455 build, my head is spinning. HELP!
May 29th, 2019, 06:46 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 58
455 build, my head is spinning. HELP!
So my 69 convertible has been sitting for a couple years just because I knew it had a major issue and I didn't want to deal with it. Brought it to a mechanic that I somewhat trust and I have been informed I have a spun bearing. I need to rebuild the engine. I want to have an engine that will last, I want it built right, and I would love not to mortgage the house to do that. I had a quick conversation with Bill from BTR in NY and his initial ball park quote was 10K. I have ordered his book, maybe it will answer some of my questions below. The motor has always run hot and oil pressure has never been its strength. I would love to build this motor to be able to handle nitrous, but if that is going to double the cost I don't need it. Just always wanted a bottle in the car. Might be my teenage self sneaking back in. This motor came out of a 68 Delmont 88.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want?
2) Could I use a local machine shop?
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money?
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly?
5) Are Aluminum heads a must?
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)?
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself?
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build?
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want?
2) Could I use a local machine shop?
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money?
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly?
5) Are Aluminum heads a must?
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)?
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself?
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build?
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
May 29th, 2019, 08:17 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,004
So my 69 convertible has been sitting for a couple years just because I knew it had a major issue and I didn't want to deal with it. Brought it to a mechanic that I somewhat trust and I have been informed I have a spun bearing. I need to rebuild the engine. I want to have an engine that will last, I want it built right, and I would love not to mortgage the house to do that. I had a quick conversation with Bill from BTR in NY and his initial ball park quote was 10K. I have ordered his book, maybe it will answer some of my questions below. The motor has always run hot and oil pressure has never been its strength. I would love to build this motor to be able to handle nitrous, but if that is going to double the cost I don't need it. Just always wanted a bottle in the car. Might be my teenage self sneaking back in. This motor came out of a 68 Delmont 88.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want? Maybe, maybe not.
2) Could I use a local machine shop? Maybe, maybe not. I would ask someone in your area that drag races Oldsmobiles with an Olds engine.
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money? This is the most difficult part. Everyone will tell you they have built an Olds.
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly? You have to know more than they do and ask them questions.
5) Are Aluminum heads a must? No, but they do improve performance.
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do? Where did you get the used parts and what do you know about them ?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)? You need pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump and gaskets. Nitrous might require stronger connecting rods, for one thing.
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself? How confident are you that you can do precise work. Do you have tools to check the machine work that was done ?
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build? This would be a great place to start.
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want? Maybe, maybe not.
2) Could I use a local machine shop? Maybe, maybe not. I would ask someone in your area that drag races Oldsmobiles with an Olds engine.
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money? This is the most difficult part. Everyone will tell you they have built an Olds.
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly? You have to know more than they do and ask them questions.
5) Are Aluminum heads a must? No, but they do improve performance.
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do? Where did you get the used parts and what do you know about them ?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)? You need pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump and gaskets. Nitrous might require stronger connecting rods, for one thing.
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself? How confident are you that you can do precise work. Do you have tools to check the machine work that was done ?
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build? This would be a great place to start.
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
May 29th, 2019, 08:49 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 71
I am in a similar boat to you. I have a 75 455 I bought from a junkyard years ago. It needs to be completely torn down and rebuilt just for peace of mind, but as upgraded as possible.
I have found maybe 5-6 engine builders I'd trust in the country to do a roller Olds. Quotes from them go from 7500 for an iron headed engine with the only reused part being the block and heads, then 9k to 10k for the same thing with Aluminum Edelbrocks. But included are full build sheets, progress pictures, some include being dynoed. They are all carb to pan ready and just ship.
I watch too much Roadkill to think Nitrous is a good idea.
Right off the bat Aluminum heads will be a 2k-3k minimum investment, but I personally think it is worth the weight savings off the front end and if the heads are going to be redone anyway it'll be a fresh slate. That is just me, but if budget is an issue, reusing the heads will help. There is an issue regarding compression ratio and detonation, but I am not experienced enough to know the calculations.
I had considered just getting a short block and trying to rebuild the top end myself, but I am more worried about making a mistake on something harder to find. If I was learning on a SBC 350, if I mess up, I junk it and find another one. If I mess up on the 455 it is much harder to source comparatively.
I have found maybe 5-6 engine builders I'd trust in the country to do a roller Olds. Quotes from them go from 7500 for an iron headed engine with the only reused part being the block and heads, then 9k to 10k for the same thing with Aluminum Edelbrocks. But included are full build sheets, progress pictures, some include being dynoed. They are all carb to pan ready and just ship.
I watch too much Roadkill to think Nitrous is a good idea.
Right off the bat Aluminum heads will be a 2k-3k minimum investment, but I personally think it is worth the weight savings off the front end and if the heads are going to be redone anyway it'll be a fresh slate. That is just me, but if budget is an issue, reusing the heads will help. There is an issue regarding compression ratio and detonation, but I am not experienced enough to know the calculations.
I had considered just getting a short block and trying to rebuild the top end myself, but I am more worried about making a mistake on something harder to find. If I was learning on a SBC 350, if I mess up, I junk it and find another one. If I mess up on the 455 it is much harder to source comparatively.
May 29th, 2019, 09:01 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 58
Oldster Ralph, my replies to your questions
#6) The parts I am listing are in the current engine, I have done some work on it in the past.
#7) I was looking for brand names / part numbers / part materials I should be using
#8) I am sure I can do the work if it was going to save me a lot of money. I could buy the tools. If it is not a deal breaker than I would prefer to have the engine drop in ready
Is there a thread here that someone did a build step by step. If not should there be? This has to be a common thing
#6) The parts I am listing are in the current engine, I have done some work on it in the past.
#7) I was looking for brand names / part numbers / part materials I should be using
#8) I am sure I can do the work if it was going to save me a lot of money. I could buy the tools. If it is not a deal breaker than I would prefer to have the engine drop in ready
Is there a thread here that someone did a build step by step. If not should there be? This has to be a common thing
May 29th, 2019, 11:44 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,233
Do you have any Olds friends who have had engine work done, someone they are comfortable with and can recommend a shop? Are there any reputable shops near you? Oldsmobile engines are pretty picky with bearing clearances, don’t let the shop talk you into machining the parts the way chebby engines like. At the very minimum, I would run the clearances at the loose side of factory specs. If stuff is machined too tight, parts will “clearance” themselves, with the extra metal collecting in the filter.
I am starting my 18 year on the short block in my car. It’s a factor crank, factory rod, Speed-Pro pistons, high volume oil pump, with a big pan. If I had it to do over today, I would use a aftermarket rod, and some lighter aftermarket pistons. I do run a little nitrous thru it, the solenoids are good to 250hp, the most I have run thru it is 175.
Talk to to whoever your thinking of using for machine work. Tell them exactly what your wanting, how you want parts machined, make sure they know you will be checking their work. If they argue, look elsewhere. Do you have any friends with precision measuring tools? If not, Plastiguage is better than nothing, and a cheap set of snap gauges and calipers could be used to check piston to wall clearance.
As as far as heads go, unless your heads are in excellent condition, it’s hard to properly rebuild iron heads, and port them to perform at least as well, and cheaper, than just buying aftermarket aluminum. The Edelbrock beards are a 50 hp bolt on, and when you consider the cost of valves, guides, springs, retainers, machine work, magnaflux, etc, the costs add up fast.
I am starting my 18 year on the short block in my car. It’s a factor crank, factory rod, Speed-Pro pistons, high volume oil pump, with a big pan. If I had it to do over today, I would use a aftermarket rod, and some lighter aftermarket pistons. I do run a little nitrous thru it, the solenoids are good to 250hp, the most I have run thru it is 175.
Talk to to whoever your thinking of using for machine work. Tell them exactly what your wanting, how you want parts machined, make sure they know you will be checking their work. If they argue, look elsewhere. Do you have any friends with precision measuring tools? If not, Plastiguage is better than nothing, and a cheap set of snap gauges and calipers could be used to check piston to wall clearance.
As as far as heads go, unless your heads are in excellent condition, it’s hard to properly rebuild iron heads, and port them to perform at least as well, and cheaper, than just buying aftermarket aluminum. The Edelbrock beards are a 50 hp bolt on, and when you consider the cost of valves, guides, springs, retainers, machine work, magnaflux, etc, the costs add up fast.
May 29th, 2019, 12:14 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braceville, Ohio
Posts: 1,972
I guess I should have explain my answer better. If you want to put nitrous on your car, you have to upgrade your complete drivetrain. I think you should think out your plans for your car then stick to it. If it's nitrous, you'll have to spend money in other places than just your engine.
May 29th, 2019, 01:43 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,824
So my 69 convertible has been sitting for a couple years just because I knew it had a major issue and I didn't want to deal with it. Brought it to a mechanic that I somewhat trust and I have been informed I have a spun bearing. I need to rebuild the engine. I want to have an engine that will last, I want it built right, and I would love not to mortgage the house to do that. I had a quick conversation with Bill from BTR in NY and his initial ball park quote was 10K. I have ordered his book, maybe it will answer some of my questions below. The motor has always run hot and oil pressure has never been its strength. I would love to build this motor to be able to handle nitrous, but if that is going to double the cost I don't need it. Just always wanted a bottle in the car. Might be my teenage self sneaking back in. This motor came out of a 68 Delmont 88.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want? What do you want?
2) Could I use a local machine shop? Sure if they're capable
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money? Ask questions, lots of them
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly? See above
5) Are Aluminum heads a must? How much power do you want? What octane fuel will you be using?
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do? Not necessarily, what exactly do you have?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)? Again what power and budget are you going for?
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself? Don't know your level of competency
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build?
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
I have so many questions that I am just going to list them.
1) Do I have to spend that kind of money to get what I want? What do you want?
2) Could I use a local machine shop? Sure if they're capable
3) How do I know they know what they are doing and I am not just wasting money? Ask questions, lots of them
4) How do I really know they know the issues these engines have and will address them properly? See above
5) Are Aluminum heads a must? How much power do you want? What octane fuel will you be using?
6) Should I reuse any of the existing parts (I have a carb that is new, roller cam fairly new, roller rockers fairly new, timing chain set, etc)? Am I asking for trouble if I do? Not necessarily, what exactly do you have?
7) Is there a parts list of must haves for a rebuild that everyone would agree on (I know that is saying a lot)? Again what power and budget are you going for?
8) Could I buy all the parts, have the machine shop take care of the block and heads and assemble myself? Don't know your level of competency
9) Anyone live in western MA and used a good machine shop for their build?
Looking for any help, sorry for the brain dump here.
Thanks.
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