Just a thought, maybe one of the members that's really close to you could have a listen and see. I'm not as lucky up here in montreal with few members. But you guys seem to have an Oldsmobile Brotherhood going on!

 

Were all brothers from other mothers who share a common bond. OLDSMOBILES!!!!! LOL

I only keep putting off the timing chain because I dread changing it HAHA

 

just found out what the cam is. he sent me an email and this is what he had to say in his words. i hope this helps.

" The cam in the green 442 is a Lunatti 292 racing cam. It is a stick cam (manual 4spd). I was experimenting with a 4 spd cam with a automatic tranny. It ran ok but had not enough vaccum at idle to operate the power brakes. I had the idle at about 900-1000 rpm.That with the torque converter made it hard to stop at a stop sign. Probably too much cam overlap for low rpm-idle. Since it is a stick cam (racing) it might not work with the pressure from the converter at idle."

 

forgive me if I missed it but what compression is this motor and what other mods have been done? you said you replaced a fulcrum so is this running stock rockers? have the guides been cut down? .555 lift seems like a lot on stock valvetrain. if this is a stock 8:1 motor it may never run with that much cam and a really loose converter. Lunati says 10:1 or better and 3000 up converter.

 

Voodoo Hyd Cam - Oldsmobile V8 284/292

Product Description


Hydraulic. Serious street or bracket cam for 350-455 c.i. engines in slightly lighter vehicles. Will need 10.1 or better compression, 3000-3500 stall speed converter and 3.73-4.11 gears. Like up to 250 HP nitrous. Cam has a very radical idle quality!

• Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 284/292
• Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 241/249
• Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .539/.555
• LSA/ICL: 110/106
• Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
• RPM Range: 2400-6200
• Includes: Cam Only

Part Number: 10420705
Previoius Part Number: 60805

 

i did not pay any attention to the piston dish when i took the F heads off of it but i think it was a 10.25 compression engine. may be a little less with the felpro gaskets. i did look at the cylinders and they looked great. i put big valve C heads back on it. to be honest, i don't know much about the heads i put on it. i got them from the same guy i got the car from. they had a tag that said fresh valve job. he said they were done by a friend of his. i had a strait edge across them and looked pretty even.

it is also a stock converter

 

based on what the cam is I doubt it will want to idle below 1000 rpm or so and the stock converter will kill it a stop light. with that lift is it possible the spring retainer is touching the guide? carbs work off vacuum so if it is too low the idle circuit will not work properly unless the carb has had a lot of mods.

 

So that makes the motor about, what, 9 or 9.5:1 (remember, most of these had less compression than the nominal number to start with)?
With a stock converter (stall about, I don't know, 1200?).

What's your car's weight and rear end ratio, Indy?

Sounds like we may be getting to the bottom of this problem.

My unsolicited recommendation would be to pull the front cover, check the cam for correct timing, then pull the darn thing out and replace it with something you can drive on the street. You can always use it later for a rebuild.

- Eric

 

i have a used lunati 31801 cam and matched lifters marked for each lobe. the guy i got them from said they only had 4000 miles on them but i have no idea. i have the receipt from when they bought the cam and it was in 1986. not sure if this would work better for you but i will bring them tonight.

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 285/300
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 228/235
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .496/.496
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 2600-5600

 

now that i look, that is what the receipt has on it. the cam is marked Lunati

B5AB 110
SPD1310

i have no idea if these stampings are the same as the 31801 or not.

 

Edit to be more clear when I said "This cam" below, I mean the Cam Eric gave me tonight that we thought was a 31801 Cam. It's actually a 31803 from the numbers off the cam I ran. I posted details from it below, I am not clear on cams so not sure if this one you gave me is better off than whats in there or will it be the same results.


This cam is actually a 31803. I found this by taking the SPD1-310 which is the Grind# mix in the 110 which is the lobe separation and the only cam that comes back from Lunati with that grind number and that Lobe Separation is cam part number 31803 I found on this list of acceptable Oldsmobile camshafts.

http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/70RagTop/camlist.html

You will see it's listed under a drag race camshaft and specs as follows. 31803 SPD1-310 3000-6200 IN 310 EX 310 IN 241 EX 241 IN .494 EX .494 110 DEGREES FAIR IDLE WORKS WELL IN 350 BRACKET CAR WITH 10"CONVERTOR AND INCREASED COMPRESSION.

Is this going to work for what I need it to do which is daily driven street car?

 

Lunati 31803 Street/Strip Oldsmobile All V-8 (1968-Present) Hydraulic Cam Hydraulic Camshaft, Duration 310/310, Lift .494"/.494", LSA/ICL 110/106Hydraulic; Fair idle. Good cam for bracket racing with 350 cubic inch motors.Needs 3000-3500 RPM stall converter, headers, 9.5:1 compression ratio orbetter and 3.73 gearing or better.
Cam & Lifter Kit:N/A
Adv. Duration:310/310
Duration @ 0.050" :241/241
Gross Valve Lift:.494"/.494"
Lobe Separation Angle / Intake Centerline:110/106
Valve Lash:Hyd/Hyd
Lifters:71951PR
Springs:73126
Retainers:75702LUN
Locks:77034
Valve Spring Kit:93126K2LUN
Timing Set:93017LUN
Pushrods:
Rocker Arms:
RPM Range:3000-6200

 

I’d say this is the best answer so far...simply mismatched parts. Too radical of a cam for the street. Put a street able cam it so you can enjoy it. Inspect the valve train for evidence of bind.

 

Swap cams, that one you have should make it much more fun to drive.

 

So the consensus is that I need to swap the cam to the 31803? The specs say it's good for street/strip bracket racing, and says it needs a stall converter with it as well. Thats one thing I don't want to do is put a stall converter in the car. This is my DD so I need it to be streetable as much as possible.

 

I would spring for a cam that works well with your current setup.

- Eric

 

agreed, any cam that is calling for a looser converter is going to unhappy around traffic. if you dont want to make the other changes the cam calls for you need to find one that works with a stock converter and stock intake, exhaust manifolds, etc. there are plenty of good cams out there that will make for a good strong streetable car.

 

If I read everything right above ...

The cam you want to put in there comes on at a higher RPM than what you're replacing.

3000-6200 RPM vs 2400-6200 RPM.

I'll admit I'm no cam expert ...

But if the total package you have now doesn't want to play nice with the 2400+ RPM cam ...

I'd think that 3000+ RPM cam would only be worse.

 

Yea I hear ya fellas. I am no cam expert either thats why I am getting opionions here. I will try and do some searching and see if I can find a near stock cam with maybe just a step or 2 up that needs no additional convertor or such. If I knew I could just put in a torque convertor with what I have now and get it more streetable I would. I have just never drove a car very long with a high torque convertor so not sure what that would be like in stop and go traffic for daily use.

I had a 75 camaro I bought for parts that had a 2400 stall in it. As I drove it home from buying it I didn't much care for it. Made me feel like i was in neutral at every stop light. Everytime I went to take off it would rev way up and then go hard. The car idled at 1200 RPM, it was just wierd. I could see advantageous of a stall for dragging but not for DD use. Just wasn't my cup of tee.

If any one has a good suggestion on cam for me the advice would be well appreciated. The block is stock I believe and the heads are big valve C heads. Believe Eric put on a felpro gasket on the heads. I am running dual exhaust but no headers as of yet. I will be putting headers on within a week. So I will plan on full exhaust as being a mod. I also have an edelbrock 700 carb and will be using an RPM intake. Dist I will more than likely keep points if anything upgrade to a higher output ignition. I don't plan on putting any stall in the convertor unless its a small one.

 

From the description of your current set up, yes you definitely have way too much cam not a large vacuum leak as we all thought. Although with a cam that large in a stock engine you could consider it a large vacuum leak…HaHa.
What I’d recommend because I’m not a cam expert either is… Get all your info gathered such as your static compression ratio, rear end gears, exhaust, ignition etc...Then call a couple of the cam manufactures tech support lines and let them tell you what would be a good choice for that set up. This is what they do all day so follow their advice. Tell them what results you’re looking for.
A popular choice for a set up similar to what you currently have is a grind similar to a 70 W30 cam. The stick shift W30 cam is a decent all around cam. I’m running one with a mildly built 68 400 automatic engine with about 400hp, 11:1 comp, 2800 stall converter with, believe it or not, a 308 posi. Stock valve train, intake, Q-jet, exhaust manifolds etc…Car moves out of its own way well, gets off the line quick, and runs at about 2800rpm at 65-70 (TH400) at least that’s what the tic-toc says. The idle has a very slight lope. So you may want to go with the automatic W30 cam or a standard 400/455 442 cam etc… There has been a large improvement in computer generated cam profiles today. So you can get a relatively aggressive cam by yester year’s standards that will behave like a smaller cam yet wake up when you throw the coals to it. Kind of the best of both worlds, sort of.
I think you would be happy with a 2600-2800 stall converter. My current car behaves quite nicely on the street. Your above description of how that Camaro behaved tells me you had a much looser converter than you thought, say more like a 3500 or better, not 2600. My car doesn’t feel much looser than a stock converter. Comes off idle nicely etc…I’ve been using similar set ups for many years for my street driven cars, 400 & 455s. An HEI is also a great upgrade.

 

Love the description on the cam thats in there now... Lunati's Voodoo series of Hydraulic camshafts deliver more area under the curve than any other series of Hydraulic camshafts. This means more throttle response, quicker acceleration, more vacuum, better efficiency, combined with maximum horsepower and torque!

More wha???? LOL

I will say that the car is pretty fun to drive coming off the line but as far as power at speed... blah. I am going to look into some newer cams and see what is out there that compares to stock specs and grind. Then go a step or 2 above that. Like stated before, the car is basiclly stock out side of the few things I will do to it so there is really no need to go much higher than what the 1970 442 came with. I don't plan on racing, I want to drive this back and forth to work and be somewhat good on gas. I know thats an oxymoron when saying that towards a 42 year old 455 but it's really not that bad as it is. I drive 70 miles round trip to work and I had 3/4 Tank and I drove Thurs, Fri, all over on Sat for local meet, drove to work this AM and I still have quarter tank. I've even did some WOT from a roll's to see what kind of power she has. I can only imagine a smaller cam getting same or better fuel economy.

So right now Im going to look into W30 cams only using newer cam specs/grinds etc. Get one a step or 2 hotter to account for my planned mods and call it a day. Unless someone has a better suggestion from experience on how there car turned out with same mods or similar.

Thanks again everyone and droldsmorland for the helpfull information.

 

Looks like I will be going with a cam around these specs for those interested. If you think this is going to be too much or too less please feel free to voice yourself. I take all advice in and weight it.

I am leaning towards this cam as of now.
Exhaust Lift (Inches) : .310"
Intake Lift (Inches) : .295"
.472" Valve Lift, Intake
.496" Valve Lift, Exhaust
Duration at .050"
214 Degree Intake
224 Degree Exhaust
112 Degree Lobe Spread
Lobe Centerline (Exhaust) : 118 Deg
Lobe Centerline (Intake) : 107 Deg
Overlap : 61 Deg


Or this Voodoo Cam is supposed to be a decent on for a mild 455

Hydraulic. Torque Monster for 400-455 c.i. daily driven street performance vehicle. Excellent torque and horsepower production with heavier emphasis on the low to mid range. Will work in ski boat applications with larger 455 c.i. engines. Choppy idle!

• Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
• Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
• Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .499/.510
• LSA/ICL: 112/108
• Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
• RPM Range: 1300-5500
• Includes: Cam Kit

Part Number: 10420702LK

 

So is there any update on your idle and stumbling issues? I've been following this intensely.

 

Yea, if you read through you would see the issue was the Previous Owner installed the wrong cam or a very LARGE cam without changing the supporting valve train such as push rods and springs. This was causing the engine to run like complete CRAP.

I installed the cam referenced above including lifters and pushrods and car has ran great since. Matter of fact, I am thoroughly impressed with the power of this car since doing this cam install.

 

SOOO glad you figured this out. I was reading along intently, thinking it was the timing chain or something along that lines, then the cam specs were posted.....YIKES !!

Well, glad we all got the prob solved...& that you are enjoying your Olds again. Well done !!