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Just picked up a 400 out of a 69 442. Literally only got a fast as if get it off the trailer, but plan on tearing into it next weekend most likely. It belongs to one of the owners of the company I work for, and I am tearing into it to make sure it's still usable. He is finally looking to move his car after at least a decade in the barn and 2 years of my persistence.
That being said, what are some things to look for and follow. My engine building experience is limited to small block Mopar, so any and all tips are appreciated.
Isn't that the least desirable year(s) of the 400 due to the undersquare combustion chamber?
"Undersquare" means that the bore is smaller than the stroke. It has nothing to do with the combustion chamber. Yeah, the 3.870" bore can cause valve shrouding and flow problems with the 2.070" intake valves, but you can have small bore motors that are oversquare also.
Don't know how far you intend to tear the motor down. "Things" to look for! As with any motor, a ridge at the top of piston ring travel; if you can catch your fingernail on it, it probably needs new pistons and a bore and hone. Excess bearing wear, if you can see copper on the bearings or if they have lost their tension and fall out it needs closer inspection. If you plan to reuse the camshaft and lifters, keep the lifters in the order that they are removed; take two lifters, looking into a light source place the foot of one lifter against the flat side of the other lifter, you should see a slight crown on the foot of the lifter, check them all. "Things" to be aware of! Upper valve train is different than your LA Mopar; try to keep the rocker arm assemblies together and return them to their original positions if possible. Replacement head gaskets are going to be thicker than the original steel shim type; Felpros are about .042" thick verses about .017" for the original steel shim; thus a good reason to mill the heads to compensate. Be aware some replacement pistons may have a shorter compression distance! The original rear main seal on an Olds V8 is a rope type seal and is best replaced with the rubber type seal. Do not lose the oil gallery plugs and make sure to return them to their original positions; make yourself a diagram if necessary. The oil gallery plug at the rear of the left side oil gallery can be a pain to remove. It goes without saying to mark the connecting rod caps and rods so they do not get mixed up. The main bearing caps should have numbers on them; if not, mark them also. The distributor can be difficult to remove, it has an o-ring seal.
Just picked up a 400 out of a 69 442. Literally only got a fast as if get it off the trailer, but plan on tearing into it next weekend most likely. It belongs to one of the owners of the company I work for, and I am tearing into it to make sure it's still usable. He is finally looking to move his car after at least a decade in the barn and 2 years of my persistence.
That being said, what are some things to look for and follow. My engine building experience is limited to small block Mopar, so any and all tips are appreciated.
Thanks in advance
What kind of car does he own? If it isn't a '68 or '69 4-4-2, I would suggest that you convince him to sell the engine to someone looking for a 400 for their '68 or '69 4-4-2. You can use whatever money you get from the engine to buy a 455 or frankly any other engine. IMO, the Olds 400s are too desirable to put in anything other than 4-4-2s.
Just my two cents.
Last edited by NTXOlds; April 12th, 2021 at 09:08 AM.
Reason: removed photo
It's a 69 442. It ran great he said, he just wanted more HP so he had it pulled to put a 454 in and just never got around to it. Initially I just wanted to make sure the engine is still a good piece, and put it back in the car for someone to enjoy as he's told me it's numbers matching original.
The issue I'm having, I've slowly started to want to be the one who enjoys it.
As far as how far down I plan on going...nothing radical. Probably just OE rebuild, maybe bigger cam..but I'll make that his call unless I end up buying it. He bought a new Holley for it, but it still had the QJet and as someone who enjoys bigger secondaries of a Thermoquad, I'd probably just rebuild the Qjet and be done with it.
It's a 69 442. It ran great he said, he just wanted more HP so he had it pulled to put a 454 in and just never got around to it. Initially I just wanted to make sure the engine is still a good piece, and put it back in the car for someone to enjoy as he's told me it's numbers matching original.
The issue I'm having, I've slowly started to want to be the one who enjoys it.
As far as how far down I plan on going...nothing radical. Probably just OE rebuild, maybe bigger cam..but I'll make that his call unless I end up buying it. He bought a new Holley for it, but it still had the QJet and as someone who enjoys bigger secondaries of a Thermoquad, I'd probably just rebuild the Qjet and be done with it.
That is great to hear. I am glad you are getting another numbers matching 442 on the road.
You'll get a lot of great advice on here, so best of luck with the project.
It is a "C" block..Haven't had much time to research that but seems fairly common. We did pull the #1 plug yesterday when it got off the trailer just to see what kind of a fight it'd put up, and it came out like it was a new plug (didn't look new though). Dad took the light and looked in..said it looked dirty, but saw oil and a little moisture. Moisture was expected as it sat outside, but its still showing signs of lubrication.
Gonna go pick up some mystery oil and let it creep in over the next couple days, then pull the plugs and valve covers to see if it spins by hand.
Nope, that is a C head. Which is good. The block # is right behind the waterpump, centerline, on top, in front of the intake manifold. It should say ######G and that is a G block Big Block Olds, sometimes called the 68-69 Rocket 400.
I've tried to protect originality, even if it's not my preferred type of vehicle. As many got thrashed, torn apart, etc..if there is anything out there that survived all of that, I prefer to do my part to preserve the history.
The cars I'm okay tearing apart, are the ones not worth the big bucks, or that could equate to the Camry of the day. Id love a 71 Demon to build into nostalgic Pro Stock, but I'll never do it because they're rare enough cars as it is..but a Dart Sport and Gen 3 Hemi would scratch the same itch. For me, it's the same concept across all brands.
Nope, that is a C head. Which is good. The block # is right behind the waterpump, centerline, on top, in front of the intake manifold. It should say ######G and that is a G block Big Block Olds, sometimes called the 68-69 Rocket 400.
So BB heads are interchangeable on these? The letter system was new to me this morning, and apparently I need to do more research. I'll check that out.
I plan on doing some more digging when I get home. Will the number (letter?) be behind the timing cover then? I tried to look along the sides like Mopars have them, but didn't see anything without really getting on the floor with a light.
We can help with all part numbers, just take pictures and tell us about them.
A minor refresh would be the oil pump and pickup, and a new timing set, definitely replace the nylon timing gear. Water pump while you're at it. Cast impellers are nice if it has one. All the above as well, with the caveat of, if it has decent compression, may not need to remove heads.
It will like premium gasoline, and a lot of it. Maybe a lead treatment and octane booster.
So BB heads are interchangeable on these? The letter system was new to me this morning, and apparently I need to do more research. I'll check that out.
I plan on doing some more digging when I get home. Will the number (letter?) be behind the timing cover then? I tried to look along the sides like Mopars have them, but didn't see anything without really getting on the floor with a light.
Yes, the block number is right behind the timing cover. G. The G block 400 got C heads in 68 and 69. Those are the correct heads. The heads and block codes are not related. (For instance the 67 E block 400 got C heads, too.)
Now that block is vin stamped, you'll see it on the driver's side, near the front, right under where the C is you took the picture of on the head. It will be like a 39M###### which are the last six of the vin, assuming it's a Lansing car. Edit: the OTHER head, not the C you took the picture of at the back right, the one at the front left is where I meant)
The block casting number will identify the engine. The casting number is on the shelf behind the water pump for 1964 and newer blocks.
The heads have either a number (for small block engines) or a letter (for big block engines) as shown below, and the VIN derivative is stamped on the pad at the corner of the block below the #1 cylinder.
If you have the ability to resurrect an original, numbers matching 442 (assumed from your other post)... you will not regret it, whether you keep the car or not. I am sure the folks here will help you get more than your fair share of enjoyment and performance out of the original! It will be worth plenty for your next project if you decide not to keep it.
I will try to have a few more pictures sent over as he's getting ready to head out of town and I don't feel comfortable going to his house while he's gone.
As everyone else has hit on, my goal is to put back on the road a numbers matching 442. If I get to be the owner one day, even better..but that's not my focus. I appreciate the fact that it's been less than 24 hours and everyone seems to be helpful. I've been on many forums over the years that haven't been that way, especially to "Brand X-ers"
I have asked for the VIN as well in my list of picture demands, and will verify it is indeed numbers matching once I have it. Its been a while since I've checked compression on an engine that wasn't in a working car, but I'll brush up on that and check it. Still may pull the heads to make sure the walls/pistons/rings are in good shape, but Ive gotta get it off the pallet first.
Welcome aboard. I also have a '69 442 with the original 400G and C heads. Sounds like you want to add a little power over stock but keep the engine original to the car. Hopefully, you've saved the car from the fate of having a 454 shoved into it. The C heads may well be the most desirable of the big block heads. Most people go Performer for an intake on these but single plane is an option, depending on what you want. Either way, that's easy enough to change if you want to reinstall the iron manifold later.
Rebuilding the Q-jet is a good move. It'll ultimately be a better performance/street carb than going aftermarket (these were better engineered carbs than what was offered by Chrysler or Ford). You should also verify the exhaust manifolds. '69 442's got "W" and "Z" manifolds with individual runners. Here again, these are widely considered to be the best exhaust manifolds offered by Oldsmobile. It will be obvious to identify them as the letters are cast in very large font toward the front of each.
Most guys want to ditch the 400G because 455's offer more displacement and are more readily available. However, the 400G can be a very reliable street engine with more than respectable horsepower and torque. Just keep in mind they won't rev like some other engines. Keep the rpm's below 5k and there's a lot of fun to be had.
Good luck.
No, it's an Automatic. Visually, looks to be in pretty good shape..but the dipstick and tube were removed for some reason so the entire time it sat outside water was able to get in.
Went out when I got home and snapped a couple pictures. Grabbed the VIN off the block, gonna have to check out the car when he gets back from vacation.
Gotcha. Once I get more pictures of the car (including VIN and tag) I'll have to start another thread to further dissect that. I'm kinda curious as well at the production numbers as what little digging I'd seen not many 442s came from Fremont (again, little digging thus far)
I did run the numbers on the carb last night, it is coded for the same car..Ill need to figure out the date code and compare that to the car once I get more info on it.
I picked up some mystery oil last night, Ill go out probably Thursday or Friday night and pull the plugs and put a bit in each cylinder so I can try to turn it over Saturday morning. Once I know it turns over, I'll check compression and gameplan how far I'm going. I'd like to avoid pulling things I don't need to, but I also don't want to do it half way since it's looking to be true numbers from what I have so far.
I did run the numbers on the carb last night, it is coded for the same car..Ill need to figure out the date code and compare that to the car once I get more info on it.
The correct carb would be 7029251, which was used on every 1969 Olds big block (400s and 455s) with AT except the W30. It's pretty common.
It sounds like you're not sure yet whether you're going to take the engine completely apart. Just my 2 cents but I would only consider that route if this engine was low miles and still running fairly well (e.g. good oil pressure, compression, etc.). The fact that this was sitting outside for some amount of time AND had water getting into the crankcase would leave me with no question that it needs to come apart.
Also, it's pretty obvious if this engine didn't come out of that car it definitely came out of another '69 442.
Numbers definitely match the car, went out and verified this evening.
That being said, I'll still plan on a full rebuild regardless of whether I buy it or not. The compression test will help ease my mind regarding the health/starting point.
Odometer read just under 31k..no telling if/how many times it has rolled over though.
FYI...if you rebuild the short block, be advised Eagle aftermarket rods will NOT fit into the small bores. I just learned the hard way. So be prepared to recondition the stock rods rather than using aftermarket.
Also there are limited options for forged pistons for the small bore size. I ended up going with custom size pistons (expensive).
That's a service replacement carburetor built the 6th day of 1972
Oh, okay. Well, I'll feel less bad about sticking something I'm more familiar with on it then..
Its been a while since I messed with date codes on a Qjet, so I couldn't remember which one I needed to look at. Nothing against a replacement though, as I'll probably still keep it for whenever I sell the car. (Again, assuming things don't change and I'm able to buy it)
As far as rods go, I hadn't planned on doing anything other than than a full refresh, using as many stock components as I could. At most, it may see a bit more cam but I'm honestly conflicted on that due to it being what it is.
April 11th, 2021, 07:07 PM
