oldstata

Okay it's time to start the motor.

This will be a slow build maybe a year as I plan to build as I funds allow.

So far I stripped the block seems to be low mileage. And I scored with a N crank!

So the plan is use block 1972 and n crank with rods from the same block upgrade pistons and use ka heads. this will be a street build on a budget, but not cutting corners.
Now, I am on a budget and most guys I've talked to say use kb pistons or icon.
Now cost wise I been looking at speed pro pistons and wondering pro / cons of these

Block crank and heads are at the machine shop getting cleaned and checked. I will post numbers when I get them so I can put a game plan together
446318BE-CF4F-44A0-A6FC-27483A793813.jpg

4A6F8A7D-7010-4D81-B080-A85A82EA7802_1.jpg

E01A4DD7-3258-4AA0-AFE8-925DA8C047C7.jpg
8B956AB1-45FA-4600-B853-DB5E177CF5C4.jpg

tru-blue 442

Cool! I will be following along.
Good luck with it. I think most
of us here can relate to a budget
build while trying to get the best
performance out of it at the same time.

chadman

I wouldn't use the Speed Pro's. The Icon's are well worth the extra money. The SP's use old school thick rings that will run hotter and wear out the bores faster. I would also look into using a set of Eagle rods. By the time you have your stock rods redone with new ARP bolts you aren't that far off price wise.

cutlassefi

X2. Wouldn't change a thing he said. Money well spent.

oldstata

What machine work if any will I need for the rods ? And is this money well spent in a street build ? I don't mind buying quality it just pushes the build time out. I was just going to use the same rods from the crank so in theory I thought there wouldn't be any machine work except to install new pistons.

http://lightningmotorsports.com/i-329483.aspx?gclid=CKCm0uOXobwCFYeEfgodSTsAiQ

Are these what you were referring to ?

chadman

Actually this is the set I would recommend:
http://lightningmotorsports.com/eagl.../i-329482.aspx

They are the same rods but with the less expensive ARP 8740 bolts which are just fine for your application. These are the same rods I have in my '65. As far as the stock rods go if you reuse them they should be magnafluxed, resized and have new bolts installed. Then you also have to pay to have the pistons pressed on. If you use the Icon's and the Eagle rods it's a floating pin setup so you can install them yourself for free.

cutlassefi

Yes but you should still have them checked.

One other reason to buy the Icons. They're made mostly in the US. Some are made in Mexico but most are made here.
However almost all the Speed Pros anymore are made in India. It'll say it right on the box.

chadman

I do that myself but I doubt the OP has his own bore gage so yes I agree.

Stevec

What are your goals? I would def go with aftermarket rods. IMO.

oldstata

It's just a street car

1965 cutlass I would like 400hp

Currently I have

Dual exhaust stock for 65/678
Eddie performer intake
Eddie 800 Cfm carb
Rebuilt th400
Olds 12 bolt 3:23 open currently

Lars

kb 132's, stock rods shotpeened arp bolts, .0018 side clearance. shotpeen crank balance it arp main studs but stock is ok, line hone. .0025 rods .0035 mains. ZERO deck the block.

chadman

.0018 rod side clearance? I hope that was a typo.

cutlassefi

I'm guessing you mean .018 side clearance and not .0018? That's less than 2 thousandths.
And sorry but to shot peen, recon, r&r the pistons off the rods plus pay for new bolts is a total waste of money. By then you'll be within $100.00 of a set of Eagles and all you'll have is a set of shot peened, reconditioned crappy rods.

Buy the Eagles.

Lars

ya, haven't priced a set of rods lately, your right and .018

rootney

Oldstata,

If you use Eagle rods (I think you should) You will have to grind clearance in the block at the bottom of each bore.
Trivial if the block is not yet assembled (mine was not, when I discovered this).
An hour and a half with a dremel does it.

George

oldstata

This is what I thought that's why I asked earlier if any machine work was needed thanks for the confirmation

oldstata

Okay guys, I should be getting new eagle rods and icon pistons that was offered to me. Hopefully I get the cash before he sells them but it should be at the first of March wife in board is always great !!

Should get the measurements from the machine shop tomorrow will post them up and make my game plan

chadman

I didn't have to clearance my block for the Eagle rods. Some blocks need it and some don't.

oldstata

? Rod different or blocks different between years ? What year was your block and do you know what it was orig in ?

foo

I can say mine never needed it 73 block

chadman

My block was a '65 400 that has been bored .155 over to make a 461 using a 455 crank. From what I've heard from others it's hit or miss regardless of the year as far as the need to clearance the block. If necessary it doesn't cost anything to do. Just use an air grinder and a burr.

oldstata

Do you have any pics of what needs modified . I have tools to do the job just not understanding it, maybe I will once I see it in person or if some one has pics


Thanks

oldstata

Looks like heads look good should I spend the 300 on a light port and polish or just run them and replace with pro comp or eddies at a later date ?

tru-blue 442

^^^ Uh Ohh.

oldstata

Okay everything was good stander bore so virgin block suggested to go .020 over to clean up taper and rust. The icon pistons I was offered are .040 so still leaves room for future builds if needed

Heads ka looked great they confermed they were rebuilt with low miles/hrs on them but suggest to rebuild if I port and polished they magged and vacuumed tested great

Crank just needs a polish

So I just need to buy my cam piston and rods and take everything back in March to start machine work

oldstata

418197E3-E918-4F65-A5C1-FF95FB21ABC8.jpg
08B4C362-8B54-4039-A2AA-08B8DAD67202.jpg
EA86AE11-90E2-4491-B4D6-7955EE4FC959.jpg

8EAD2CA2-F7E1-4823-A7FA-D5CAE74DE679.jpg

rootney

I'd say you either put the crank in and just snug the mains bolts, put a pair of pistons in and check for clearance
OR
Just do the grinding.
I used the crank counterweight lobes and a straight edge to help mark the area
needing clearance.
If you want to call me, I can explain it. Hard to describe in text.

Give me a pm

George

oldstata

Okay here is the quote

Bore 160.00
Align hone 140.00
Deck and square if I want 150
Piston pressed on 40
Rods checked 40
Crank polish 40
Cam bearings and freeze plugs 50

Short block assembly 275 free degree the cam
Long block 400
Complete oil pan to carb 500

Plus parts

I paid 130 to have blocked cleaned magged and checked
Heads magged and vacuumed tested and crank cleaned and checked

chadman

Sounds like pretty fair pricing to me.

815Cutlass1972

I agree the machine work pricing seems fair. Glad to see you getting at it!

cutlassefi

I don't see balancing or honing with a torque plate on there.
And if he says he put your cam in "straight up", then ask him to explain that. That's awefully cheap to assemble and degree a short block.

oldstata

Balancing is 250 and he said if he built it he would degree cam for me to my specs for free

815Cutlass1972

Pm sent chief

oldstata

Can you explain this r honing with a torque

What it is
815 pm sent

oldstata

Have you checked my build I've done a ton of body work. Pages I think 3-5 show just how we did it look up " kids helping with project "

cdrod

Chadman:
Why don't you like the SpeedPro pistons (aside from being made in India)? And what size rings fit the Icons that are thinner than OEM. I think stock pistons came with 5/64" compression rings and 3/16" oil rings. Do the Icons run smaller rings?
Thanks.

Rodney

cutlassefi

The Icon and Wisecos use a 1/16. 1/16, 3/16 ring pack. Not only do they have less friction, they actually tend to seal better than the thicker rings (5/64) because they can conform to the cylinder wall easier. It's a win win.

cdrod

Mark:
Is the friction a big concern because of the low-zinc modern oils? Aren't SpeedPros are much less expensive than Icons? I priced a set of SpeedPro chevy pistons at $190 (stroking with Chevy rods) where the Icons are more like $350 a set. Is the ring size really that big of a deal? I'm getting all my ducks in a row for my engine build and would really like to understand the importance of the ring size. Thanks!

cutlassefi

In regards to the BBO Speed Pros vs the Icons, it's not only the rings. The Icon is waaay lighter while being stronger as well.
Otherwise when it comes to comparing Chevy pistons to anything else, you can't. It becomes an economy of scale issue. Most Chevy pistons far out sell anything else. That makes them cheaper to make etc.

oldstata

And you explain the hone with torque plate is that just a line hone ?