Engine Rebuild project
March 21st, 2012, 02:10 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
Engine Rebuild project
hey guys,
First of all, this may be an ongoing thread for valuable feedback and I may edit quote often for your input and I want to say I appreciate the guidance since this is my first experience as I consider myself a rookie.
So I disassembled a big block 455 that was for a 72 cutlass; Im am currently getting quotes from machine shops. It's a F (sans serif letter) with Ga heads, some of the members may remember my thread about the bolts that were stuck which I was able to loosen with heat.
Anyways,
Inquiry 1: since I know now the Ga heads are not the large valve heads, should I spend the effort to get the large Ga heads or stick what I have. I prefer to go with Ga heads due to year and I dont know why maybe bc they have hardened seats and it's less costly at the shop so that's a plus but how much of a performance will I missing out on? are we talking drastic HP? I wanted to re-use the heads that came on the engine. I will have the shop install a performance cam, and still debating if I should keep the original intake manifold or get a performer. I can wait on making the decision for carb and manifold but I gotta decide on the heads asap.
Im not going to track race but I do wanna beast on the street with a budget in mind - cant dump too much money into it; Just trying to determine if this is critical step and Im making a rookie mistake by going w original heads...
First of all, this may be an ongoing thread for valuable feedback and I may edit quote often for your input and I want to say I appreciate the guidance since this is my first experience as I consider myself a rookie.
So I disassembled a big block 455 that was for a 72 cutlass; Im am currently getting quotes from machine shops. It's a F (sans serif letter) with Ga heads, some of the members may remember my thread about the bolts that were stuck which I was able to loosen with heat.
Anyways,
Inquiry 1: since I know now the Ga heads are not the large valve heads, should I spend the effort to get the large Ga heads or stick what I have. I prefer to go with Ga heads due to year and I dont know why maybe bc they have hardened seats and it's less costly at the shop so that's a plus but how much of a performance will I missing out on? are we talking drastic HP? I wanted to re-use the heads that came on the engine. I will have the shop install a performance cam, and still debating if I should keep the original intake manifold or get a performer. I can wait on making the decision for carb and manifold but I gotta decide on the heads asap.
Im not going to track race but I do wanna beast on the street with a budget in mind - cant dump too much money into it; Just trying to determine if this is critical step and Im making a rookie mistake by going w original heads...
Last edited by nj_cutlass72; March 21st, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
March 21st, 2012, 03:18 PM
#2
Seasoned beater pilot.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,468
I could save you the trouble if you like.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-88-combo.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-88-combo.html
March 21st, 2012, 03:55 PM
#3
You will not loose much HP at all with the smaller valve heads. It would be different for a higher revving race car but for the street no problem. The machine shop can install the larger valves in your heads so you dont need to look for different ones.
Am curious if you needed oxy-acetelyne to loosten those bolts!?
Am curious if you needed oxy-acetelyne to loosten those bolts!?
March 21st, 2012, 07:28 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 473
Despite all of the "this is better/that is worse" talk on heads, everyones always speaking in terms of 2% or 3% of overall output, almost nothing lol. However i did see a flow chart not long ago where all heads were compared and the earlier heads (A-C at least) did flow better than later heads (such as G/Ga) by about 20cfm. However it wouldnt take much to get the Ga to flow that extra bit if you really wanted it. But in my opinion i love the G and Ga for the hardened valve seats. Makes for a much cheaper/easier street motor thats not missing out on much flow really
March 21st, 2012, 10:11 PM
#5
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
For a cam, I like the Engle 20-22 cam for a street car. I used to run that cam in my 455 back in high school with a stock iron intake and E heads...car ran 13.001 on street tires. It's about as big as you can go with stock heads so for a budget build, it's definitely the best way to get power.
Specs are: 496/512 lift, 226/230 duration @ .050"
Specs are: 496/512 lift, 226/230 duration @ .050"
March 22nd, 2012, 05:42 AM
#6
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,831
Some good info here, you'll have more decisions to make I'm sure.
As far as a cam goes, stock valvetrain? Aftermarket? Idle quality? Compression? Exhaust manifolds or headers?
Like I said, you'll have to make a bunch more decisions before all is said and done.
As far as the heads go, if it's a street driver and ultimate hp isn't required then imo stay with the 2.00 intakes. However, if you end up needing new valves, most shops don't charge much more to open the seats for a larger valve. That 455 will take to the larger valve like a kid to a candy bar.
Jmo.
As far as a cam goes, stock valvetrain? Aftermarket? Idle quality? Compression? Exhaust manifolds or headers?
Like I said, you'll have to make a bunch more decisions before all is said and done.
As far as the heads go, if it's a street driver and ultimate hp isn't required then imo stay with the 2.00 intakes. However, if you end up needing new valves, most shops don't charge much more to open the seats for a larger valve. That 455 will take to the larger valve like a kid to a candy bar.
Jmo.
March 22nd, 2012, 06:10 AM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: bowman, north dakota
Posts: 280
i'll agree with the previous posts, you could have the larger valves installed but not really necessary. what is more important is your compression ratio since you are gonna run iron heads... did you by any chance check the piston depth in the cylinder before you pulled the pistons/rods? that will help determine if & how much you'll want to deck the block to help achieve your desired compression ratio...
March 22nd, 2012, 06:39 AM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South River, New Jersey
Posts: 3,515
where in Jersey...
Where in jersey are u? I am over in South River....
you do need to be careful and you might need one of Robs AntiMaw Hats, I just had a 455 built for my 69, and one thing does lead to another, the machinist I used was great though, had no problems with me picking up the parts, etc etc etc, he doesn't have a dyno, but he did meticulous work.. I had the hardened seats put in the c heads, then I asked for a mild port and some blending, then I wanted adjustable rockers and went with harlan sharps, etc etc etc etc LOL... I didn't have the helmet...
anyway the guy I used was Larry Hansen at Hansen Racing ( no relation) decent prices, and staright up no BS... I was hoping to get around 375-400 Honest Ponies, I have a 69 455, c heads, performer manifold, Erson Cam from mark ( cutlassfi) forged Icon Pistons at about 9.5 to 1, eagle rods, running the w-z exhaust manifolds, haven't decided on the exhaust system yet..
you do need to be careful and you might need one of Robs AntiMaw Hats, I just had a 455 built for my 69, and one thing does lead to another, the machinist I used was great though, had no problems with me picking up the parts, etc etc etc, he doesn't have a dyno, but he did meticulous work.. I had the hardened seats put in the c heads, then I asked for a mild port and some blending, then I wanted adjustable rockers and went with harlan sharps, etc etc etc etc LOL... I didn't have the helmet...
anyway the guy I used was Larry Hansen at Hansen Racing ( no relation) decent prices, and staright up no BS... I was hoping to get around 375-400 Honest Ponies, I have a 69 455, c heads, performer manifold, Erson Cam from mark ( cutlassfi) forged Icon Pistons at about 9.5 to 1, eagle rods, running the w-z exhaust manifolds, haven't decided on the exhaust system yet..
March 22nd, 2012, 11:09 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
I could save you the trouble if you like.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-88-combo.html
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-88-combo.html
great build, I may even refer back to this for some tips however the experience is something I cant buy....very similar to what I am envisioning.
March 22nd, 2012, 11:12 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
You will not loose much HP at all with the smaller valve heads. It would be different for a higher revving race car but for the street no problem. The machine shop can install the larger valves in your heads so you dont need to look for different ones.
Am curious if you needed oxy-acetelyne to loosten those bolts!?
Am curious if you needed oxy-acetelyne to loosten those bolts!?
what do you mean by install larger valves? they would I guess enlarge by machining to fit larger valves? I thought the degree and width was different.. if its not worth the extra effort I'll skip but this why I am inquiring to find out - thanx
March 22nd, 2012, 11:17 AM
#11
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
For a cam, I like the Engle 20-22 cam for a street car. I used to run that cam in my 455 back in high school with a stock iron intake and E heads...car ran 13.001 on street tires. It's about as big as you can go with stock heads so for a budget build, it's definitely the best way to get power.
Specs are: 496/512 lift, 226/230 duration @ .050"
Specs are: 496/512 lift, 226/230 duration @ .050"
March 22nd, 2012, 11:25 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
Some good info here, you'll have more decisions to make I'm sure.
As far as a cam goes, stock valvetrain? Aftermarket? Idle quality? Compression? Exhaust manifolds or headers?
Like I said, you'll have to make a bunch more decisions before all is said and done.
As far as the heads go, if it's a street driver and ultimate hp isn't required then imo stay with the 2.00 intakes. However, if you end up needing new valves, most shops don't charge much more to open the seats for a larger valve. That 455 will take to the larger valve like a kid to a candy bar.
Jmo.
As far as a cam goes, stock valvetrain? Aftermarket? Idle quality? Compression? Exhaust manifolds or headers?
Like I said, you'll have to make a bunch more decisions before all is said and done.
As far as the heads go, if it's a street driver and ultimate hp isn't required then imo stay with the 2.00 intakes. However, if you end up needing new valves, most shops don't charge much more to open the seats for a larger valve. That 455 will take to the larger valve like a kid to a candy bar.
Jmo.
I would like to have the block bored 30 over, the cam ( i have to decide which one to go with to obtain max compression); new piston heads however using the original rods, cam&rod bearings will be new; lifters/rockets/valve rods/springs new...oil pump/screen/oil pan - new!
I am debating on the manifold and carb...to go original or replace to performer but I gotta be able to make my mortgage payments as well so I dont want to spread myself out to thin.. perhaps an update later down the road; I dont know why but the original manifold looks nice to me!
Edit - yes, I do want headers, they dont seem too costly and I like the clean look.
March 22nd, 2012, 11:33 AM
#13
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 715
Where in jersey are u? I am over in South River....
you do need to be careful and you might need one of Robs AntiMaw Hats, I just had a 455 built for my 69, and one thing does lead to another, the machinist I used was great though, had no problems with me picking up the parts, etc etc etc, he doesn't have a dyno, but he did meticulous work.. I had the hardened seats put in the c heads, then I asked for a mild port and some blending, then I wanted adjustable rockers and went with harlan sharps, etc etc etc etc LOL... I didn't have the helmet...
anyway the guy I used was Larry Hansen at Hansen Racing ( no relation) decent prices, and staright up no BS... I was hoping to get around 375-400 Honest Ponies, I have a 69 455, c heads, performer manifold, Erson Cam from mark ( cutlassfi) forged Icon Pistons at about 9.5 to 1, eagle rods, running the w-z exhaust manifolds, haven't decided on the exhaust system yet..
you do need to be careful and you might need one of Robs AntiMaw Hats, I just had a 455 built for my 69, and one thing does lead to another, the machinist I used was great though, had no problems with me picking up the parts, etc etc etc, he doesn't have a dyno, but he did meticulous work.. I had the hardened seats put in the c heads, then I asked for a mild port and some blending, then I wanted adjustable rockers and went with harlan sharps, etc etc etc etc LOL... I didn't have the helmet...
anyway the guy I used was Larry Hansen at Hansen Racing ( no relation) decent prices, and staright up no BS... I was hoping to get around 375-400 Honest Ponies, I have a 69 455, c heads, performer manifold, Erson Cam from mark ( cutlassfi) forged Icon Pistons at about 9.5 to 1, eagle rods, running the w-z exhaust manifolds, haven't decided on the exhaust system yet..
I live in parsippany - the keys are on the ignition if you find my house
I went to G&L in boonton, wasnt too impressed - seems like a nice guy.
I then went over to P&W at Hanover township, I may go with these guys - little more pricey but they have a good reputation in the area.
dude, I have no idea what you mean by Helmet, fill me in? 400 ponies would be nice to smoke some mustangs on the way to car shows!
Last edited by nj_cutlass72; March 22nd, 2012 at 12:15 PM.
March 22nd, 2012, 12:50 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South River, New Jersey
Posts: 3,515
here ya go....
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/...tml#post357186
it was a post by Rob, he invented a helmet that prevents the "might as well syndrome" LOL....
Larry Hansen was around 4 grand for my motor and another grand or so for a lot of might as wells, I had studs put in for the harlan sharp roller rockers, he did the heads complete hardened seats, port matching minor porting and polishing, balancing the entire roating assembly etc etc, then I added ARP bolts through out , eagle rods, etc etc etc it included rebuilding the carb, setting it up and run in... I paid him a third up front, a third when all the machine work and parts arrived and a third after i saw and heard it running seemed fair.
by the way i recommend the stock replacement moroso oil pan over a toro pan it holds an extra quart ( 5 plus the filter) and looks stock just fyi...
ohhhh and i am not into midnight auto parts LOL.... so need to find the keys....
I have highway gears in the car at 3.08's but it is a 4 speed..... so I don't know how smokin it will be LOL
it was a post by Rob, he invented a helmet that prevents the "might as well syndrome" LOL....
Larry Hansen was around 4 grand for my motor and another grand or so for a lot of might as wells, I had studs put in for the harlan sharp roller rockers, he did the heads complete hardened seats, port matching minor porting and polishing, balancing the entire roating assembly etc etc, then I added ARP bolts through out , eagle rods, etc etc etc it included rebuilding the carb, setting it up and run in... I paid him a third up front, a third when all the machine work and parts arrived and a third after i saw and heard it running seemed fair.
by the way i recommend the stock replacement moroso oil pan over a toro pan it holds an extra quart ( 5 plus the filter) and looks stock just fyi...
ohhhh and i am not into midnight auto parts LOL.... so need to find the keys....
I have highway gears in the car at 3.08's but it is a 4 speed..... so I don't know how smokin it will be LOL
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