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the only thing i know about fishing is that i like to drink beer, and what i know about heads is that i wouldn't pay 2 grand for edelbrock just to tear them apart, id port irons and put new hardware in them or buy procomps bare and put better hardware in them, i think the price would be about the same, what does a set of heads cost from rocket racing ? what is their quality like ? i plan on porting irons for my project but ill eventually upgrade to aluminum and it wont be edelbrock.
I think there are very few problems with complete out of box Edelbrock heads. Plus they flow better and arguably have a better chamber. I think buying Edelbrock's bare is a waste of time compared to Procomp's. Bare Edelbrock heads need a valve job and guide work. Procomps sound closer to ready to run bare and have more material where it counts if you want max effort head finished as you want.
I think there are very few problems with complete out of box Edelbrock heads. Plus they flow better and arguably have a better chamber. I think buying Edelbrock's bare is a waste of time compared to Procomp's. Bare Edelbrock heads need a valve job and guide work. Procomps sound closer to ready to run bare and have more material where it counts if you want max effort head finished as you want.
Based on what? What max effort pro comp headed Oldsmobile engine? I agree with you Edelbrocks complete out of the box work fine. Maybe you should talk to Andy Miller and Bill At BTR.
Mark on here and Smitty both have mentioned the material in the right places. Yes, I know all the drama around Smitty lately, doesn't mean he is clueless.
Based on what? What max effort pro comp headed Oldsmobile engine? I agree with you Edelbrocks complete out of the box work fine. Maybe you should talk to Andy Miller and Bill At BTR.
BTR and Andy Miller never had a set of procomps in their hands and neither have you. People like Mark, Bernard, Smitty, Hunts have worked on them and they all say they are good alternative and a viable option.
Mark on here and Smitty both have mentioned the material in the right places. Yes, I know all the drama around Smitty lately, doesn't mean he is clueless.
Oh okay i thought you might have personal info on these pro comps. I think you should really understand BTR has built some good engines using ebrocks. Even Russel H think Ebrocks are better. I am talking max effort. I agree that comps are cheaper but no one yet has any evidence of a pro comp olds motor going as fast as Rocket Racing, Mondello Knolton thunder head or a Edelbrock this is fact.Till someone builds a pro comp headed Oldsmotor. Now i am taking in to consideration that ROP,classic old is not the total known. It is what it is for now. To suggest without proof to me seems like a story. Have you checked out what iron heads have run? Food for thought.
BTR and Andy Miller never had a set of procomps in their hands and neither have you. People like Mark, Bernard, Smitty, Hunts have worked on them and they all say they are good alternative and a viable option.
There is only one guy with agenda. Everyone else isn't dissing a brand. Just saying Procomps easily compare to edels period
I am no dissing anything and you can't read .I agree these heads are cheep.Russel said they are a viable head just not better his words.Do you even know who Russel Hunt is? Do you know who Bill Travato is? Have you ever raced with a set of Edelbrock heads? This is info from respected Racers.
I am no dissing anything and you can't read .I agree these heads are cheep.Russel said they are a viable head just not better his words.Do you even know who Russel Hunt is? Do you know who Bill Travato is? Have you ever raced with a set of Edelbrock heads? This is info from respected Racers.
Hey, I haven't had one drink tonight haha. When you say " This is info from respected racers" who really cares ? Some builders are making them work great for the guys that just want a decent street rod without the higher costs.
Why does everything have to come down to being proved out by racers here to with you guys?
I'm going to get my buddy Jack out and trip on over to see how the Torque vs HP thread is going meet you over ther WR1970 haha.
Hey, I haven't had one drink tonight haha. When you say " This is info from respected racers" who really cares ? Some builders are making them work great for the guys that just want a decent street rod without the higher costs.
Why does everything have to come down to being proved out by racers here to with you guys?
I'm going to get my buddy Jack out and trip on over to see how the Torque vs HP thread is going meet you over ther WR1970 haha.
It is clear some don't even understand that a iron heads can provide more than enough for the street. You are one of them!It is called being informed.You are not one who is.You showed up to stir the pot.
It is clear some don't even understand that a iron heads can provide more than enough for the street. You are one of them!It is called being informed.You are not one who is.You showed up to stir the pot.
Hey I need some ice , have you any? Jack is a little potent without it. We will continue to talk after.
Hey I need some ice , have you any? Jack is a little potent without it. We will continue to talk after.
What you have nothing in the way of working on a engine yet you think you feel the need to spew! I thought copper made it clear what you know!I need a rib belt from watching you try to get the better of copper last night.
What you have nothing in the way of working on a engine yet you think you feel the need to spew! I thought copper made it clear what you know!I need a rib belt from watching you try to get the better of copper last night.
You can try orielly's the may carry what your looking for, something like a gaterback rib belt perhaps? I'm not sure what the racers are running but The continental line may work for ya as well.
Ah man if your were watching copper prices are way down, You should really watch the iron prices. Although this whole market thing is a little crazy wouldn't you say .
You can try orielly's the may carry what your looking for, something like a gaterback rib belt perhaps? I'm not sure what the racers are running but The continental line may work for ya as well.
Ah man if your were watching copper prices are way down, You should really watch the iron prices. Although this whole market thing is a little crazy wouldn't you say .
I think the no clue was what was said .I see you still have none. Drinking jack might give you one after you pass out!
Oh okay i thought you might have personal info on these pro comps. I think you should really understand BTR has built some good engines using ebrocks. Even Russel H think Ebrocks are better. I am talking max effort. I agree that comps are cheaper but no one yet has any evidence of a pro comp olds motor going as fast as Rocket Racing, Mondello Knolton thunder head or a Edelbrock this is fact.Till someone builds a pro comp headed Oldsmotor. Now i am taking in to consideration that ROP,classic old is not the total known. It is what it is for now. To suggest without proof to me seems like a story. Have you checked out what iron heads have run? Food for thought.
Why does everything need to be max effort? How many times we need to tell you that majority of us here don't race. now I know this comes as a total surprise to you I get it, but really.......most of us don't race. Maybe once in awhile.
Like many guys here, I built my engine for street, I didn't have no heads to begin with so Procomps made a damn good choice and a great alternative to me spending a whole lot of money on heads.
All we are trying to say that it's a good option for a healthy street engine. And that's a good thing, it's a cheaper option, and it works good.
Why is it that you can't accept that?? They can be ported much easier than iron, you can run higher compression than iron and they are lighter than iron.
You have to admit for a $360 a piece (bare) you get a solid start with a decent aluminum head. especially if like me, you had no heads to start with.
Why does everything need to be max effort? How many times we need to tell you that majority of us here don't race. now I know this comes as a total surprise to you I get it, but really.......most of us don't race. Maybe once in awhile.
Like many guys here, I built my engine for street, I didn't have no heads to begin with so Procomps made a damn good choice and a great alternative to me spending a whole lot of money on heads.
All we are trying to say that it's a good option for a healthy street engine. And that's a good thing, it's a cheper option, and it works good.
Why is it that you can't accept that?? They can be ported much easier than iron, you can run higher compression than iron and they are lighter than iron.
You have to admit for a $360 a piece (bare) you get a solid start with a decent aluminum head. especially if like me, you had no heads to start with.
Agree. Why does it need to be about racing. Guy must watch re runs of street outlaws all day and dream that was him. HA
I went back and forth between rebuilding factory irons before ordering a set of Procomps. There are quite a few negatives to factory irons that made me go with a new casting.
Stock iron heads:
Heavier;
Harder to port;
Usually need valve guides repaired;
Do not have hardened valve seat inserts for the exhaust side;
Are decades old;
Do not have as many options for adjustable valvetrain in stock form without modification;
Have bigger, less efficient combustion chambers;
Have heat risers;
Exhaust divider needs to be modified to separate exhaust ports for headers;
Are more prone to detonation;
Typically aren't worth much for resale.
I think there are very few problems with complete out of box Edelbrock heads. Plus they flow better and arguably have a better chamber. I think buying Edelbrock's bare is a waste of time compared to Procomp's. Bare Edelbrock heads need a valve job and guide work. Procomps sound closer to ready to run bare and have more material where it counts if you want max effort head finished as you want.
70 go reread you can't comprehend what i posted. I agree that pro comps are a choice for a mild engine. Mark cutlessefi said this Quote{ good for mild engines}.This guy brought up max effort pro comps 307 and 403! 70 cutty what do you know about street heads? I know your motor has pro comps. You built what? Do tell please. Just what are you doing with the street engine that is so impressive? Me i drove my70 442 street engine iron headed car to work.I drove my car to the race track and raced it then drove it home. I took my street car to two et finals. I raced and have been driving this street car iron headed engine since 2001 till 2013. I have several cars several engines all my engines can be used on the street.I have not built my max engine yet.My fastest motor resides in my 70 442 street car right now.
70 go reread you can't comprehend what i posted. I agree that pro comps are a choice for a mild engine. Mark cutlessefi said this Quote{ good for mild engines}.This guy brought up max effort pro comps 307 and 403! 70 cutty what do you know about street heads? I know your motor has pro comps. You built what? Do tell please. Just what are you doing with the street engine that is so impressive? Me i drove my70 442 street engine iron headed car to work.I drove my car to the race track and raced it then drove it home. I took my street car to two et finals. I raced and have been driving this street car iron headed engine since 2001 till 2013. I have several cars several engines all my engines can be used on the street.I have not built my max engine yet.My fastest motor resides in my 70 442 street car right now.
I know about heads and engines a lot more than you do I've built my 355 and my 383 and couple of more. I've built my whole car, it's not the first one. I have read your threads both here and on ROP, you have no clue about engines or heads, much less about everything else.
Don't play stupid, you and everybody else know damn well who built my engine. I knew what I wanted and what parts I wanted and I paid one of the best to do it.
What am I doing with my engine?? I am having fun, hell I am having more fun with my cutlass than my chevelle with a very healthy 383. This thing is a beast, it will roast tires at 35 in 2nd gear with little effort. I am having fun, isn't that what it's all about???? I didn't build my car to impress anybody, I built it to have fun. The engine is perfect, I drive it to work to local cruises, been to several midnight meets, smoked few mustangs, few imports, got my *** kicked by a C6.
But it was fun, so yeah that's what I'm doing, having fun. And my procomps look and run great while I'm doing it.
Has anyone here built their OWN engine? It seems everone is arguing over a subject ( procomp heads) that only a few people have actually built or even put thier hands on
Has anyone here built their OWN engine? It seems everone is arguing over a subject ( procomp heads) that only a few people have actually built or even put thier hands on
Building mine now with the advice and guidance from CutlassEFI. ProComps in hand. They look great. waiting for the other parts from Mark.
Building mine now with the advice and guidance from CutlassEFI. ProComps in hand. They look great. waiting for the other parts from Mark.
Im just getting started on mine also, ill port a set of irons for now but ill probably upgrade to procomps in the future, I had a 455 olds in the 90s in a 4 door nova (sleeper car) and i loved it so I thought id build another olds 455, i usually build big block Chevy or Pontiacs good luck with your build, its always better to build your own I think, at least you know what you have
I know about heads and engines a lot more than you do I've built my 355 and my 383 and couple of more. I've built my whole car, it's not the first one. I have read your threads both here and on ROP, you have no clue about engines or heads, much less about everything else.
Don't play stupid, you and everybody else know damn well who built my engine. I knew what I wanted and what parts I wanted and I paid one of the best to do it.
What am I doing with my engine?? I am having fun, hell I am having more fun with my cutlass than my chevelle with a very healthy 383. This thing is a beast, it will roast tires at 35 in 2nd gear with little effort. I am having fun, isn't that what it's all about???? I didn't build my car to impress anybody, I built it to have fun. The engine is perfect, I drive it to work to local cruises, been to several midnight meets, smoked few mustangs, few imports, got my *** kicked by a C6.
But it was fun, so yeah that's what I'm doing, having fun. And my procomps look and run great while I'm doing it.
I like how you claim you built it then switch to Mark built it. LOL I have four working engines i built. Let you fingers tell how much 11.20 at 120 equates to. Oh try a frame off in 7 months then race it and win$$ at a race track first time racing at a race track 2001. Show and shine. LOL Roasting tires dude that is why your don't know how to make your car hook. Sad that you think that is power.Simply you really don't know squat.I have heard enough from a car polisher that thinks he knows how to make power on the street.What a joke. I doubt you can get a 11 second pass out of your sonic chaser.
Only stupid people street race. Which really isn't racing. If the shoe fits wear it. I do my racing at the race track.This is where you can see if you built you engine and car to perform be it a meek,mild,wild!
you live for this drama, it shows in every one of your threads.
Honestly, I fee sorry for you. You must be one very lonely person. Go hug your race car or something.
you live for this drama, it shows in every one of your threads.
Honestly, I fee sorry for you. You must be one very lonely person. Go hug your race car or something.
You have a sad out look on what you think makes a car run. As for your pro comp heads and Mark to build your engine good plan. The rest you are clueless you prove it in your post. I am done bantering with you on this thread. You are the drama queen with nothing but senseless spewing of what you think makes street power. If you were closer i would show you how much power your car really has.Go ahead think what you want. Racers know how to make power. Don't kill anyone with your street racing trying to prove how fast your car is. Good day.
You guys have done a good job at slinging mud at each other for nothing more than everyone's own opinions and desires.
Neeley, so what if 70cutty doesn't have fun the same way as you. As long as he's not hurting anyone what's the difference? You take everything very personally. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you need to take a chill pill every once in a awhile, please.
The reason for this post was to point out, if any, the differences in available aluminum heads. I think that's been beat to death. The only thing that matters imo is that we do have choices, and that's a good thing.
The only other thing I would say is if you've never seen any given head first hand that you don't post, PLEASE. Have you ever see me say ANYTHING about RR heads? Ever? No, because I've never seen a set first hand.
Any of you that haven't worked with the Procomps need to just keep your mouth shut. The same goes true for any other head that you've never seen.
And both BTR and Andy Miller have clear agendas, they sell their own stuff. Do yourself a favor and keep that in mind when reading their opinions. I'm not a dealer for any head manufacturer. I simply do what I think is best for the build at hand, plain and simple.
I hope I've been clear on my opinion.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Jan 26, 2016 at 06:28 AM.
Pross4- you made some good points but left out a couple of things.
Joe Mondello did most of the R&D on the original heads, not Edelbrock. And Dick Miller was responsible for the combustion chamber change, again not Edelbrock.
I know this because of a few extremely reliable sources, those being Joe, Bernard, and a couple of people inside Edelbrock.
I've petitioned Edelbrock for a few more changes, some that I believe will potentially increase their sales. We'll see what happens there.
But take note of one thing, when the Chevy/Patriot head came out years ago it hurt Edelbrock bigtime. Then not long after that all of a sudden Edelbrock came out with a more "economical" cyl head for a fair amount less. Hmmmmm by only leaving out a couple of features they were able to reduce the price almost 20%? Really? Sounds a little suspect to me.
Mark,
I did not know that Joe did the R&D or that Dick Miller was responsible for the new combustion chamber design. I hope they listen to you and improve the product even more. Thanks for the insight. Quick question, did they do all the R&D and then give it to Edelbrock for free? If so, that is quite generous on their part and also makes Ebrock look like a bunch of cheap bastards!
Regarding the Chevy/Patriot head, looks like capitalism at its best. That is the way free markets should work. If you are the only one providing a product or service then you can usually get away with higher prices until you start getting competition for that product or service. When that occurs you will have to compete on price and quality. If you fail at either you will lose business and be forced to adapt or get out of the business. It looks like Ebrock adapted. Maybe the same will happen with the Procomp head. Only time will tell. Having more players in the game, we as consumers benefit!
Thanks for all your info! I appreciate what you do for our hobby.
Jeff
Only stupid people street race. Which really isn't racing. If the shoe fits wear it. I do my racing at the race track.This is where you can see if you built you engine and car to perform be it a meek,mild,wild!
Racing at the track came from racing on the street! Racing on the street can be stupid if both the participants are reckless and stupid but it can also be fun! Nothing wrong with having fun!
I have not built many engines...... In fact ive only built one measly little 305 tpi beast lol! I understand the basics and things beyond that but when you don't do it a lot then you lose a bit of knowledge and little tips and tricks but that doesn't mean you don't know anything! I'm having mine built by Mark because I want to! I'll also most likely have him build by NASCAR build when it's time as well because he knows those little tips and tricks and has the resources and network to support him. I will build one of my 455s on my own in the future but not for awhile. This argument about who knows what and who doesn't is a pissing match that nobody cares about! Having fun as 70Cutty talks about is what the hobby is about!
Pross4- most companies will give special deals to the guys who help design the product. And the guys who help design it get it done without having the CAD or start up costs, the manufacturers take care of that. If both see it as a viable project then it's a win-win.
My conversation with Edelbrock was in fact to do a few things to potentially increase their sales, not necessarily lower their costs. It just so happens my best connection there is in the process of building a stroker 455 so I hit them at a good time, I hope.
Thanks.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Jan 26, 2016 at 01:37 PM.
