them again.


The only drop in ignition point conversion I’m aware of is Pertronix. Unfortunately, it seems their quality has gone downhill. There have been numerous complaints over the years.


The other option is a aftermarket ignition box, triggered by the factory points. Once the points are only used to trigger the box, they will carry a tiny fraction of the current. That means les wear, and much longer life.

Unless the tock look is absolutely critical to you, I’d strongly consider HEI. You can’t get more reliable, part are easy to find, and it’s simple.

 

How much power are you making?

 

The main reason is I see dwell variation which means distributor shaft/busing wear, its old and expected.
Also seen capacitors fail, and yes points are reliable untill they shut down for months during winter and resistance from corrosion sets in.
Wanted to keep the original proper distributor look naturally, but I could also run a hotter coil.
Lets discuss those reasons, open to all input.

 

You will not find any performance increase by going to a points replacement module or a hotter coil. The only difference you will have is not having to adjust or change the points and condenser. Points are about as reliable as you can get for an engine as long as they are maintained and you can rev a quality set to around 7500 rpm.

 

When I had my 54 Olds, I went through at least two Pertonix units. Both wound up in the trash and in my opinion that is where they all belong. I replace the distributor with a 56 model that had external adjustment points. I got genuine NOS Delco Remy points and condenser off ebay. Much of the stuff you buy from the parts store is chnesium and is junk. Please don't ask me how I know.

 

I ran Pertronix in my 64 Olds 98 years ago. It worked well but as others have said, Pertronix parts are propeitary. Plus, their build quality is questionable now. I suggest going to HEI and keeping a spare module in your glovebox. They don't seem to be very tolerant of summer heat, but at least you can find them at any auto parts store.

 

You described the module sold by M&H Electric. Of the ten or so I've installed for friends over the last 20 years, to my knowledge, none has failed. Go to http://www.breakerless.com/, they even include some press clippings.

We've had some discussions on CO about this module as well. I don't remember any unfavorable comments.

They claim the module "design compensates for worn (distributor) bearings," which would address one of your wants.

 

Why not just replace the bushings in the distributor? There have been many posts about folks doing that, and it appears to be a very straightforward simple operation.

 

These are great, unfortunately they only make an HEI style for Olds.

Progression Ignition

 

I'd jump at the Delco HEI, but its vintage incorrect.
I've liked the Delco window distributor since I was a kid.
Yes I could do the bushings and I don't know the condition of the point cam, but I do know its ancient.
Seens caps fail out of the blue just like MSD boxes and lots of no starts with oxidized points after lay up in boats for the reasons I gave.
I also lost a 400 marine engine that detonated from one of these point less kits and the manufacturer backed up the subsequent overhaul, it was RFI that messed with the timing in some unknown way I saw it on a timing light.
Thats why I was looking for a higher end kit like Gary posted
It just seemed like a simple solution vs a full overhaul of the distributor for the sake of keeping the points.
As it happens the distributor is coming out for an intake change, so I may look hard at the wear and condition then.
All good advice here, thanks for the help.

 

It's not mandatory to remove the distributor for an intake swap.

 

I have this in my son's car, It is GREAT, IMO. I will use these in all/any old car I have from now on. As linked above. For some reason I can't post the link.

Breakerless Ignition

 

You may remember my vacuum leak issues with this engine.
I ended up having to remove the intake to cut the port sides due to deformity at #5 and height problem using paper gaskets (thicker) vs the turkey tray.
I agree it can probably be done, but when I did it last I decided to pull the distributor cause it was just in the way for a clean drop installation.
I'd rather remove all interference, than do the job twice, its one bolt and out of the way.

 

Yes, thats the same one Gary posted.

Conventional ignition is 20-30k volts, HEI is 40-60k.
I'd like to run a hotter coil, and this will let me do that.
RIght now my current system runs 2 rings post discharge (sine wave ac bounces) and it could be easily 4.for a complete burn.
I'd like to hear if anybody has had a bad experience with this conversion, thats what I am trying to avoid.

 

Doesn't the voltage at which the spark occurs depend upon the plug gap? Voltage will arc across a gap at a specific voltage, regardless of what coil is on the other end of the circuit. A larger gap will require higher voltage to arc across, and a smaller gap will arc at a lower voltage.

 

Not really, the coil does. The voltage amount is determined by the ratio of primary to secondary windings. The plug gap if larger will cause a larger arc of electricity which can encourage combustion gas ignition in a more desirable manner. It is true that a smaller voltage requires a smaller gap but only because the smaller voltage cannot jump the wider gaps as efficiently, or at all.

 

Very close. The maximum voltage is determined by the coil windings. However the actual voltage across the plug may be less than the maximum voltage. When the voltage on the plug ramps up and meets the voltage required to create a spark, the spark is created and the voltage does not increase beyond that. Factors that influence the required voltage are plug gap, pressure in the cylinder, fuel mixture, spark plug cable resistance, etc... If the required voltage is more than the coil can produce then the cylinder misfires.

 

And dwell...

 

Yep, that's what I was talking about. I posed it as a question so as to not offend anyone. You can have a coil capable of 100,000 Volts but with a .035" spark plug gap it will arc at the same voltage as a coil capable of 20,000 Volts.

 

Thanks for the correction gents. I was relying on my electronics background and forgot to factor in the physics of what was happening in the cylinder.

 



 

I have heard how bad the Pertronics is. I have one of their cheapest ones in my 71 350. Been in there 10 years- been great. Of course I could have it fail and be talking the other way. I'm not really defending the pertronics just sharing my experience with it. Looks like that one in the link would be fine. I had a HEI in my car before. It required I bash in the stock air filter to fit. that was ok for a 20 year old driver- but not for a 50 year old -----, well it still is a driver......

 

Greg, yours is a typical experience for an older Pertronix module. People who report failures generally have more recently-produced examples.

Gary

 

I hear about Pertronix failing. What I have seen and read, is it will run on the resistor wire. I did it on a 72 VC. But If you do it that way, sooner or later it will fail, mine did. I read you need to run a full 12 volt to the system, even If they say it will run on less.

 

Anybody know the location of the resistor/wire in the harness so it can be eliminated?

 

It's connected to the coil+ terminal and runs to the firewall. Be sure to read the installation instructions for your unit and coil.

 

Which is not going to be fixed by an electronic module. Yes, a properly-designed electronic system can have benefits by increasing dwell over what is available from mechanical point. Unfortunately most of the drop-in systems don't really do this, they are just an electronically-switched replacement for mechanically-switched points. And if the "sitting over the winter" is a problem, 30 seconds with a point file fixes that.

People who were not alive when HEI was released don't understand that the reason why GM and other automakers went to electronic ignitions had nothing to do with performance. These systems were implemented to comply with then-new EPA requirements that cars had to meet emissions standards after 50,000 miles without a tuneup. Points could obviously never do this. The higher coil voltage was required to fire crusty 50,000 mile plugs, and the wider plug gap was to avoid the chance that deposits on the electrodes would bridge the original smaller gap.

 

The resistance wire is crimped to the coil connector along with the bypass wire that runs from the starter. Note that some aftermarket systems don't require you to remove it.

 

The Breakerless modules have been rock solid for me, both driving and racing the car, and I can't find anybody who complains about them - definitely my number 1 choice. Timing is dead steady without bounce. I've seen points corrode from sitting, the contact pads fall off, and they need checking/adjustment. That being said, I'd still use points over Pertronix or other conversions.

 

I think that’s the biggest problem with them…it clearly says must have a minimum of 12volts.

I’ve used them many many times for years , never had one come back. That’s with the built in rev limiter . In fact, I have reused some that were supposed to be bad…they were fine.

I do a lot of stock style sleeper builds where a small cap stock dizzy is required. The pertronix with built in rev limiter, good MSD cap&rotor with brass contacts, black MSD 8.5 wires with the white letters rubbed off and MSD blaster coil painted black is reliable as it gets.

😎

 

Well that one gave me whiplash lol

Taking in all "points" and opinions on this, so I went back to the instructions again.
All companies make tall claims about their products, thats why I ask end users.
My reasons for wanting this are pretty well spelled out in their feature descriptions.
As for the resistor, as I was directed back to the instructions, are to NOT remove it.
So now my head is spinning with all this back and forth.

 

How so? This particular unit is designed to operate without removing the resistor. Install (and subsequent removal after failure) is easier. It uses the stock coil, so there's zero benefit from a hotter coil. Again, all this is is an electronic on-off switch that replaces the mechanical on-off switch that was the points. I don't know what's confusing about that.

 

Well gee wiz Joe, are you reading the other posts on this?
What is confusing is I am getting conflicting comments.
I am not confused in the least how these work,
Maybe you could explain how dwell variation changes the hall effect timing window for me.

They are CLEARLY saying NOT to run this on 12v, so that all of this is what is making my head spin not to mention Luke's poat back slapping all of the features and greatness of pointless, then saying he'd rather run points lol.

 

Conflicting info from the interwebs? I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you.

Seriously, I think the manufacturer usually knows more about how their product works than the Interwebs (OK, not always - witness header manufacturers that still claim their headers don't fit Supremes...). As I noted above, SOME electronic conversions are designed to work with the resistor left in place. As for reliability of a specific product, none of these responses have enough of a sample size to be statistically meaningful. SOME electronic conversions do have features that are improvements over points, but most do not. Unfortunately your ability to get this info from each manufacturer may be limited. Extending the dwell window electronically is one benefit, but few of the replacement manufacturers even discuss this in their specs, so conservative assessment would say to assume those do not. I'll also point out yet again that NO aftermarket part has had the same level of engineering and performance/reliability testing as factory parts. Your call on whether or not that means anything to you in your reliability assessment.

 

I have used the M&H & other brand breakerless modules with absolutely no issues what so ever. Why anybody would opt for stock type points is beyond me. The breakerless modules are also known as Hall Effect modules. They bolt in,use one wire to the coil just as points do and no need to modify or remove the resistor wire in the harness. It doesn't get any easier and maintainance free than that.

 

Which is why it was suggested in post 27 to read the instructions, they are not all the same. In addition, Pertronix uses the resistance wire if you're using the stock coil, but requires 12v on the module itself.

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I picked points over pertronix because they did not leave me on the side of the road like pertonix did (more than once}. Somebody mentioned the tip coming off points. That had to be some chineseum points. I have never seen that on genuine Delco/Remy points in all my years. As far as the connection. It is really simple. Hook them up like the manufacture says. As Joe P said, they know more about their product than anybody else does. I wouldn't let my head spin; I would just use good points and condenser.

 

this is directly from pertronix site. I’ve only used the ones with built in rev limiter and aftermarket coils. Like the pertronix ones that do not need resistance feed. They need a full 12v

 

X 2 And I have double sprung the points because someone suggested it would eliminate "point bounce" at high RPM's......and it didn't make a difference on time slips at the drag strip.