citcapp

Sounds great

hotrodpc

I hate threads like this !!! Now I've got to go change pants AGAIN !!! Shoulda put a diaper warning on this one.

ah64pilot

I should have, you're right! I just drove it for the first time tonight...wow! 40MPH stomp breaks the 295/50's loose...I guess I need some stickier tires lol!

Bill in NC

Looking good man! I guarantee you need some sticky tires lol. My hp/tq numbers are slightly lower than what you're running and without the Drag Radials and LCA relocation brackets the thought of traction is just a joke on my 275's.

ah64pilot

It took us about 2 hours to get it all hooked up to the dyno. I am friends with Dan DaVinci and Dennis Faerman so I was there all day helping. I took the motor as if it was going to run in the car, less the accessories and fuel pump. I made a block off plate for the fuel pump, put hose caps on water pump heater outlets, plugged up unused manifold vacuum / water ports, and RTV'd a bolt for the dipstick hole. I am running a MSD 6AL and distributor but I used the 7A box they had there to run the distributor. If you are using an HEI or Standalone MSD distributor you don't need to worry about the ignition box. The other thing I brought - 5 gallons of 93 octane.

I didn't have the shop that did the machine work do the dyno because at the time I wasn't going to have it dyno'd, and I assembled the longblock myself. Another reason is that I wanted DaVinci to tune the carburetor and didn't want to make him drive 20 miles to the other machine shop.

Thanks Bill! I know I need them, the 295/50's I've got won't stop spinning in 2nd gear unless I let out of the throttle...and I've got Southside Machine (RIP) lower drag bars, no shocks up front (yet), and posi rear. I've got drag radials in the garage but I still need to mount them. I plan on running it in 3 weeks, we'll see if that holds.

Vega

I like your build, its just about exactly what i plan to do with my 72' supreme. I plan to make it triple black and clone it to a 71' SX, painting the 455 gold, more just because i like a gold motor better than blue, everyone has blue motors its a pretty boring color anymore honestly. Gold just stands out. I planned to have 442 grills in mine too, hurst dual gate shifter, and a very similar build in the motor cept mine will have stock high compression 69' pistons and Ga iron heads but the rest will be almost the exact same. I hope my numbers turn out close to yours! Id be bummed if not having edelbrocks killed a decent chunk of my performance haha. Also im interested in just how much performance is gained from boring it out. I almost think its more of just something to do to rebuild the block and get the cylinders working properly again than to really gain any performance. Just my 2 cents haha. Love the build, gives me great insight into my project!

ah64pilot

I am not trying to be a buzz kill...I don't know if you're going to make that kind of power with Ga heads. My true compression is 10.63:1 with IC886's that are flat top w/ 14cc valve reliefs, a .040" gasket, and 77cc Edelbrock heads. I don't know what the dish size is the '69 pistons but I know the Ga heads have large chambers. You may have a hard time getting over 10:1 compression. Also, the Edelbrocks flow just about what a lightly ported "C" head flows...the Ga's don't come close to that. You can do it, but you are going to have those heads worked considerably.

Maybe Brian or Mark will look at this and give you their recommendations. I would tend to think you'd be looking at around 425-450 hp with the setup you are contemplating depending on how much you work the heads.

Lee_A

Stephen,

Glad you had fun at Faerman's and with Dan. I may have told you, but that is where I dyno'ed my previous SBF (I won't post the numbers ). My headers wouldn't fit the dyno, and I had to run over to Westside Performance to borrow a set - I could have used THEM to dyno the motor, and they charged less!! Then, we had to use my motor mounts, and one of them BROKE on about the 9th pull - which scared the hell out of ALL of us. Of course, *I* had to go find some other motor mounts.... I still got about 15 or so pulls that day, and got to know Dan much better.

Oh, turn that Blaster II coil to point upwards. They have a plastic membrane sealing the oil to the coils, and it has a tendency to leak, killing the coil. Those coils tend to last longer when you orient them so that the membrane is there just for backup, not being constantly used.

Lee

ah64pilot

I enjoyed the experience...but it was a lot or work, for both myself and Jeff (machinist). I used them because Dan was right there and Faerman was the same price as Nickens, and it saved Dan a drive. It was good to find all (1) the leaks and get them sealed up before putting it in the car. It is so nice to have a clean garage floor under this old car

Hey, I believe I am going to try to hit Baytown on the first week of November. I've got to get some drag radials mounted and drive it a little more before we go. I'll let you know, it would be cool to meet you in person!

Lee_A

Did you test different valve lashes? On my solid roller SBF, I found nearly 15hp peak and 25 midrange by playing with the lash (rwhp).

Let me know about going to the track. If you still have my e-mail, that will be the best way to get ahold of me.

Lee

ah64pilot

I really didn't...I set it at .020" - .022" and let it be. I guess I could have, it may have put me over 500 Kinda sad I didn't now! I've got your email, I just sent one...

Thanks for the coil tip, I'll change it around tomorrow!

Vega

Naw thats okay, a little constructive criticism is alright, keeps me in the real world haha. Honestly from what ive gathered all the BBO heads have the same size chambers (save for a few exotics) but i know the Cs and Gas have the same size (80cc), i also heard all of the heads flow very very similar with Cs being the best only by a slight margain. As far as compression goes ive got that worked out pretty well but i know my numbers will most certainly be lower than a motor with Edelbrocks. I will be trying to get some better flow from the heads through machine work but it still wont flow what Edelbrocks will. Im alright with that though, honestly im building the motor more for torque than horsepower. I figure if you want horsepower there are easier ways to make it in more economical motors, but for torque big blocks are king haha. Honestly 425-450hp would be just fine by me, i didnt really have a horsepower number in mind with my build but was aiming for 500 torque if possible

Vega

Thanks, yeah i planned to have the block decked some and then use a small gasket (i found a .020 copper one im interested in). That or i might just skip decking the block and mill the heads since theyre getting worked on anyway, plus i can always swap heads but swapping my block would be much harder haha. Ive been using Summit's compression calculator to plan my attack, using the 14cc 69' pistons, assuming deck is .035 (havent had a chance to actually measure yet but this is a good assumption from what ive gathered), then i can swap out gasket sizes and head milling numbers to find out exactly what i need. Im aiming for anything from 9.5-10 or so. Will have the heads ported with valve job and larger intake. I like the Ga heads as far as iron heads go because they have deeper spring seats which are good for higher lift cams and they have the hardened valve seats. I think only the Gas and Js had the hardened valve seats from the factory and im glad to have Ga over J haha. Its also kind of cool because the Cutlass i just bought is a 72' which is the year of the Gas. Honestly im still planning my attack on it, kind of waffling on cam selection, going to go with a more conservative cam now than i had originally planned because i will be running an auto and originally planned a 4-speed. And right now the engine build is still quite a ways away but im still researching and planning and listening to oppinions, ive got lots of time and patience and just want to do it right the first time. As for output, honestly im just aiming for 400hp/500tq, anything above that is icing on the cake

firefrost gold

more on the f heads please . how close can they get a F or D head to 300 plus cfm?

BosMobile

Hey guys,where's the video link?Can't find it and im dying to hear this monster!!Thanks,BO

ah64pilot

Dyno:



Running in car:

firefrost gold

Did you ever dyno the w-30 or your 31 for that matter

firefrost gold

Did they have rods and jets to try or do you have to bring all the toys

ah64pilot

If I play with it how would I know whether or not I'm making more power? I don't trust my proprioceptive senses (seat of the pants).

Bill in NC

Your 60' times and MPH at the big end should tell you if you're heading in the right direction.

firefrost gold

by the linear feet of rubber you put down.

Lee_A

The dyno is the most accurate method. With the engine on the stand, at a nice workable height, in a climate controlled room.... With that opportunity lost, I'd suggest the chassis dyno.

It takes more work and time on a chassis dyno, but it is more accurate and easier than doing it at the track - especially since it is hard to get more than 4 or 5 passes during a whole night in Baytown, with so many people there.

My cam card said to lash at .026/.026 (UltraDyne solid roller). After several rounds of testing, .021/.024 made more power everywhere. 0.002" either way of the intake lash (.021) and I lost several hp.

ah64pilot

My cam card said .018 / .020 (cold), we broke it in at that and then adjusted them to .020 / .022 hot. We did notice a gain but it's hard to tell if it was from the lash or the rings coming in.

I'll hit you up for the chassis dyno when it's time for it I wanna get the electric fuel pump installed before I do that. I'm gonna run it like it is for now, just to get a base timeslip for it. I'm running a stock fuel pump because I don't have money right now for the electric setup and no one makes a mechanical setup that clears Edelbrocks, uh hem BRIAN TRICK!

Anyway, I hooked up the power brake booster tonight...works at cruise at least lol! And I fixed the coil like you suggested And I washed and detailed it...first time since it was painted!

ah64pilot

As it is right now it will stop spinning 2nd gear...when you let out of the throttle. I'm not so sure that's going to help me LOL! It shreds those 295/50 like they are 3" runners.

ah64pilot

It's a little later than expected but we will have 1/4 mile timeslips after next weekend. We are planning to go on Feb. 10 so long as the weather holds out. Look for updates after then...thanks!

Steve

67Olds442X2

Steve

Good luck with the run coming up. Hopefully you won't have to put a roll cage in for any other runs if you know what I mean
I may run mine this year at MIR but need to do some suspension work first. Might need to put disc brakes up front first also. The 70 series tires in the back won't work either.

Be safe.

ah64pilot

Dan, I do too...I've got big block springs up front with no shocks and the car is still stiff as a brick. With all the aluminum up front and the fiberglass hood it doesn't move at all. I'm taking it to get a baseline, then I'll put Moroso springs and QA1 shocks on it. I've just been waiting to get it all done before I take it but I am running out of patience. I'm itching to run it!

Steve

therobski

AH64 pilot, 11k is good value for that build and it will live. I got over 8K in this 455, very similar build except my E-heads are out of the box. I did have the Torker port matched to the heads though. Your in Houston? Lot of Texas guys in this forum. Maybe some of us could plan a meet?? I installed a Holley125 electric pump, this one has a built in pressure regulator, reads right at 7psi. But the BIG the THING is Your thread has got me stoked for my 425 build for the 64 post.
IMG_1271.jpg
DSCN1723-1.jpg

ah64pilot

Shoot man, head up to Houston and hit the dragstrip with us next friday. Oldsmorat is going, JoesW31 and LeeA may go, I'll be there for sure. I tried to convince SickyOlds to go but he's got plans. It should be a good time.

Texas Jim

I have to say that having your build dynoed is money well spent, infact the best thing you can do w/ your money. It not only makes your build run to the best of it's ability, but w/ some experimentation, swapping afew bolt-on components in the process, you can find out what else will make it run better w/ the least amount of work and/or money spent. Would be a serious shame having an engine that could perform better than what you're getting out of it and you not reaping those benefits. Fine-tuning is where you get that slight edge, which makes ALL the diffference, especially if you're dealing w/ the big boys in a specific class and need those hundredths or thousandths to "take the cake." ...along w/ reaction time.
***I KNOW you know what I'm talking about...

ah64pilot

Joesw31 had it dynoed last week. I'll let him share the details but for a 350 its pretty impressive. I'll text him & get him to post his numbers up.

507OLDS

I have access to a Mustang Dyno,chassis dyno about 1 mile from my house.I have the engine dynoed to get a good baseline,to get it running before it goes in the car,then it goes on the chassis dyno.That way,the engine can be tuned to the exact car that it is in.This is different than a Dyno-Jet,where it just spins a drum.With the Mustang Dyno,we enter all the data possible,engine,trans,weight of car,etc.,which places a drag on the drum.This way you get the actual HP that is at the rear wheels as if you were driving the car down the raod.We are also able to make 1/4 mile passes on it.It is one of the most accurate dynos out there.My car will run in the same tenth on that dyno,as it does at the track,and when I leave,I know it's tuned the best it can be.I have also been able to make the drivability better,by looking at where the engine needed improvement.

Texas Jim

Big block springs up front? In the '60s and early '70s, guys just went w/ 6 cyl. springs up front to get the weight transfer needed. I do know there are high dollar springs and shocks out there that work well. Anything to get the power to the pavement and not "up in smoke."

ah64pilot

No, I was saying I did the front end but I put the big block springs back in because I didn't have the extra money for new springs. I'm going to run the car this Friday like it is, but will get Moroso trick springs later this month. After doing the front end last year, I wasn't exactly motivated to tear it all apart to put springs in it lol!

ah64pilot

Times aren't even worth posting...the stock fuel pump is extremely insufficient for this build. The car is nosing over going into 2nd gear and never catches up. Turning off the track and heading back into pits car has a hung idle to 1800 RPM's. Will be installing an electric fuel pump setup and heading back out.

Steve

ah64pilot

Woohoo! Nothing like a free Holley Blue 120 gph pump, regulator, and filter to get you motivated! Now all I've got to do is plumb this thing, any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Getting RobbMC 1/2" pickup w/ -10 AN fittings, plan on getting -10 AN braided hose to filter, pump, regulator, then -8 AN braided hose to carb. Good? Bad?

Steve

380 Racer

I use two #8s from cell to the filter/pump set-up. Have a bypass right after the pump that dumps back into the cell (#8 line), then #8 up to the pressure regulator which then has two #6 lines to the carb. #6 lines will more than feed the needle & seats. My pump/filter is a Magna Fuel and I went by their suggestions.

Lee_A

I hate the Holley red/blue pumps, WAY too noisey. Mallory 140's have worked great for MANY years for me, and much less noise - but for a FREE pump....

My Falcon and my Firebird both had -8 all the way to the regulator, then -6 to the carb. My OLD Falcon motor made 545/545 on Faerman's dyno, and my current motor makes about 70 (on a chassis dyno, never been on an engine dyno) hp more - so I don't think you "need" the -10/-8 combo.

On my Cutlass project, I'm going -8 from the RobbMC pickup to the pump, then will have -6 forward and return lines - and that will also be a 500hp motor.

Also on the Cutlass, I'm using nylon-braided with push-lock fittings. Lighter, easier, a bit cheaper, and supposedly the push-lock hose stands up better to the alcohol in our fuel. I'm NOT changing out the braided stainless on my other cars until I have a problem, though!

Lee

380 Racer

Also I suggest installing the filter before the pump (helps save the pump). You can also use 1/2" aluminum hard line from pump to reg. Had that on my car for a few years. #10 is overkill for you (and myself). My motor produced 730 HP and #8 works just fine.

ah64pilot

I was thinking -10 was 1/2" hose...-8 is what I meant. I'll go -8 from tank to filter / pump / regulator, and -6 to carb. I would like to put the regulator right next to the carb and have the -8 to regulator and then 2 -6's to the carb. I've seen a couple of setups but I'm not sure I like them. Do you guys have any pics or suggestions? Thanks!

- Steve