67Olds442X2

Most setups I've seen, the regulator is mounted on the wheel well. Seen one that was mounted on the front of the right head next to where the mech pump would be but I figure too much heat / vibration in that area. You got alum heads so that wouldn't work. I would mount to w/w and run two lines to the carb.

Maybe I'm out to lunch here but could you use your mech pump and have the electric pump provide the positive pressure to it, go from the regulator to mech pump? I plan on doing that since I got so much invested in the plumbing to my carbs. My mech pump is a Mr. Gasket that's puts out a little more pressure than the stock pump.

therobski

Couple of pictures of my set up on the 67.
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IMG_0339.jpg

ah64pilot

I would like to run something like the picture below. I have a holley regulator though, so it would have to mount on top of the bracket and I don't think it would clear a drop base air cleaner.

Lee_A

I suggest using flexible lines to the carb, and have them long enough to allow you to remove the float-bowls, to make jet changes faster/easier. I don't even have to remove my fuel line to change jets.

The fittings on my carb have integral filters in them. I have a large-micron filter before my pump, and these at the carb.


DSC_0011.jpg

ah64pilot

Ok, next question...if the pumps / regulators are 3/8" NPT then why run -8 hose?

Lee_A

There are engineering formulas that you can find if you really want to... but basically for a given diameter line, you have a certain amount of pressure drop over a distance. By the time you run 10' of -6, you will lose "some" pressure at the regulator. The larger hose will have less of a drop.


When I worked in chemical plants, it was pretty common to see piping size flanged UP after leaving a pump.


After you get tired of that noisey Holley and get a quieter pump, it may have 1/2" NPT fittings, so you'll already have the right sized hose in place

Lee

ah64pilot

Lee, that's the thing...I looked at the Mallory 140 because I was planning to run that but it's got the 3/8" NPT in / out on it as well. Only the 250 gph pumps have -8 in / out. You should just call me...this back and forth is taking forever lol! Or go in the chatbox, haha!

507OLDS

When I ran the carb set-up on the 72,I had a sumped tank,with the prefilter coming off the sump,then into the pump,then into the filter,then -8 line all the way to the regulator,then two -6 lines from the regulator to each bowl of the carb.No return.I had a regulator with one -8 inlet,and two -6 outlets.

ah64pilot

So I may have the wife convinced that buying all new stuff is the way to go. Mallory 140 pump / regulator, fiber braided fuel hose, RobbMC pick up, and filter. Cross your fingers, this thing may get done sooner than I thought

Rickman48

Just tell the wife, in this case, bigger is better!!

Texas Jim

F/ sure, 380Racer. ALWAYS, a big filter before the pump, between the tank and pump, in the rear ofcourse, and the pressure gauge right there at the carb, then you know exactly what pressure you have going into the carb. Just my opinion. And always a return from there infront of the carb so you have no hot fuel going in, and a cool can. Ofcourse this is my opinion, but I feel I've been in the ballpark f/ the past 30 plus years. I always use a Mallory pump and regulator. I know they're alittle pricey, but they are quiet, and very dependable. The electric fuel pump is something that I always maintain and take care of like I would my filters, fuel, air, oil, etc. I use those big fuel injection filters between the fuel tank and the pump. I mount the filter and pump back there on the frame on either side of the fuel tank.

Building a drag car is always about building it and then continually making mods and changes. Good Luck! Nothing but fine tuning of all the systems now.
The hp is fantastic, but the torque is the killer. I imagine that thing must pull hard like very little else. It's a beautiful car also.

Texas Jim

Used to go to the track in the early '70s w/ three guys who ran an H/MP Falcon. Back then, all H/MP were 6 cyls. It had three webber side draft carbs, and two three into one headers. It was an NHRA record holder at National Speedway, 11.17sec. et. All 4 speeds back then, prior to automatics taking over later on. It had two elec. pumps mounted back at the tank, one on each side of the tank mounted to the frame.

Lee_A

pic by Scott Singleton, SS Racingphotos

Texas Jim

Ah64, this is your car above, yes? If so, it's a real buauty, f/ sure one of the very best looking ones of it's kind that I've seen. The color, the hood, and super clean, just an overall great looking ride. Way to go. And now w/ that bad engine? Great car!!!

ah64pilot

Yeah, that's me...I didn't know they were taking the staging photo's...I only saw the other guys out there that took the pictures I posted above. Thank you for your compliments! It's nice to get positive feedback like that after spending so much money on the project. I really love that car, it is the car I learned how to drive on when I was 15.

We'll take it back after I get the new fuel pump on it, I can't wait to see if it helps the engine out.

citcapp

Why we're on the subject of fuel pumps. I'll pose this question. I have to install a new fuel tank in my 48 due to the narrow and tubbed rear. Because of this does it make more sense to go with an in-tank pump fuel cell set up rather than a separate fuel pump. I am going electric fuel pump in any case to feed my 850 Quick Fuel on my 455.

ah64pilot

I have no experience with this but I would like to offer a few arguments for you to think about:

1. A sumped fuel cell will gravity feed an external pump
2. An external pump will be easier to change if it ever fails
3. You can put a high flow filter before the pump to protect it if you go external
4. External pump would be simple to install, change, or delete at a later date.

507OLDS

I ran a sumped tank,with the pump at the lowest point,behind the sump,with a prefilter in between.I now have an Aeromotive in-tank pump,inside a cavity that is the last place to lose fuel.The tank I have now is one from Rick's HotRods.I know it might be a little more exotic than normal,but it's slick,and I don't have the bottom of the pump hanging out the back anymore.

firefrost gold

I talked to a guy who has a 68 hurst olds his times are fuzzy but he had dick miller ported car said he had to run both the electric and manual pump on his car said it didnt break up on top I will look into his name he was from ky meet him at the olds nats this summer.

ah64pilot

Brian, I like that idea. Do you have a part number and approximate cost?

507OLDS

I got my tank when Rick's was starting to make their "stealth" series tanks,and I got one of the first ones,when they did mine with the one for Air Ride Tech's Chevelle.It was about $1,000.00 for mine.I checked with them,in 2010,for another possible set-up,and it was $1800.00.The pump inside mine is the Aeromotive A1000.I can run it with a carb or EFI.I just change the regulator.
If you are running a mechanical with an electrical,it is wrong.Plain & simple.Most electric pumps are not "pullers",like a mechanical pump,so if they are not mounted correctly,they will starve.Sure,some have tried & succeeded,but plenty have failed.How would you like to put the car up on the back bumper,stave it,then have it come crashing down,bending the frame,popping the fenders out,and making a mess,all because you ran out of gas?I've seen that happen.

firefrost gold

The two pump set up might not be as trick as a in tank or sump set up but a pump is a pump it has to pull to push electric or manual gas or or or . He was able to make car still look stock and work with the set up. How are they gutting the stock pump and running the electric pumps in the fast and pure stock cars?

Texas Jim

mechanical and electric??? Don't know about that. I just know that an electric w/ a small or stock tank runs great, using the right pump and regulator, a cool can and the correct set-up on the return, and you can't go wrong. Placing/the physical location of these components are critical, but w/ the correct set-up, using one(IMO only an electric) is the best way you can go. Possibly using both(mech and elec.) gives an advantage in the big end, but I've never seen it and don't know that it works- just from my experience. Fuel systems aren't that complicated and w/ alittle research it's quite cut and dry. Also, don't spend a fortune, as alot of money isn't the answer, as the answer is knowledge along w/ fine tuning.

Redog

Nice

507OLDS

Yes,fuel systems are NOT that complicated.That's why you don't need two pumps.However,if you were driving from New Jersey to California,you should be able to make it there,unless both pumps quit.IF,and I mean "IF" there would be any benefit to running one mechanical,and one electrical,it would be from home plate.The mechanical could pull it,so the electrical doesn't starve,but at the high-end,the electrical would be pushing more than what the mechanical could pass through,if you have your typical AC Delco,Carter,or Holley mechanical pump.

Kyle's 77 Cutlass

That is an awesome looking car, great looking color.Congrats

ah64pilot

Ok fella's, I blew a head gasket on Sunday...after troubleshooting a cooling system problem I drove the car to my father in law's house. When I got back in to leave it wouldn't crank. Long story short, as it sat the #8 cylinder filled with water and hydro-locked.

I pulled the motor out, pulled the heads and took them to the machine shop to get checked. I pulled the bottom end apart to check bearings (particularly #8)...everything looks like new. Other than the head gaskets, and a broken lifter (both of which came from you know where) everything looks fine. I got away with this one I think.

By the end of it, I will run the Fel-Pro 1155's ($205.98 - set) and a new set of Lunati lifters ($95.99) and put it all back together. I'm a little worried about the thinner gasket but I guess it'll be alright. My deck height is -.005" and the gasket is .039" so the quench should be perfect, which will make my compression raise to 10.71:1.

I guess it's not a bad thing because after this I will have replaced all of the parts I got from Mondello (all of which broke). And I'll end up with a little more power, and that's always a good thing

Steve

380 Racer

Steve, Have you determined what happened to the gasket? What amount of torque are you using on the head bolts/studs? We found that ARP's amount was not enough. I'll have to look it up so I don't tell you the wrong amount tho.

ah64pilot

Nick, I originally torqued them to 85 ft/lbs using a 3 step sequence but after the dyno I retorqued them to 90 ft/lbs.

I don't know if the failure was from the gasket or the torque. I'm using ARP 7/16" studs...and the gaskets were Mondello .061" head gaskets they recommended for the Edelbrocks.

I am going to the FelPro 1155's. I'd appreciate the torque you guys used, I don't think 85 is enough either.

cutlassefi

Sorry to hear about your luck but glad to hear you didn't do any further damage.
I've used the Fel Pro 8171 and Mr Gasket Ultra Seals, both with very good luck.

Keep us posted.

P.S. I'd call ARP before I changed the torque on anything.

507OLDS

I would put Cometics on there.From what I have seen & dealt with,on friends cars & such,the orange Fel-Pros don't always cut it either.The gaskets that come in the Edelbrock package,for the Olds Edelbrock heads,look like Fel-Pro blues,which I have had great luck with,for iron heads,but I wouldn't use them with aluminum heads.

380 Racer

Mine are 1/2" and torqued to 105# with ARP lube (thought it was more ) . Use .040 Cometics. I guess it was with the Marine gaskets that we had to go higher because of the damn fire ring not crushing.

ah64pilot

Damn, I already ordered the 1155's from Summit and they price matched Amazon so I got them for $70 each.

So the verdict is to use the .040" Cometics and keep the torque at 85 ft/lbs?

I am also replacing all the lifters because the rocker failure I had in February ruined one...they are from Mondello so I figure it can't hurt to get them out of there.

hotrodpc

Summit is not bad at returns. Just don't open the package and refuse it, then it gets a free ride back to Summit. Hopefully they are smart enough to handle a refused package since it won't have an RA # on it. Or, I guess you could write an RA # on the back of it, but I wouldn't let the carrier see you write it on there.

ah64pilot

Nah, I'm not gonna do anything like that. Besides, I ordered enough gaskets for both cars so I need 1/2 of the order lol!

hotrodpc

You can still return them then, you'll just have to pay for the ride back and be sure to get an RMA # first. Usually they aren't to bad on returns as long as you have an RMA.

ah64pilot

I guess I'll be sending them back...just got off the phone with Nickens and they had to surface the heads. I'm going to run a thicker gasket than the .039" Fel Pro. I'm getting into 11:1 territory and I don't want to be. Oh well, I'll order some Cometics from BTR once I CC the heads.

hotrodpc

Either that, or go with a bigger cam with more overlap and bring the dynamic CR down from the Static CR. If your valvetrain is built for it. You're buying lifters anyway.

ah64pilot

Nah, the car runs so well I don't want to mess with it too much. But if we ran 12.11 @ 112 with a going bad head gasket it makes me optimistic of what it will do with a good head gasket and a little more compression. Shoot, I haven't even done the suspension or rear end yet lol!

hotrodpc

I know what you mean. Sometimes it's just so hard to discipline yourself to hold back on what you know is working, when there might be a chance to pick another tenth. That's the nature of the sport. Always looking to gain another mph and/or knock off another tenth.