When I first start my car, it runs fine, in park, revs great to redline, then I drive. Here's some conditions:
Also, this car starts off so well, drives great, and within 5 minutes turns to CRAP! Every single time! One of two times of 100 idle sounds weird but usually good and sometimes 100% BEAUTIFUL idle sound...

I am fully stopped, I barely accelerate the pedal, it works great and will go fast, if i give a lot of certain play on the throttle, gets fast, sometimes bogs, let throttle off a tenth of an inch then put it back where it was, it fixes itself and accelerates pretty damn fast.

Car drives fast the first launches I do when turning it on, when I FLOOR it though, there is NO power. It bogs, hesitates, I have to depress the accelerator, then repress, and it kind of corrects itself with some play, and will accelerate. When it bogs it sounds so quiet and just stays the same speed and sounds like crap for 5 seconds of so, then will kind of fix itself a little.

When I FLOOR the car in neutral or PARK, it REVS LIKE A BEAUTY OLDS FROM A MUSEUM!!!!!! It will get to redline in .5 seconds from FLOORING IT ALL THE WAY, which will BOG the car in DRIVE, Accelerating, While at a stop, really any time I FLOOR IT it bogs. Except sometimes within the first 5 minutes of driving it can sometimes work.

I used to be able to burnout by BARELY touching the pedal, SMOKE EVERYWHERE!!!! Now I try that same foot play, and get BOG BOG BOG.... In neutral though, I can redline that thing all night long, and it sounds like it has never sounded before. I mean it hits WOT perfectly, it gets so loud its probably 10x louder than when DRIVING in GEAR and doing the SAME THING!!!!!!!

So hopefully I have described this enough, not to bore you guys, but to really let you know my situation. I'm guessing some TRANSMISSION LEAK / Torque Converter fix stuff from the store...

How much would a rebuild be, will this leak fix stuff work for a while? weeks days months? What converters will you recommend? When I learn from here, I teach what I've learned, so thank you guys

 

Unit is also Fuel Injected not carbed is anything looking bad in case it's not torque converter but rather this whole throttle linkage? Because when I was 16 I'd mess with things..... Like we all did... Now 24 !


Click here for images,,, so many didn't want to flood the page

 

Keep in mind in neutral I can rev this thing just as beautiful as a metaphorically brand new just produced 1972 cutlass! It sounds SO GREAT in neutral/park!!!

 

In summary I have EFI so no carb stuff. Engine works fine for like 2 revs/launches after startup. Then it SUCKS for the rest of the ride. engine revs in neutral/park to TRUE olds redline I'd say I hear 320hp!!!! When it bogs it's about 90hp!. Lay the power down in gear and it bogs accelerating, bogs from a stop and punching it, but does not bog ever if half punch it in the "SWEET SPOT". If I LAY IT DOWN HARD and dont stop, it just keeps BOGGING and BOGGING and going Putputputputtttt until after 10 seconds it somewhat clears and MIGHT accelerate a little. The only cure is RELEASE the accelerator and HALF PRESS it in the "SWEET SPOT" or it will bogbogbog and if you just keep bogging for 30 seconds it dies, but sometimes has gained power veeeeeeeeeeeery slowly out of the bog. has died once from bog, usually i just release the pedal a little bit, bog gone, but always comes back. It feels like if I push accelerator 1/2 way in slowly it accelerates fine as wine, but the faster the worse. I have a fuel injected system too...

 

When I first start my car, it runs fine, in park, revs great to redline, then I drive. Here's some conditions:
It shakes like crazy at 35 to 40 MPH exactly and goes away for the rest. Maybe a little at 20... But I've read that's torque converter? Also, this car starts off so well, drives great, and within 5 minutes turns to CRAP! Every single time! One of two times of 100 idle sounds weird but usually good and sometimes 100% BEAUTIFUL idle sound...

I am fully stopped, I barely accelerate the pedal, it works great and will go fast, if i give a lot of certain play on the throttle, gets fast, sometimes bogs, let throttle off a tenth of an inch then put it back where it was, it fixes itself and accelerates pretty damn fast.

Car drives fast the first launches I do when turning it on, when I FLOOR it though, there is NO power. It bogs, hesitates, I have to depress the accelerator, then repress, and it kind of corrects itself with some play, and will accelerate. When it bogs it sounds so quiet and just stays the same speed and sounds like crap for 5 seconds of so, then will kind of fix itself a little.

When I FLOOR the car in neutral or PARK, it REVS LIKE A BEAUTY OLDS FROM A MUSEUM!!!!!! It will get to redline in .5 seconds from FLOORING IT ALL THE WAY, which will BOG the car in DRIVE, Accelerating, While at a stop, really any time I FLOOR IT it bogs. Except sometimes within the first 5 minutes of driving it can sometimes work.

I used to be able to burnout by BARELY touching the pedal, SMOKE EVERYWHERE!!!! Now I try that same foot play, and get BOG BOG BOG.... In neutral though, I can redline that thing all night long, and it sounds like it has never sounded before. I mean it hits WOT perfectly, it gets so loud its probably 10x louder than when DRIVING in GEAR and doing the SAME THING!!!!!!!

So hopefully I have described this enough, not to bore you guys, but to really let you know my situation. I'm guessing some TRANSMISSION LEAK / Torque Converter fix stuff from the store...

How much would a rebuild be, will this leak fix stuff work for a while? weeks days months? What converters will you recommend? When I learn from here, I teach what I've learned, so thank you guys

Unit is also Fuel Injected not carbed is anything looking bad in case it's not torque converter but rather this whole throttle linkage? Because when I was 16 I'd mess with things..... Like we all did... Now 24 !


Click here for images,,, so many didn't want to flood the page


Keep in mind in neutral I can rev this thing just as beautiful as a metaphorically brand new just produced 1972 cutlass! It sounds SO GREAT in neutral/park!!!


In summary I have EFI so no carb stuff. Engine works fine for like 2 revs/launches after startup. Then it SUCKS for the rest of the ride. engine revs in neutral/park to TRUE olds redline I'd say I hear 320hp!!!! When it bogs it's about 90hp!. Lay the power down in gear and it bogs accelerating, bogs from a stop and punching it, but does not bog ever if half punch it in the "SWEET SPOT". If I LAY IT DOWN HARD and dont stop, it just keeps BOGGING and BOGGING and going Putputputputtttt until after 10 seconds it somewhat clears and MIGHT accelerate a little. The only cure is RELEASE the accelerator and HALF PRESS it in the "SWEET SPOT" or it will bogbogbog and if you just keep bogging for 30 seconds it dies, but sometimes has gained power veeeeeeeeeeeery slowly out of the bog. has died once from bog, usually i just release the pedal a little bit, bog gone, but always comes back. It feels like if I push accelerator 1/2 way in slowly it accelerates fine as wine, but the faster the worse. I have a fuel injected system too...

 

When I first start my car, it runs fine, in park, revs great to redline, then I drive. Here's some conditions:
It shakes like crazy at 35 to 40 MPH exactly and goes away for the rest. Maybe a little at 20... But I've read that's torque converter? Also, this car starts off so well, drives great, and within 5 minutes turns to CRAP! Every single time! One of two times of 100 idle sounds weird but usually good and sometimes 100% BEAUTIFUL idle sound...

I am fully stopped, I barely accelerate the pedal, it works great and will go fast, if i give a lot of certain play on the throttle, gets fast, sometimes bogs, let throttle off a tenth of an inch then put it back where it was, it fixes itself and accelerates pretty damn fast.

Car drives fast the first launches I do when turning it on, when I FLOOR it though, there is NO power. It bogs, hesitates, I have to depress the accelerator, then repress, and it kind of corrects itself with some play, and will accelerate. When it bogs it sounds so quiet and just stays the same speed and sounds like crap for 5 seconds of so, then will kind of fix itself a little.

When I FLOOR the car in neutral or PARK, it REVS LIKE A BEAUTY OLDS FROM A MUSEUM!!!!!! It will get to redline in .5 seconds from FLOORING IT ALL THE WAY, which will BOG the car in DRIVE, Accelerating, While at a stop, really any time I FLOOR IT it bogs. Except sometimes within the first 5 minutes of driving it can sometimes work.

I used to be able to burnout by BARELY touching the pedal, SMOKE EVERYWHERE!!!! Now I try that same foot play, and get BOG BOG BOG.... In neutral though, I can redline that thing all night long, and it sounds like it has never sounded before. I mean it hits WOT perfectly, it gets so loud its probably 10x louder than when DRIVING in GEAR and doing the SAME THING!!!!!!!

So hopefully I have described this enough, not to bore you guys, but to really let you know my situation. I'm guessing some TRANSMISSION LEAK / Torque Converter fix stuff from the store...

How much would a rebuild be, will this leak fix stuff work for a while? weeks days months? What converters will you recommend? When I learn from here, I teach what I've learned, so thank you guys

Unit is also Fuel Injected not carbed is anything looking bad in case it's not torque converter but rather this whole throttle linkage? Because when I was 16 I'd mess with things..... Like we all did... Now 24 !


Click here for images,,, so many didn't want to flood the page


Keep in mind in neutral I can rev this thing just as beautiful as a metaphorically brand new just produced 1972 cutlass! It sounds SO GREAT in neutral/park!!!


In summary I have EFI so no carb stuff. Engine works fine for like 2 revs/launches after startup. Then it SUCKS for the rest of the ride. engine revs in neutral/park to TRUE olds redline I'd say I hear 320hp!!!! When it bogs it's about 90hp!. Lay the power down in gear and it bogs accelerating, bogs from a stop and punching it, but does not bog ever if half punch it in the "SWEET SPOT". If I LAY IT DOWN HARD and dont stop, it just keeps BOGGING and BOGGING and going Putputputputtttt until after 10 seconds it somewhat clears and MIGHT accelerate a little. The only cure is RELEASE the accelerator and HALF PRESS it in the "SWEET SPOT" or it will bogbogbog and if you just keep bogging for 30 seconds it dies, but sometimes has gained power veeeeeeeeeeeery slowly out of the bog. has died once from bog, usually i just release the pedal a little bit, bog gone, but always comes back. It feels like if I push accelerator 1/2 way in slowly it accelerates fine as wine, but the faster the worse. I have a fuel injected system too...

 

Guys look on my pics where it shows the no air filter on OVERHEAD of the intake thing... Notice my gasket went bad the other day and there is none. I tightened the air filter very hard, so do you think air is coming in here because I don't know what this gasket is even called or where to get one for this.... maybe an idea.... car works great first 5 mins then turns awful once again tho so read everything I really tried to lay it all out for someone to help here

 

Dude, unless you have a rev limiter in your ignition, do NOT floor it in neutral / park, you'll throw a rod or do other damage. Of COURSE it will "sound" good, because there is no load on the engine.

Assuming you haven't yet caused engine damage by all that neutral revving, I'd say you have some issue w/ the EFI / ignition tuning. The vibration may be in the drive-line if it doesn't shake apart when you are revving in neutral. No shakes in neutral, probably not the torque converter. I'm sure others will chime in with better advice.

 

I merged your identical threads. You'll get a better answer more quickly if all responses are kept in one thread so everyone can see all of them.

 

I’m guessing you have TBI EFI? If so grab your handheld and look at the air/fuels etc. That’ll tell you what you’ll need to know to move forward.

 

The vibration in probably tire balance. The rest I'll bet is your EFI is not setup right. Does the EFI control timing?

 

^^x2^^

I don't know if you've ever experienced EFI Fuel Injectors going bad but your description nearly replicates the conditions I've experienced w/ fuel injectors going bad on a couple vehicles - which had OEM EFI - so, they were not converted to EFI. In particular, on my 2003 F250, when my engine lost x2 fuel injectors on the left-hand side of the engine, there would be the loss of power and it was accompanied with shaking - not violent, but serious shaking none-the-less. I could replicate this shaking behavior every single time within a certain RPM/Speed driving range - it was fine outside of a particular range, but immediately returned to the same symptoms within a specified RPM/speed driving range. Of course, simple for me, because I only needed to read the codes from the OBD2 and found the cause. I replaced all four fuel injectors on the left bank of the engine (110,000 miles) - issue solved, and back to normal. Within another 20,000 miles (130,000 miles) the F250 experienced identical symptoms once again. Read the OBD2, same codes, replaced the right-hand bank of fuel injectors and everything back to normal. So, yes, vehicle shaking, loss of power w/in a modestly narrow RPM/speed range were the symptoms on the F250 as well as another passenger vehicle. The fuel injector nozzles lose their ability to properly atomize fuel delivery and they go bad leading to very erratic engine conditions which can shake your vehicle. Check your EFI.

ON EDIT: I re-read your post, and I want to point out in addition to the above symptoms, yes - under load (in particular), the engine would bog down CONSIDERABLY, once moving, the engine would 'even out' to some degree - until you find that miserable RPM/Speed range where it all goes to $HIT again. Under load, fuel delivery and fuel injectors attempting to atomize fuel isn't sufficient, once moving less atomized fuel required and it 'feel's normal again - for awhile.

 

What computer is running the GM TBI? What is your fuel pressure? Where is the base timing set? Also what are the specs on the 455?

 

I merged your transmission thread into the ones Joe merged also.

 

Who said it was a GM TBI? FITech is a TBI. Sniper is a TBI. MSD Atomic is a TBI. TBI just means that the injectors are in the throttle body, not in the ports.

 

Thank you so much guys I have no clue why it posted 3 times the thread internet probs here's the ecu

3 times my Comcast is awful

 

Hey guys, so as regarding the shakes, that was the tires, so I eliminated the shaking part. Now it just runs like junk. I'm wondering if its the throttle cables not properly adjusted etc, I put some pics of it above

 

Is that a Holley Projection? Haven’t seen one of those in years. If I remember right each one of those dials adjust a certain certain tuning parameter. Things like choke, accelerator pump, cruise, wot, etc. can you post a better pic of the dials?

 

X2. I’ll bet this has a lot to do with your issue.
And for what it’s worth that should be tuned with a wideband, nothing else.

 

You guessed it! Holly Projection! I get so confused while tuning this, feel like I've tried a bit of everything.

 

Buy a Wideband O2, quit trying to do it without it.

 

So today I turned it on after spraying throttle body cleaner, it died instantly. I gave it more gas, black smoke EVERYWHERE, it dies unless gassed for a while. Finally got it driving , black smoke clouds whole time, it gets back to driveway without as much, restarted the car and black smoke again...

 

Uh ok so what’s your question?
My guess is either the Projection ain’t right and/or you have a consistent fuel delivery problem.
One more time, buy a wideband. It’ll tell you everything you need to know if you know what to look for.

 

I appreciate the wideband idea, yes it will be the only way to tell. I never was taught cars so learning from scratch and just got disheartened when my first weekend cruise started in nothing but black smoke bogs hesitation and stalls but every day is something i guess LOL!


So I just tried again,



When I start the car it sounds like it has a MONSTER aggressive camshaft!! vrumvrumvrum..............vrumvrumvrum............ vrumvrum with black coming out all over. It's a TBI holley Projection and I did nothing to it besides spray throttle body cleaner on it after taking air filter off, waited 5 minutes, started the car and it went from the original post, VERY driveable, to barely drives...

Black smoke comes in huge clouds, engine dies, choke thing is going up and down to keep it alive barely then dies, can put all fuel settings to 0 and still rich, so I'm going to take it to the shop guessing I have a sensor gone bad

It drove great until spraying throttle body cleaner, now it runs like a tractor pull trophy winner at idle, so I probably fried an electric component i.e. sensor ? I don't even know what kind of sensors it would have... I'm a know nothing on cars other than "spark, fuel, air" and out of that "spark" and "fuel" is still 400 miles over my head

Like I said I know nothing about cars other than playing with this engine for 2 months I am a smart kid and want to learn though, I don't make myself a victim I messed it up and take responsibility for it, am ignorant and tinker too much...

 

I'm also thinking... maybe I got distributor wet with spray? I mean I have driven it at least an hour a day this week, the original post was the ONLY issue this car had, I park it to clean the throttle body, wait 5 minutes, really did nothing else, no other variables, the spray all over it did something ?

 

I'm under the impression you did not install the Holley Projection? I might also assume you don't have the Holley Projection tuning manual which accompanied the Holley Projection? From your own statement, I summarize you don't have much experience working on vehicle engines.

With that said, keep in mind - you have what might be considered for its time, a very advanced carburetor EFI. As I read your post, you're tossing bubble gum and the problem isn't going to go away with gimmicks like spraying throttle body cleaner into a system you fundamentally don't understand.

You would serve yourself well to read the Holley Projection tuning manual in its entirety not once, but several times until you thoroughly understand how the system operates.

I'm not certain which Holley Projection model you have, you can look up the correct tuning manual yourself. Find the correct one read it and understand it.

Don't go off randomly shooting sprays where they don't belong & tossing unproven make-shift solutions at this issue until you first tune your Holley Projection as per the tuning manual. After you've convinced yourself you have it tuned spot-on, you can gain a much better understanding of what to do next. IMO, you have a serious fuel-delivery issue (and, it's probably associated with the Holley Projection EFI). But, you have to start someplace.

https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_r9895-3.pdf
https://documents.holley.com/techlibrary_r10022.pdf

 

You might want to join and search the Holley Forum, as well>>> https://forums.holley.com/

 

I really appreciate this, it is the reality of the situation, and you are right, it's time to read and read and read! I have located that document and you are right I should read it not skim it this time

 

One step at a time - small steps lead to larger steps. Be meticulous and thorough. We all started taking baby steps. You got this.

 

Matt- I blew it up just a little bit.

 

Goosebumps, thank you. This car reflects so many memories of my (now gone) grandfather.This car is magic to me, I can see and hear my grandfather at times, and it's always while I'm working on or inside the cutlass . This car was something I'd stare at as a kid for hours, would admire and drive in highschool, and now is something I will learn for the rest of my life, and keep. He would take care of this car, and later on took care of it for me, and now it is my turn to take care of it. We all have our Oldsmobile story, and that's why I love these cars so much. I couldn't give a damn about any car brand but an OLDSMOBILE. It's funny, I don't even turn my head for these modern exotics, but for an Olds I go nuts! I take pictures of all the ones I see, 2004 alero or whatever!

 

Get a copy of the tuning manual. Start by studying the book. If all else fails, ready the directions!!

 

Did you not see the pic? It is a Holley copy of GM TBI.

 

But the actual style of the TBI unit itself doesn’t mean much, it’s what’s controlling it that matters.
OP- as mentioned read the directions, make sure you have good fuel delivery throughout, then buy a wideband to actually tune it.
Remember, these units came out during the time of computer controlled carbs and “lean burn” systems. Anything would’ve been an improvement. But ask yourself 1 question, how come they quit making these years ago? The answer is obvious.

 

Now when I start it, Oil light is red, dies instantly, engine fires but dies instantly, can rev a little to keep it alive for more than 1/2 second....

The ONLY THING I DID before ALL THESE PROBLEMS was spray throttle cleaner around the TBI unit we're talking about. Before the spray, there was just bogging/hesitation at times, but drove flawless. The spray is literally the independent variable

Is this a distributor issue from the spray? The spray did whatever this issue is, 0 doubt in my mind, it was within 2 minutes of spray drying all this started, before the spray I had just driven 45 minutes on a beautiful drive and zero symptoms zero issues but a long time issue bog in the TBI system that warranted me spraying. Or does this sound more like CTS/TPS? Fires up and dies at the same moment... I soaked the whole region...

When I open the throttle body after it dies white smoke comes out We couldn't get it to idle, it really will only fire once and then dies regardless of what I do with the throttle


On a specific startup, things got weird and my A/C belt exploded completely, wrapped around fan 10 times,, it was an old/bad belt, but does this mean the TIMING also was affected, ergo this all started? Or sounds like distributor? I think this challenge will teach me how "spark" works lol

 

I suggest getting a carburetor and new fuel pump, remove the EFI.

 

Good Lord, quit dicking around with it!! Get the instructions, I’m willing to bet there is a troubleshooting guide. If it ran well before you cleaned the throttle body, it’s probably something simple.

A wideband and would be a good troubleshooting and tuning tool, I think you could get it running reasonably well without one.

 

I must agree.

 

x3.

 

Why would you suggest ripping out the fuel injection, replacing the fuel lines, reinstalling a mechanical pump, installing a carb, and all the other little things that go with it, when the OP said it ran fine before cleaning the throttle body?