Radarman68

so first I would like to say hello to everyone. I have been lurking for quite some time and joined up a few days back. Sounds like there are a lot of resources around here.

I actually have a 1973 Century Mark II boat with a Berkeley Pack-a-Jet / 455 Oldsmobile. I purchased the boat from a person that obtained the boat in July of this year. The title had not been changed and still was in the name of the PREVIOUS owner. The PREVIOUS owner had the boat since 2005 and last ran in 2006. This previous owner is very familiar with winterizing boats and claimed it was properly put to bed for the winter and just never put it back in the water. Fast forward to October when I got it, and now the motor is seized. I am not sure if the last owner did the damage or the previous. Regardless, I have been looking for an engine to rebuild and found one locally for a steal.

Well, maybe it is not such a steal. this motor came out of a 68 and had the C heads so I took a roll of the dice hoping it was a rebuildable core. it had been stored outdoors under a tarp but it appears to have gotten water in the 1st and 8th cylinders. hmm. Not looking great, but hopefully still salvageable. I took off the intake, and much more water, and two bent pushrods. Hmm.. Now its not looking so good.

I will post my progress if y'all are interested, to see another 455 get reserected from the ashes.. so to speak.

here is the engine as I got it..

Chris

Radarman68

Here is a view after I pulled the intake.

YUK.

Oldsmaniac

Nice I see it came with a few of the rare "pretzel" pushrods! Nice. Doesnt look too bad yet. Pull the heads and look at the bores. that will tell you a lot.

RetroRanger

Welcome radar...where abouts are you located that looks like the 455 that was on Wmass CL for quite some time

Radarman68

I'm in Beaverton, OR. I found this one through a WTB add I placed. I kept striking out on the other engines I found, people would ****** up the cheap engines before I could get them. I may have been hasty on this one tho. I do know better than to purchase something without looking a bit closer than this. <sigh>

Chris

oldstata

There are a few guys in OR with 455 blocks / engines .when I was looking had at least three different people offer to sell me one just a idea if yours in not build able

Radarman68

So, pulled the pan off today, and started trying to pop the pistons out. I dont see any catistrophic damage so far.. It seems to be looking up.. I may be able to use the block after all. The rust is VERY bad in one of the bad holes, may have to sleeve that one tho.

Radarman68

cleaned out the crud in the bad holes. oo.. gunna have fun getting out the pistons. oh boy.

Radarman68

gawd. look at the timing chain. I dont know what the Detroit engineers were thinking about those stupid nylon covered timing gears. this one was still lined up, wow. I cant believe it did not skip a tooth.

are these engines interference motors? still have not found any indication on why the pushrods were bent. no blown head gasket, no bent valves, no obvious marks on the pistons..

hmm. overreving?

Radarman68

and take a look at the pan. what a mess. yuc. I found a couple globs of crud that was the consistancy of jello about the size of my thumb loose on the crank when I pulled the pan.

Radarman68

all right, Im off to the hardware store for some better flapwheels to clean out the cylinder. soaking with good ol' PB blaster right now.

Radarman68

well surprisingly enough, I was able to get the two bad pistons out pretty easily. no signs of any bearing damage, no broken bolts, all in all, looks pretty good.

I am going to clean things up and take it all down to the machine shop next week. I expect I will be sleeving at least one hole, but that should be the extent of the damage.

question for ya all. should I break down the heads or leave them assembled before I take them to the machine shop? the valves are massively rusty.. not sure if we can save any of them..

Oldsmaniac

Nice to hear, you can save a few bucks by disassembling the heads yourself. New valves would be recommended as well as new springs and the heads prob will need guides. Give them the old valves though....

442rocketdave

The old dinosaurs are tough, I could almost smell that block from Florida, hehe, It does look solid and I bet it will make a good project motor. They are getting harder and harder to find. Thanks for the good pics also.

Radarman68

Well, I took pictures of the bottom end and the bearings but the camera got bumped to manual focus so all those pics are out of focus. dang!

I will take some pics of the crank and stuff tomorrow. I am thinking that this is indeed a good rebuilder. I was worried when I saw those bent pushrods. I had visions of all kinds of carnage. lol.

Radarman68

All right folks, I have been trying to decide which machine shop to use here in the Portland area. I have had several recommendations for shops that are familiar with Oldsmobile’s.. three to be exact. I want to make sure I get a quality shop that wont rip me off. I am finding most have similar prices, so I am not looking at cost so much as specialized experience and quality workmanship.

Portland Engine Rebuilders - this is a shop that I have had come up several times in conversations with gearheads around here. They have a solid rep and when I went in to discuss, they had a 409 chev, two flat head fords, two model B fords, 351 4v Cleveland, Boss 302, 428 cobra Jet dual quad, 392 hemi, and a 426 hemi, all in view awaiting customers. When I talked with him, he has done many Olds engines and even had a fair amount of Olds parts onhand. He was familiar with many Olds idiosyncrasies and even had an Oldsmobile torque plate for his honing machine. Also has an onsite dyno. This is more of a production line shop that does some custom work.


Steve's Precision Machine in Tigard – this was recommended by Greg at SuperCars Unlimited. Smaller shop but sounded very knowledgeable. Again, much Olds experience and was familiar with many Olds idiosyncrasies.


Central Cylinder Head – Another shop recommended by several local gearheads. He is known to have experience with Olds and even had a few spare blocks/heads in the shop available in case any of my parts came up bad. I have not gone into this shop to ‘interview’ him yet, but I plan on it soon.


Anyone have any recommendations or comments either good or bad? I am pulling my original motor this week and will be taking both my spare and original motor in next week to start the rebuild. Being as it is winter time, all the shops are a bit slow right now and can get my motor done in 4 weeks or so.

Allan R

I just found this thread. Brings back some memories of 2 years ago with my 455. You aint got rust bucky! That's clean compared to what I found.

re: engine rebuilders? Maybe check with John McNeel. He's in OR (but down a ways from you in Medford). He might have some recommendations. He also has 455's for sale if this one doesn't pan out.

When I started reading this thread, I was really excited to see that set of C heads on the block. I'd be surprised if the timing chain hadn't already jumped? Maybe the cause of those 2 bent pushrods. The oil pan looks like it was from a 73 or later block though. Good luck with the sleeving and build. I'll be lurking in the background watching this one.

Radarman68

Yep, I was pretty stoked when I found this engine as well. When we tried to turn it over when I went to pick it up, it was frozen and I started thinking that I should pass. After thinking about it, I decided that I could fix most anything rust related so I offered a lower price. I think I got a decent deal.

I will be going in to talk with the folks at Central Cylinder Head today since I have more than a couple recommendations for them.

I will be pulling the boat engine Wednesday and will take both engines down next week to whoever I end up settling with.

Wish I was STILL in the bay area.. grr. I would just have Gene do my engine! I watched him rebuild a couple engines at the shop about 10 years back.

Radarman68

Well, I pulled the original '73 motor appart and found that the water in the pan had soaked into the bearings and froze the mains and rods. Rust all through the engine, top and bottom. Looking closer I see that the engine had been appart before, with two replacement rods, stock bore, stock pistons and the crank ground 20/10 under. I see a replacement timing chain, blocked off exhaust crossover, Torker manifold and a holley carb. Oh well. This makes me think someone spun a bearing and went through things as a minimal repair some time ago.

I think the block and crank out of the 68 is in better shape since it does not have as much rust and are still stock sizes. Heads off of the 73 boat motor are probably best to rebuild since there was minimal rust on those. I also found it interesting that the balancer came off almost by hand. The snout of the crank was pitted like it had rusted and been cleaned up. I am not sure what to make of this, but I am told that sometimes detonation can cause the balancer to loosen up? I figure mine is just from rust.

I will be having both blocks and the 4 heads magged once I start in on this. I have decided to hold off until the first of the year, as there are too many things going on right now with the holidays and such.

Radarman68

Bottom end view. Note the nice 'water line' on things.

chrisneu68olds

Which Bay Area? San Francisco Bay Area?

Radarman68

Now i have to decide a couple things. I know folks can/will discuss this to death, but here is my situation, and whatcha all think:

I am /currently/ running log type wet exhaust manifolds, Torker intake, 750 holley, Accel dual point, Ga heads with the 80cc chamber, 40cc dish low compression pistons, unknown camshaft and stock .025 compression height. I will probably be replacing the Torker with a dual plane crosswinds manifold..

I need to keep the static compression at or below 9 to 1, and will be running the .040 head gaskets. Doing the math, that comes out to around 7.9 to 1. yuc! To bumb up the compression to 8.5/9.0 -1, I am looking at shaving the block and heads .010 each (roughly), so with the 40cc pistons that leaves me about 8.5 to 1 or so. In order to bump that just a bit more, looks like I need to go to pistons that are around 25 - 30 cc dish? Does this all sound about right? I dont see a lot of pistons that would fall in this window. Any suggestions on pistons?

Step two is to decide if I want to rebuild the stock heads or go with some new Edelbrock heads. Looks like Summit has some for $879.50 (PN EDL-60519) EDIT - each. Rebuilding my heads would involve replacing the valves, springs, seals, retainers, new valve seats, quick pocket cleanup and milling them .010. I think that would cost me around 700 bucks or so.. Its hard to itemize this stuff since lots of the prices I am getting quoted are bundled in with parts kits and stuff. If I go with the aluminum heads, I can subtract having heads rebuilt, but I WOULD need to buy new rockers, and Summit has some generic roller tip ones for $110 (PN SUM-141708).

Seems like a no brainer here: Spend 7-800 on stock heads or for 1100 more, get a NICE set of heads that will outflow what I have with new parts. Am I forgetting anything here?
EDIT - not sure I want to spend 1800 on a set of heads. so..

My last question is to come up with a camshaft choice. My intended operational range is around 2000 to 5000. I will almost never spin past 5000 and if I do, it is only for a quick squirt down the lake. I fully expect to spend most of my time around 3000-4000 RPM. With this in mind, I have three cams I am thinking about.

CompCams 265DEH 265/273 adv, 211/223 @ 050, 472/486 lift with a 110 LSA. this cams RPM range is 1200-5500

CompCams XE268H 268/280 adv, 224/230 @ 050, 485/490 lift with a 110 LSA. this cams RPM range is 1600-5800

CompCams 275DEH 275/282 adv, 219/233 @ 050, 476/508 lift with a 110 LSA. this cams RPM range is 1500-5800

I really dont want to get too aggressive for multiple reasons. Mileage, reliability and realistic RPM range top the list. Not to mention the mildly restrictive exhaust manifolds. I am told they really dont support much more than 450hp. The machine shop is encouraging me to go with at /least/ the XE268H as he considers it a small cam. I /may/ be convinced to go with the 275DEH if I can get at least 12 -14 inches of vacuum in my setup.. any experience on vacuum for these cams in no more than a 9 to 1 compression motor?

Any suggestions?

Radarman68

Yep, Northern California. I was down there for 11 years and moved up to Portland area in 2005.

442rocketdave

Radarman, go with the edelbrocks they will allow you to run the current sh--t they call gas without detonation. They will also weight about 65 lbs less at least and they will dissipate heat and stay cooler thus keeping the engine cooler. They will flow so much better and with the roller rockers and guide plates you should run the larger of the 3 cams. This combo should be real strong especially in the torque department! probably about 540 ft lbs of torque at 4800rpm. I think you have a great combo with the 750 the intake and cam and the alunimum heads. Keep us informed!

11971four4two

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60519

The price at summit is for one edelbrock head not a pair

Radarman68

any ideas what sort of vacuum I can expect with the 275DEH? I am real tired of overly aggressive cams as of late. my last motor had 7 inches at 1000 RPM. thats just a plain /bad/ combo there as the cam was not really that big.

Radarman68

Oh dang. no WONDER those were so cheap! I feel sorta dumb now. I guess I was showing my age there as well. I bought a pair of Trick Flow heads for my 350 about 10 years ago and they WERE 900 a pair. Guess things have gone up a bit now eh.

So, looks like THAT price is out of my range, so I am going to rebuild my existing GA or C heads.

442rocketdave

The middle cam would work best with your factory heads but I would do a little clean up on the bowls and match them. That smallest cam is like a stock automatic 442 cam not much umph! I have had 4 different comp cams and I have 2 in the box now and they are ok for just a little street power but not more. Lunati and Erson have some really good cams. I think you will be fine with the Ga heads for what you wanting and save the C heads for something more potent. C heads can be made to put out some power. I am in the middle of my engine rebuild and I will post a thread next week with lots of pics. especially the heads and crank.

ah64pilot

442rocketdave

Ah64pilot is right on that one, thats why I have called Lunati over the years giving them all my info and they custom ground my cams and thats the reason they worked so well. I would go with Cutlassefi.

70Wcars

Ahww to H*** with it..I have a cam you can use. .744 lift 278 In 288 Ex @.050 Makes GREAT power!!! LOL

Seriously...what others said about Custom Grinds...YES...for the price, you will be much happier than with an off-the-shelf Cam..

I am thinking 219 In 227 Ex at .050 with lift at .490 to .520..but Cutlassefi is much better qualified to make that call for your intended use.

Good luck and Have FUN!!!

Danny