Oldstata. 455 build
#1
Oldstata. 455 build
Okay it's time to start the motor.
This will be a slow build maybe a year as I plan to build as I funds allow.
So far I stripped the block seems to be low mileage. And I scored with a N crank!
So the plan is use block 1972 and n crank with rods from the same block upgrade pistons and use ka heads. this will be a street build on a budget, but not cutting corners.
Now, I am on a budget and most guys I've talked to say use kb pistons or icon.
Now cost wise I been looking at speed pro pistons and wondering pro / cons of these
Block crank and heads are at the machine shop getting cleaned and checked. I will post numbers when I get them so I can put a game plan together
446318BE-CF4F-44A0-A6FC-27483A793813.jpg
4A6F8A7D-7010-4D81-B080-A85A82EA7802_1.jpg
E01A4DD7-3258-4AA0-AFE8-925DA8C047C7.jpg
8B956AB1-45FA-4600-B853-DB5E177CF5C4.jpg
This will be a slow build maybe a year as I plan to build as I funds allow.
So far I stripped the block seems to be low mileage. And I scored with a N crank!
So the plan is use block 1972 and n crank with rods from the same block upgrade pistons and use ka heads. this will be a street build on a budget, but not cutting corners.
Now, I am on a budget and most guys I've talked to say use kb pistons or icon.
Now cost wise I been looking at speed pro pistons and wondering pro / cons of these
Block crank and heads are at the machine shop getting cleaned and checked. I will post numbers when I get them so I can put a game plan together
446318BE-CF4F-44A0-A6FC-27483A793813.jpg
4A6F8A7D-7010-4D81-B080-A85A82EA7802_1.jpg
E01A4DD7-3258-4AA0-AFE8-925DA8C047C7.jpg
8B956AB1-45FA-4600-B853-DB5E177CF5C4.jpg
Last edited by oldstata; January 27th, 2014 at 09:29 PM.
#3
I wouldn't use the Speed Pro's. The Icon's are well worth the extra money. The SP's use old school thick rings that will run hotter and wear out the bores faster. I would also look into using a set of Eagle rods. By the time you have your stock rods redone with new ARP bolts you aren't that far off price wise.
#5
I wouldn't use the Speed Pro's. The Icon's are well worth the extra money. The SP's use old school thick rings that will run hotter and wear out the bores faster. I would also look into using a set of Eagle rods. By the time you have your stock rods redone with new ARP bolts you aren't that far off price wise.
What machine work if any will I need for the rods ? And is this money well spent in a street build ? I don't mind buying quality it just pushes the build time out. I was just going to use the same rods from the crank so in theory I thought there wouldn't be any machine work except to install new pistons.
http://lightningmotorsports.com/i-329483.aspx?gclid=CKCm0uOXobwCFYeEfgodSTsAiQ
Are these what you were referring to ?
Last edited by oldstata; January 28th, 2014 at 07:31 AM.
#6
Actually this is the set I would recommend:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/eagl.../i-329482.aspx
They are the same rods but with the less expensive ARP 8740 bolts which are just fine for your application. These are the same rods I have in my '65. As far as the stock rods go if you reuse them they should be magnafluxed, resized and have new bolts installed. Then you also have to pay to have the pistons pressed on. If you use the Icon's and the Eagle rods it's a floating pin setup so you can install them yourself for free.
http://lightningmotorsports.com/eagl.../i-329482.aspx
They are the same rods but with the less expensive ARP 8740 bolts which are just fine for your application. These are the same rods I have in my '65. As far as the stock rods go if you reuse them they should be magnafluxed, resized and have new bolts installed. Then you also have to pay to have the pistons pressed on. If you use the Icon's and the Eagle rods it's a floating pin setup so you can install them yourself for free.
#7
Actually this is the set I would recommend:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/eagl.../i-329482.aspx
If you use the Icon's and the Eagle rods it's a floating pin setup so you can install them yourself for free.
http://lightningmotorsports.com/eagl.../i-329482.aspx
If you use the Icon's and the Eagle rods it's a floating pin setup so you can install them yourself for free.
One other reason to buy the Icons. They're made mostly in the US. Some are made in Mexico but most are made here.
However almost all the Speed Pros anymore are made in India. It'll say it right on the box.
#10
#13
And sorry but to shot peen, recon, r&r the pistons off the rods plus pay for new bolts is a total waste of money. By then you'll be within $100.00 of a set of Eagles and all you'll have is a set of shot peened, reconditioned crappy rods.
Buy the Eagles.
#15
Eagle rods
Oldstata,
If you use Eagle rods (I think you should) You will have to grind clearance in the block at the bottom of each bore.
Trivial if the block is not yet assembled (mine was not, when I discovered this).
An hour and a half with a dremel does it.
George
If you use Eagle rods (I think you should) You will have to grind clearance in the block at the bottom of each bore.
Trivial if the block is not yet assembled (mine was not, when I discovered this).
An hour and a half with a dremel does it.
George
#16
This is what I thought that's why I asked earlier if any machine work was needed thanks for the confirmation
#17
Okay guys, I should be getting new eagle rods and icon pistons that was offered to me. Hopefully I get the cash before he sells them but it should be at the first of March wife in board is always great !!
Should get the measurements from the machine shop tomorrow will post them up and make my game plan
Should get the measurements from the machine shop tomorrow will post them up and make my game plan
#19
#21
My block was a '65 400 that has been bored .155 over to make a 461 using a 455 crank. From what I've heard from others it's hit or miss regardless of the year as far as the need to clearance the block. If necessary it doesn't cost anything to do. Just use an air grinder and a burr.
#25
Okay everything was good stander bore so virgin block suggested to go .020 over to clean up taper and rust. The icon pistons I was offered are .040 so still leaves room for future builds if needed
Heads ka looked great they confermed they were rebuilt with low miles/hrs on them but suggest to rebuild if I port and polished they magged and vacuumed tested great
Crank just needs a polish
So I just need to buy my cam piston and rods and take everything back in March to start machine work
Heads ka looked great they confermed they were rebuilt with low miles/hrs on them but suggest to rebuild if I port and polished they magged and vacuumed tested great
Crank just needs a polish
So I just need to buy my cam piston and rods and take everything back in March to start machine work
#26
#27
OR
Just do the grinding.
I used the crank counterweight lobes and a straight edge to help mark the area
needing clearance.
If you want to call me, I can explain it. Hard to describe in text.
Give me a pm
George
#28
Okay here is the quote
Bore 160.00
Align hone 140.00
Deck and square if I want 150
Piston pressed on 40
Rods checked 40
Crank polish 40
Cam bearings and freeze plugs 50
Short block assembly 275 free degree the cam
Long block 400
Complete oil pan to carb 500
Plus parts
I paid 130 to have blocked cleaned magged and checked
Heads magged and vacuumed tested and crank cleaned and checked
Bore 160.00
Align hone 140.00
Deck and square if I want 150
Piston pressed on 40
Rods checked 40
Crank polish 40
Cam bearings and freeze plugs 50
Short block assembly 275 free degree the cam
Long block 400
Complete oil pan to carb 500
Plus parts
I paid 130 to have blocked cleaned magged and checked
Heads magged and vacuumed tested and crank cleaned and checked
Last edited by oldstata; January 31st, 2014 at 08:55 AM.
#31
Okay here is the quote
Bore 160.00
Align hone 140.00
Deck and square if I want 150
Piston pressed on 40
Rods checked 40
Crank polish 40
Cam bearings and freeze plugs 50
Short block assembly 275 free degree the cam
Long block 400
Complete oil pan to carb 500
Plus parts
I paid 130 to have blocked cleaned magged and checked
Heads magged and vacuumed tested and crank cleaned and checked
Bore 160.00
Align hone 140.00
Deck and square if I want 150
Piston pressed on 40
Rods checked 40
Crank polish 40
Cam bearings and freeze plugs 50
Short block assembly 275 free degree the cam
Long block 400
Complete oil pan to carb 500
Plus parts
I paid 130 to have blocked cleaned magged and checked
Heads magged and vacuumed tested and crank cleaned and checked
I don't see balancing or honing with a torque plate on there.
And if he says he put your cam in "straight up", then ask him to explain that. That's awefully cheap to assemble and degree a short block.
#35
#36
I wouldn't use the Speed Pro's. The Icon's are well worth the extra money. The SP's use old school thick rings that will run hotter and wear out the bores faster. I would also look into using a set of Eagle rods. By the time you have your stock rods redone with new ARP bolts you aren't that far off price wise.
Why don't you like the SpeedPro pistons (aside from being made in India)? And what size rings fit the Icons that are thinner than OEM. I think stock pistons came with 5/64" compression rings and 3/16" oil rings. Do the Icons run smaller rings?
Thanks.
Rodney
#37
The Icon and Wisecos use a 1/16. 1/16, 3/16 ring pack. Not only do they have less friction, they actually tend to seal better than the thicker rings (5/64) because they can conform to the cylinder wall easier. It's a win win.
Last edited by cutlassefi; February 1st, 2014 at 06:51 AM.
#38
Size matters?
Mark:
Is the friction a big concern because of the low-zinc modern oils? Aren't SpeedPros are much less expensive than Icons? I priced a set of SpeedPro chevy pistons at $190 (stroking with Chevy rods) where the Icons are more like $350 a set. Is the ring size really that big of a deal? I'm getting all my ducks in a row for my engine build and would really like to understand the importance of the ring size. Thanks!
Is the friction a big concern because of the low-zinc modern oils? Aren't SpeedPros are much less expensive than Icons? I priced a set of SpeedPro chevy pistons at $190 (stroking with Chevy rods) where the Icons are more like $350 a set. Is the ring size really that big of a deal? I'm getting all my ducks in a row for my engine build and would really like to understand the importance of the ring size. Thanks!
#39
In regards to the BBO Speed Pros vs the Icons, it's not only the rings. The Icon is waaay lighter while being stronger as well.
Otherwise when it comes to comparing Chevy pistons to anything else, you can't. It becomes an economy of scale issue. Most Chevy pistons far out sell anything else. That makes them cheaper to make etc.
Otherwise when it comes to comparing Chevy pistons to anything else, you can't. It becomes an economy of scale issue. Most Chevy pistons far out sell anything else. That makes them cheaper to make etc.
#40
And you explain the hone with torque plate is that just a line hone ?