Nitroracer

I would like to upgrade from the points on my 64' Fiesta wagon, to an electronic pickup but I haven't had much luck finding a conversion kit. Later oldsmobiles are covered, and of course your standard SBC and SBF but nothing for the 394 - Have I missed it somewhere? Surely the distributor isn't that special that I can't fit a kit for another delco distributor.

oldcutlass

Pertronix, see Summit link:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...-size/6-5l-394

Nitroracer

When I ran the ID tag on my distributor (1111033) through the Pertronix website it didn't bring back any results that matched a 394.

RetroRanger

try calling pertronix they helped me fit a unit into a 1948 tractor that wasnt listed

redoldsman

If you have the original Delco distributor, there will not be a problem. That was the same distributor all the way back to 1957 when they went to the external adjustment points. The top is the same as all other GM products of that year.

Olds64

I put a Pertronix kit in my 394 distributor on my 1964 98. It worked great.

Nitroracer

Any opinions on one pertronix system versus another? I see three different types are available and the prices aren't too bad.

$78 1181 - I
$82 91181 - II
$116 1181LS - Lobe Sensing

MDchanic

I like the III or Lobe Sensing model, because there are fewer parts to install and fewer parts to fail.

They've all got good reputations, though.

- Eric

chequenman

You can't forget that if you use the 91181-II, or the 1181LS you'll need to use a Pertronix 0.6 OHM's Coil as well.

MDchanic

It doesn't say that anywhere on their web site.

- Eric

chequenman

Just a note I found....
Features

Ignitor II systems develop up to 4 times more energy between 3000 and 5000 RPM than standard ignition systems. High RPM performance is improved when used with the Flame-Thrower II super low resistance (0.6 ohms) 45,000 volt coil.

• Adaptive dwell maintains peak energy throughout the entire RPM range, reducing misfires while improving engine performance.
• Develops on average 4 times more available energy between 3000 and 5000 RPM, and 2 times more available plug voltage.
• Peak current level is reached just prior to spark for maximum energy without the heat build-up, increasing coil and module life.
• Adjusts spark timing at higher RPMs to compensate for the inherent electronic delay.
• Senses startup and develops more energy for quicker, easier starting. Built in reverse polarity and over current protection shuts down the system, preventing component damage.
• Legal in all 50 states and Canada (C.A.R.B. E.O. #D-57-2).
• Guaranteed for 30 months.

MDchanic

"High RPM performance is improved when used with the Flame-Thrower II super low resistance (0.6 ohms) 45,000 volt coil."

It will work with the stock coil, but will deliver better high RPM performance with their own coil.

The average 394 will never see anything north of 4,000 RPM.

- Eric

chequenman

You said it didn't say anywhere that the 0.6 ohms coil was applicable and I posted where it is said. The application for the II, and the LS is applicable for those two, and lots of "394" Guy's that have built up their 394's, do go north of 4,000 and also have that torque that the 394's deliver..... I'm using the Flame Thrower II, and added the 0.6 ohms for those moments of exhilaration!!!!

oldcutlass

Wiring diagram comparison to points ignition vs igniter II system with and without their coil. Note, if substitute resistance wire in place of ballast resistor if your car is so equipped. Either way the module requires a full 12v.

MDchanic

I said that it didn't say on their web site that it was required.

You can review the thread and see that.

Obviously, if a person needs increased performance because of a non-factory configuration, he may need to change parts, such as using a different coil, regardless of whether he uses an electronic trigger or points.
The OP simply asked whether he could get one of these for his '64 wagon, and said nothing about this being a high-performance application, and the answer is that this will fit.

- Eric

chequenman

Hey!!! Whatever....

distributorguy

As a distributor rebuilder, I can say Pertronix adds a new level of problems you might not want to get into. With that said, use the Pertronix I if you must install one. The LS (lobe sensing) model is prone to more misfires from the way it triggers. Plug wire noise (the same noise that can upset your radio) causes a mild misfire that you won't sense, but you'll see it in an air/fuel graph on the dyno. Generally a solid 5-10% power loss guaranteed. Its a last-resort option for vehicles where points are NLA. Even then I have custom made points to avoid the problems.
If you use the Perrtronix II or III you DO need to use the .6 Ohm coil or you will experience an impossible to tune idle, and a significant power loss versus points. I chose points myself. Just request the premium points for a '69 Corvette at Napa and you'll get the best available.

MDchanic

As someone who always tells people to stick with points as their first option, and as someone who is therefore completely biased, I thank you for supporting my generally philosophical advice with hard facts.

I was not aware of those facts about the Pertronix units.

The engine I'm using now came with a Crane lobe-sensing trigger and I replaced it with points because I didn't like the way that it scrambled my tachometer at higher RPMs, making the advance hard to dial in.
Do the same negatives apply to the Crane units?

Also, IF the Pertronix cannot run well with the factory higher resistance system, can you explain why? It would seem on the surface that an electronic switch (thyristor? transistor? I don't know...) switching between +12V and ground would provide the same performance regardless of the resistance.

Thanks!

- Eric

btw

Same system, same great results!

distributorguy

Crane is more sensitive to RFI than EMI. Both are present in any distributor.
I don't design electronics, but some folks who have went through the components in the Pertronix I/II and couldn't realize how cheap they went with their use of electronic components. The end effect is poor function. Its not my specialty - I just see the end effect on the dyno.

I do believe that RFI issues with Pertronix are decreased in the Delco distributors versus other brands, but the problem still exists. The lobe sensing technology is a very poor methodology. Most people install it because their lobes aren't lifting the points evenly and causing a misfire or timing variations cylinder to cylinder. The same continues to happen...

Pertronix steals about 1V from your coil input. The technology in the II and III systems steals more, hence the need for a higher output coil. If you could source voltage from another circuit (not from the coil) this effect may be decreased? But not if you're stealing from the same wire upstream a little further.