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Its a Walker Quiet Flow (walker 22100), with 2 1/2 in and out, with a case length of 28 inches. It should lose even less power than the Dynomax 17749, while being quieter over time, because of its longer case...more square inches inside the case.
Thanks for the info Firewalker, our flowmaster super 44's are beginning to get to my wife and I. Need to look into something quieter next spring.
Cheers
Eric
Thanks for the info Firewalker, our flowmaster super 44's are beginning to get to my wife and I. Need to look into something quieter next spring.
Cheers
Eric
I understand. These should be very quiet when new, at idle and part throttle and decrease the loss of wide open power you normally see, with the Flowmasters. If these are a little too quiet new, then give a Turbo style muffler a little time over months or years, and they will lose some of that quietness over time usually. I think these are a great find because they should be quieter and allow more power, while only 55-65 dollars. That is cheaper than the Super Turbo Dynomax 17749 is now, which has kind of been the mainstay for quieter power over the past years.
Both are made by Walker and are the same size, except this Quietflow is 8 inches longer in this case. The Quiet Flow would have approximately 1160.25 squire inches inside, while the 17749 would be 824 inches.
My Super 44's (Black) are very quiet inside the car. Outside and when you Romp on it, they get busy. With that said they are twice as quiet than my turbo's were.
My Super 44's (Black) are very quiet inside the car. Outside and when you Romp on it, they get busy. With that said they are twice as quiet than my turbo's were.
Turbos very on quietness and flow, and they do get louder over time. Short small bodied Turbos are louder and flow less, and that's why many prefer the larger cases.
I understand. These should be very quiet when new, at idle and part throttle and decrease the loss of wide open power you normally see, with the Flowmasters. If these are a little too quiet new, then give a Turbo style muffler a little time over months or years, and they will lose some of that quietness over time usually. I think these are a great find because they should be quieter and allow more power, while only 55-65 dollars. That is cheaper than the Super Turbo Dynomax 17749 is now, which has kind of been the mainstay for quieter power over the past years.
Both are made by Walker and are the same size, except this Quietflow is 8 inches longer in this case. The Quiet Flow would have approximately 1160.25 squire inches inside, while the 17749 would be 824 inches.
I really appreciate the info on the mufflers Firewalker.
Its funny a few years back, I wanted noise, power and a thumpin' cam. I don't know what the heck happened haha, but I'm finding myself just doing more cruising and talking with the wife when we are out in our Olds.
Times are a changin'.
Cheers
Eric
I really appreciate the info on the mufflers Firewalker.
Its funny a few years back, I wanted noise, power and a thumpin' cam. I don't know what the heck happened haha, but I'm finding myself just doing more cruising and talking with the wife when we are out in our Olds.
Times are a changin'.
Cheers
Eric
I burned out an exhaust manifold biscuit on a single exhaust 396 Impala with a warm up flow valve right next to it. The car sounded mean at idle, but when you gave it gas it went silent as the valve opened up and the exhaust went through the tail pipe and muffler. Only at idle did it make that nasty sound LOL
Of course attention from the men in blue is not always good, and silence can be golden. But talking is very very very good.
Firewalker:
DId you purchase the 28" Quiet-flow mufflers? Did they fit? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks!
Purchased them, but have not put them on yet. The case is 28, but overall length is 36.5 or so. They are the same width and depth as the 17749, that so many have used over the years, just 8-10 inches longer. I can tell you, for those that want to know, it's tubes on the inside of the case are not smaller than 2.5 inches, like some are. If a yardstick will fit length wise than it should also.
I do not have an Olds chassis though and custom design my exhaust, to get what I want and do not stick with OEM designs. I plan on first putting Hooker aerochambers just before the rear, and then run my pipe up over it, and then put the Walker 2100s on just before the bumper.
Firewalker:
You can fit a 28" long muffler between the rear end and the bumper? Are you running a custom frame? I thought you were installing these in the stock location (under the back seat). Can you post some pics of your set-up?
Rodney
Firewalker:
You can fit a 28" long muffler between the rear end and the bumper? Are you running a custom frame? I thought you were installing these in the stock location (under the back seat). Can you post some pics of your set-up?
Rodney
Yep, more than 36 between the axle and the rear bumper, but not an Olds chassis. The connecting tubes can be cut shorter or slide further into the pipe getting it closer to 28 inches. Just half the diameter of my rear tires (axle) is 14 inches and another say 25 inches or more to the bumper. Remember to you can run and mount the muffler crossways behind the rear axles, like many factory cars and trucks did.
Getting them the farthest back by the bumper helps quieten them more, and both increases the power and traction.
I'm having a hard time understanding why a longer case should flow better. Internal volume is not directly related to flow rate, only to acoustic attenuation. Larger cases are typically quieter, but the flow rate depends on the internal configuration of the muffler. Does it have baffles (like a Flowmaster), a straight through angled tube (like the VT), or reverse flow (like the Dynomax Turbo). How big are the internal tubes? Are the perforated or louvered? Is there packing inside the case? These factors affect flow rate.
I'm having a hard time understanding why a longer case should flow better. Internal volume is not directly related to flow rate, only to acoustic attenuation. Larger cases are typically quieter, but the flow rate depends on the internal configuration of the muffler. Does it have baffles (like a Flowmaster), a straight through angled tube (like the VT), or reverse flow (like the Dynomax Turbo). How big are the internal tubes? Are the perforated or louvered? Is there packing inside the case? These factors affect flow rate.
Take the case of an open air header versus a muffler. Which muffler would be the closest to open air?? A big internal volume muffler I would say, and a longer distance before hitting anything in the muffler with the exhaust pulse/shot. More room for the pulse/shot to move freely and be absorbed.
The 22100 is a turbo style, just like the 17749 is. It does not look to neck down to a smaller pipe size inside either. But gas pulse going down the 22100 goes 40% further, before hitting the sound/energy deflector on the back wall of the muffler. It also has 40% more area, for the gas to escape outside the 2 1/2 tube along those 28 inches of perforated pipe. And the same increase flow, through all padding and the two other turbo 2 1/2 pipes inside, before exiting.
Lots more room, for the gases to expand and move around freer before exit. These turbo mufflers are designed like the Sonic Turbos, which were designed by David Vizard to give the highest power, while being a good muffler. Those mufflers were in a shootout in the 80s against all other mufflers then, including the infamous then factory hemi muffler, and beat all of them being only a few horse power down over open headers, and it was the quietest of them all, as well.
Walker then bought the company, and changed the name to Dynomax super turbos, and then made them into many different sizes using this design.
Here is what Jim Hand found out on his exhaust testing and the 17749s, and he is making some power.
Take the case of an open air header versus a muffler. Which muffler would be the closest to open air?? A big internal volume muffler I would say, and a longer distance before hitting anything in the muffler with the exhaust pulse/shot. More room for the pulse/shot to move freely and be absorbed.
The 22100 is a turbo style, just like the 17749 is. It does not look to neck down to a smaller pipe size inside either. But gas pulse going down the 22100 goes 40% further, before hitting the sound/energy deflector on the back wall of the muffler. It also has 40% more area, for the gas to escape outside the 2 1/2 tube along those 28 inches of perforated pipe. And the same increase flow, through all padding and the two other turbo 2 1/2 pipes inside, before exiting.
Lots more room, for the gases to expand and move around freer before exit. These muffler turbo mufflers are designed like the Sonic Turbos, which were designed by David Vizard to give the highest power, while being a good muffler. Those mufflers were in a shootout in the 80s against all other mufflers then, including the infamous then factory hemi muffler, and beat all of them being only a few horse power down over open headers, and it was the quietest of them all, as well.
Walker then bought the company, and changed the name to Dynomax super turbos, and then made them into many different sizes using this design.
Here is what Jim Hand found out on his exhaust testing and the 17749s, and he is making some power.
Sorry, but your analysis is extremely simplistic. First, what difference does the length of the internal passage have to do with anything? There is a whole exhaust pipe from the header to the muffler that swamps the length difference in the muffler itself. None of these is anything like a header in open air.
Second, the lowest restriction muffler will be the one with the most direct flow path. The angled tube styles provide this. Any internal packing or baffles negate the volume differences anyway. Sorry, but without back-to-back test data there is no way to back up your claims.
Sorry, but your analysis is extremely simplistic. First, what difference does the length of the internal passage have to do with anything? There is a whole exhaust pipe from the header to the muffler that swamps the length difference in the muffler itself. None of these is anything like a header in open air.
Second, the lowest restriction muffler will be the one with the most direct flow path. The angled tube styles provide this. Any internal packing or baffles negate the volume differences anyway. Sorry, but without back-to-back test data there is no way to back up your claims.
If those angled tubes were the best, for power, then so would the glasspacks of old, since that is all they seem to be, except with and oval shape and more volume for packing. Everything changes but nothing changes.
Not my graphic, but yeah, it really is straight through. Look again. That internal tube runs directly from inlet to outlet. It's just at an angle inside the shell.
For what its worth. The difference between my hooker aero chambers and running and open x pipe is 1 tenth in the 1/4 mile. I run the x pipe and mufflers on the street and unbolt the mufflers at the track.
You really wont feel the diffrence so the subject matter is kind of a waste of time unless you really think you will feel a 20 hp loss tops !.
Now adding headers helps alot i went from manifolds on my dads 77 pontiac to headers on the same exhaust mentioned earlier with the thrush turbo mufflers and that engine came to life really well not that it breathes better. I dont feel a diffrent muffler would help the performance in my case.
i think the subject matter i becoming splitting hairs and comparing apples to oranges.
Here is an odd story. I was running 14.0 with my small block in my 72 with open headers and 14.2 with the exhaust. I added an x pipe and ran a 13.86 through the mufflers. No more than 3 runs where made for that testing and weather was identical. The x pipe pulls exhaust out and the muffler seemed to have no ill effect on performance. Now that i created a bolt on muffler set up the diffrence is 1 tenth in e/t. Just a mid 12 sec car.
Here is an odd story. I was running 14.0 with my small block in my 72 with open headers and 14.2 with the exhaust. I added an x pipe and ran a 13.86 through the mufflers. No more than 3 runs where made for that testing and weather was identical. The x pipe pulls exhaust out and the muffler seemed to have no ill effect on performance. Now that i created a bolt on muffler set up the diffrence is 1 tenth in e/t. Just a mid 12 sec car.
Wondering if you ran it without the mufflers after installing the X pipe?
I'm not really sure how that would work. I have an X pipe on my 71 98 about a foot forward of the glasspacks. Maybe there have to be mufflers / glasspacks AND an X-pipe for there to be a benefit.
For what its worth. The difference between my hooker aero chambers and running and open x pipe is 1 tenth in the 1/4 mile. I run the x pipe and mufflers on the street and unbolt the mufflers at the track.
You really wont feel the diffrence so the subject matter is kind of a waste of time unless you really think you will feel a 20 hp loss tops !.
Now adding headers helps alot i went from manifolds on my dads 77 pontiac to headers on the same exhaust mentioned earlier with the thrush turbo mufflers and that engine came to life really well not that it breathes better. I dont feel a diffrent muffler would help the performance in my case.
i think the subject matter i becoming splitting hairs and comparing apples to oranges.
Here is an odd story. I was running 14.0 with my small block in my 72 with open headers and 14.2 with the exhaust. I added an x pipe and ran a 13.86 through the mufflers. No more than 3 runs where made for that testing and weather was identical. The x pipe pulls exhaust out and the muffler seemed to have no ill effect on performance. Now that i created a bolt on muffler set up the diffrence is 1 tenth in e/t. Just a mid 12 sec car.
Longer tubes (with exhaust), especially on a small block helping is no real surprise, as long as it gets to the ground.
Putting the mufflers all the way back is usually best, and lowers the torque curve possibly and the chance of any real loss of power.
But this was posted on the 22100 muffler find, for those wanting power with a bunch of noise, like the glasspacks have and those types of mufflers, that will get louder over time. Turbos get louder over time, as well, but start out quieter. Loud and power are not the same thing or every (original) cherry bombed car would be fast and thats not usually has been the case.
I like the aerochambers, but not at full power, and thats why I plan to use the 22100s right after them. They may also absorb the initial hit of the exhaust pulses and the carbon, and keep the turbos cleaner inside and functioning better over time. Not proven, just a concept.
