Al2011

My machinist runs a race shop and seems knowledgable with Fords & Chevy because he races them. But seems to beleive all blocks are machined the same. He's working on my short block only since I have new heads. After removing my stock bolts he installed ARP main studs, tightened the caps and measured. He said the align hone was fine and if there was an issue the studs could have corrected it. Has anyone else had a similar issue since everyone says when switching to studs align hone is necessary. Also I have a reconditioned crank shaft .010 .010 and he leaves it in the manufacturer (box) packaging laying on it's side. Does the way it's packaged stop it from warping? It took him 1 week to resize the rods because he said the tool a dremmel or something was lost and he couldn't find it. I went to this machine shop because they said they have torque plates for olds and no other machine shop does in my area. I'm testing this shop to pass the information to local olds hobbyists. I also gave him BTR Racing clearances made a copy from the book and he said they are not neccessary since the crank and bearing never touch each other and ride on a film of oil. He said just to keep the RPM down and work with the torque. it gets confusing when reading posts and books then the machinist has his own ways.

Rickman48

It should be packaged to keep from warping, as in shipping and on stockroom shelves, it's laid down.
If he measured the mains, and said they're alright, I'd take his word for it, as he's talked himself out of $1-200 procedure.
As far as him not wanting to do the BTR clearances, I'd ask him how much extra he'd charge to follow them?
If he refuses, ask him what you owe him so far, pay him, and find another shop!

Al2011

Thank you for the reply that was very helpful. He charges 240 for the align hone so that makes sense. At first i was thinking he didn't want to bother because he has bigger projects. I don't think he's even going to look at the new crank since i'm assembling the motor. I'll pay him today for the machine work and the crank in the box then I'll take the crank somewhere else for the BTR clearances. Thanks again. it's my first build

cutlassefi

I'd find another machinist, or at very least have him show you the Olds torque plate.
He doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

bigD

his statement about not needing the btr clearances because the crank and bearings never touch tells me that he doesn't know squat... that is the amazing! not only would i take my stuff elsewhere i'd pay a fair rate to have his work double checked... torque plates for olds mototrs are available... if i remember right they're only about $150 bucks, might be a good investment...

i stand corrected, i just did a quick search and they are in the $400-$500 price range... i could have sworn i saw some for $150...

compedgemarine

I am still trying to figure out how he resizes rods with a dremel tool. in any motor the crank and rods do not touch if there is any clearance. that is not the point. it has to do with the size of the journal and the amount of oil filling the void. the crank is always trying to squish the oil out from between them so the clearance is designed to ensure that there is always a oil film there. every engine is designed with different clearances based on the journal diameter, the rpm it runs, the design of the oil system and pump volumn, etc. I would say that if everyone has had good luck with the clearances BTR has come up with then they have done the work of finding the best combination for these motors. any machine shop that refuses to learn the differences is probably not the best choice.

cutlassefi

I did a 455 with BTR clearances, never again. Had a helluva time getting decent oil pressure. Had to shim the pump a bunch.
If you follow the rule of .001 clearance per inch of journal size you should be fine.
My guy does my stuff the right way, bore it with a BHJ Bor-Tru and hones it with a torque plate. That's after it's align honed and square decked, in that order.

compedgemarine

I have never read what the BTR specs are so I assumed they are something that works. I have always gone with the .001 per inch rule also except on some of the high rpm stuff which was slightly over. of course those were running 7800 for an hour at a time and were dry sumped.

380 Racer

x3

captjim

I also agree with the .001 per inch rule. Also, the high side on specs usually works OK, too.
The proper way to do it in a perfect world is to align hone to small end of spec. This increases crush, reducing the chance of the bearing spinning. It also helps transfer heat. Then, install the bearings, torque to spec using the proper lubricant and measure the bores. Then, have the crank cut/polished to get the proper tolerances. .0025-.0028 caps 1-4, .0035 +/- cap 5 (SBO) and .0030-.0032 caps 1-4 and .0040 +/- cap 5 on a BBO.

Same with the rods, recondition to low end, install bearings, cut crank to get the .0022-.0025 (SBO) or .0025-.0027 (BBO).

The above statement is just my personal opinion.

Al2011

Just got everything back from the machine shop and I think one of the ARP rod bolts is not seated properly. The head of the bolt has about a .040 gap from the rod. All other bolt heads are pressed in all the way. Should this be a quick fix meaning he can fix it while i wait? I was hoping to assemble the motor this weekend. The rotating assembly was balanced not sure if internal or external because visual alterations were made to the crank and rods but there is a weight on the flex plate and a weight in the professional products balancer so i'll ask him later. What else should I check other than bearing clearance before returning back to him. I noticed the first cam bearing front of the block the hole in the bearing is not perfectly centered. He will e-mail me a copy of all his measurments he took later. Thanks everyone!!

Rickman48

I'd be very leery of this guy!!
If he re-sized the rods, the ARP bolts should be installed prior!!
Requires torqueing the bolts to achieve size, and if the bolts not 'shouldered', how is that achieved??
Kinda sounds like he put the bolts in afterwards, which could change the sizes!
Also, lack of centering the cam bearing would show me lack of craftmanship!
Go to another shop, tell them you did the work, and you'd like it checked!
Better that, than spun bearings, or worse!

Al2011

Here's the sheet that came with the motor.

cutlassefi

Like I said before, run the other way. If his info sheet reflects the way he does machine work then all the more reason to look in another direction. Too many mistakes to mention.

Al2011

I will take it somewhere else. but I will be taking another risk since none of these local shops know Oldsmobiles. I payed $800 for nothing I don't have much left. Will I need a new block rods etc or can his mistakes be corrected? I understand about not wanting to go in detail but whats a few things that I can maybe mention to the new machinist? Or what part(s) did he screw up. Thank you , everyones been very helpfull. I won't turn my back on this project but Oldsmobiles and machine shops are a headache.