Looking to get Aluminum Heads for my 455 Build. I'm sure this thread is Already started. Sorry in advance. What's your guys opinions on Pro comp Vs Edelbrock VS iron

 

Wow you lit the fuse on this one. LOL I am going to watch this thread.

 

I went back and forth and decided to go with the Procomps. I bought them bare and haven't had em checked out yet by a machinist.

 

This was posted by the Hunt brothers, I believe they know a thing or two about olds engines and heads.

 

How much do you want to spend? I run the Ebrocks and they perform admirably. Very happy with the product. Could they be inferior to the Procomps? Sure! But they work well out of the box. I mean how much power can you get out of these old Olds engines anyway. 500 hp and 580 torque? That's pretty good. What's in your wallet?

 

Either get them bare and have them set up or get them from Bernard Mondello. He can set them up any way you like.

 

I'm gunna have CutlassEFI get my heads built up. He definatley knows what he's doing. Going the same route as you 70CUTTY on the build. Procomps are what mark Recommends

 

I am glad you think the Hunts know something! Now for the real story i asked Russel if these pro comps are better than Ebrocks his answer in his opinion was NO. Also a viable option. He son is doing a very good job of porting on those Pro comp heads. They were bare castings. Pro Comp are cheaper.

 

Yes I read the comment. He also never said that are Ebrocks are better. The fact that people like Hunts, Bernard and Mark are using these heads tells us something.

 

Here's a quote from ROP:

Russell Hunt said:
The quality of the heads is good, nothing that stands out either way. Are they better than EBrocks ? Id say no. Are they viable options ? Sure they are. I cant speak for the quality of the valves or springs as these are bare.

 

Hi Don. I guess no doesn't mean NO.

 

He might have been referring to the FB post where Russ made no mention. Russell just mentioned today on ROP his thoughts between the two.

 

I know that is why i made that thread.To find out what he really thought. I have asked several times for racers to give a opinion.Not very many have responded. These are viable street heads for some extra cash added for porting and buying better parts to add to the bare casting. Total cost ?

 

Bare edelbrocks cheapest I found is around $1650 for a pair, pair of procomps bare $720. Almost $1000. And if you buy them from Bernard you are supporting small business and not a big corporation. Lol.

 

I know they are cheaper! I am asking at what does it cost to up grade the pro comps with a port job and better valves, springs. Total cost involved plus heads. Not everyone can do this. Mark and Bernard fill the niche so to speak for those who go this route. Others just by Rocket racing and Ebrocks. The latter have more than proved what kind of results they produce. I am sure there are some very good Iron heads that can be made to produce very good results. This would be a cheaper way to go.

 

Well I think it would cost the same to upgrade both. The cost I posted is for bare castings. I mean springs, valves and hardware cost the same for both heads, unless you know something I don't.

 

I also think Iron heads at a lower cost can be made to work as good as pro comps and i think someone is out to prove it. In a race app Irons have been faster to date than pro comps.

 

I think this has been a great discussion. My .02 this is performance discussion. This forum by the admittance of one mod is basic build forum. The powers that are in charge just will not support the race and performance forum the way it should be.

 

I think people are full of hate. Is there anything bad about any of the options when done right. Iron, Edelbrock, or pro comps. If it's just a money thing I think this subject needs to get erased. I've heard good about all options but no bad. Thanks everyone for their opinions

 

I think there is still something to be said about an American company innovating a product as opposed to an American company reverse engineering a product and giving it to China. I guess thats where ethics come into play.

However, if said innovator is way out of line on price, it stands to reason that American consumer flocks to Chinese product.

I am now convinced the Pro Comp head is a viable casting. However, it took cutlassefi everything it took to make an honest 500hp on the dot with a Pro Comp. We did irons that made 527 with some porting, and 482 with no porting. Edelbrocks with the supplied hardware made 525......and other builders made more HP with assembled Ebrocks.

Also, another thing to consider is that Bernard Mondello happens to be right next to the US port where castings come in. So, he can pick and choose his castings and it is a matter of getting in a vehicle and driving down the road with the rejected castings he has. Makes you wonder what happens with the castings he rejects.......

 

Is there anything to be said about any of these heads when done right? Hell no. All are viable.

I guess it comes down to your intended application. My bias for a street/strip car is irons. How cool is it to whoop up on some Chevy punk when you have a set of properly prepped irons? Irons can get very expensive if you try to make too much HP with them......it can be done, but at a price.

Aluminums are much easier to make HP because they are easier to work on, and have a much better shape to start with. If you asked my opinion a year ago I'd tell you the chinese stuff is junk, but I am older and wiser now. Pro Comps still need porting to match an out of the box Edelbrock.

At the end of the day I would look at what the HP potential is per dollar spent. It sounds easy, but you have to consider a bunch of factors. Usually saving a few bucks here and there leads to failure.

 

CutlassEFI has been talking to me about proComps. I'd rather go American. But he swears by these?? I'd like to hear some more from him on getting irons flowing tip top

 

Why would you want to erase the subject? This is where others can be more informed when choosing a path to follow. This usually happens because of dollars. The ones who have cash to spare buy the higher priced proven head products. These pro comps have a place in the hobby and i am glad that two guys have made great strides to provide a use able product to the hobby after they rework them. If a guy was to buy pro comps he would be wise to get them from Markefi or Bernard. More choice is good. Info on those choices is good. It isn't just a money thing it's about application and how much performance you want.

 

I believe edelbrock is way out of line with the price for their heads. The only reason they can charge what they want, is because there were no other options and they knew that. Typical big Corp crap. I wouldn't buy them just because of that.

I am glad that somebody was willing to provide another option for our dying brand. they are proven to be good and they are affordable. $1k difference in cost, that is quite a bit of money for me, I can think of a lot of parts I could buy with that money.

My procomps have 0 porting and my cam is fairly mild, but they exceeded my goal. The car runs great and I have no complains. It has more power than I need. If I was to do it all over I would exactly the same thing.

 

I have also talked to cutlassefi and a lot of other engine builders, they all said it doesn't matter which head you get they both need work out of the box. I've had a couple that told me to get the edelbrocks and I have had a couple tell me not to waste my time and money on the edelbrocks. I also went back and forth on them for about 4 months. When I was finally ready to order no one had any of either, edelbrock was 6 months out from producing them and I have no idea why no one had any procomps. Finally I gave Bernard a call and luckly he had a set. so I ordered the procomp with updated edelbrock springs (for roller) SS edelbrock valves, ported, polished and blended. Even after all the upgrades I'm still in them less then I would have been in the out of the box edelbrocks. Plus he warranties them.
He does both edelbrock and procomps and has nothing bad to say about either. If you want give him a call.

 

I don't know who told you Ebrocks need work right out of the box! I know for a fact i have a set nothing was done to them except putting them on my engine! Car and engine 3440 me in it has run low11's Is there a ten in it i think so. Like i said depends on your application what any head needs.

 

I'm glad you got a good set right out of the box everyone tells me that none are a true 77cc they all need to be resurfaced. I had a set compression in mind and it was easier and cheaper for me to buy them already done.

 

I guess i will ask who is everyone? I never said anything about being 77cc. I said bolt on and go. What is your set compression you are referring to. I am using more than one set. In my album is the engines.One set is gasket matched that is it.The other nothing!

 

I wouldn't install either without inspecting them or having a machine shop inspect them. Edelbrock is not exactly famous for perfect machining.

 

Besides a couple people local of me (in the middle of Utah) there are a couple of them on this site. if they want to speak up they can that's up to them. The set compression is what I wanted my engine's compression to be. you're right you didn't say anything about 77cc, but either head you can just bolt on and go. But I'd much rather buy a pair of reworked procomps for 1299$ from Bernard then pay 1898$ for a pair of edels that will still need to me inspected.
Does the edles need to be reworked? probably not. resurfaced? maybe.
Do the procomps need to be reworked? depends on who you buy them from. but for less that 400$ for a bare head by the time they are finished its still under what you can buy a untouched pair of edels for.
Do I hate edels? of course not, I just don't think I made a bad decision with my procomps.

 

I am not saying pro comps are a bad choice! But out of the box usable pro comps i disagree! After reworked by bernard or Markefi usable out of the box i agree! Price cheaper you bet pro comps are. Good work done by both guys yes. The fact remains several choices. But there is proof the Ebocks and iron heads Rocket racing heads are good heads. To each his own on what he wants to use. Would i use a Pro comp heads ? Why not for a street engine much cheaper. These Pro comp heads haven't been around that long. Will more guys use them in a race application maybe. Time will tell.

 

^^^^^^This is the most important thing, having a choice, affordable choice at that. Not being stuck with one manufacturer who charges whatever they want because they know there is no other option.

Well I think we can all agree that officially Procomps are viable option.

BTW couple of guys on FB are running Procomps headed engines, one is in low 11's (out of the box, bare, setup with better hardware) the other guy runs 10.67 with a mild port job. Can't wait to see what Hunts will run with them, I know they are hoping for low 7's.

 

Now are you saying a seven second 1/4 mi run!!I would highly doubt that! Then again if it goes into Russel's twin turbo dragster maybe. Door car NO.

 

I'm not sure, just reading what they have been posting.

 

[QUOTE=70cutty;888156]I'm not sure, just reading what they have been posting.[/QUOTE} It is a g body 455 that these heads are going on. 7's in the 1/8 mi is very do able. With Russel's help this could be a 10 second 1/4 mi car.

 

To be honest with you, it seems nobody is famous for machining anymore. You wouldn't believe the crap I see at the machine shop of stuff that is "ready to install".......don't get me started on all the **** poor machine shops there are around now.

 

This is what Russel Hunt had to say about the Procomps. This is copied from ROP.

This is what we have thus far. The heads are a fairly nice casting, cant speak for the first production run of these heads. Edelbrock casting are nicer and more refined. Guides and seats are of good quality and very consistent no issues there. The valve job on the seats I dont care for, that will be changed. With that being said the valve job on Ebrocks is not that great either. With all the Ebrock heads that we have had all of them have the valve to guide clearance on the tight side, these are not ( will know the exact number once we put valves in them ) The CNC gasket match is dead on, but leaves a very harsh area at the pushrod pinch as that area has extra material in the casting. Castings are not porous and are very clean. Like I said we bought these bare, as we do all heads ( including Edelbrock ) and outfit them to each application.

 

I believe edelbrock is way out of line with the price for their heads. The only reason they can charge what they want, is because there were no other options and they knew that. Typical big Corp crap. I wouldn't buy them just because of that. - 70Cutty


I think you are making a BIG assumption about what they charge. Unless you know someone at Ebrock who makes these decisions. Ebrock needs to recoup what they have invested in the heads in terms of engineering, design, manufacturing and marketing of these heads. It seems to me that Procomp has very little invested in the engineering, design and marketing of there heads. As a domestic U.S. manufacturer, Ebrock's cost is significantly higher than offshore or Chinese manufacturers. I doubt most Chinese worker's have good health, dental or pension plans in place. I also doubt OSHA is running around making sure they work in a safe and healthy environment.


And if you buy them from Bernard you are supporting small business and not a big corporation. - 70Cutty

I believe in supporting small businesses also. I think most people do. I also believe in supporting the guy or gal who works at a domestic manufacturing facility that is trying to support their family with a weekly paycheck. I am not concerned about supporting a Chinese family or big Chinese business/manufacturing plant owner. Either product you buy, you are supporting a big business.




Having said all that, I do believe you should be able to decide how you want to spend your hard earned dollars. I believe either route a person chooses will work out just fine. Saving a $1,000 is a big deal to most people and I respect their choice of choosing Procomp over Ebrock. Your build has been very successful and I have enjoyed watching it over the years. Mark Remmell is a talented and knowledgeable engine builder and did an excellent job on your build. He has given me advice on my current build. If Mark says they will work well then I completely agree. I have never heard him say one manufacturer's will NOT work. It seems to come down to how much you are willing to spend.


No one on here should get too defensive on either route a person chooses. BOTH WILL WORK!! It really comes down to finances, engine builder and personal choice. Lets all be glad we get a choice.




I have posted some pictures of the Procomp head and another picture of the Ebrock head with the new combustion chamber and the old combustion chamber. It looks like the Procomp is the older style but I don't know if they have recently changed it. Seems like their is more engineering and development cost expended by Ebrock and may end up being copied by Procomp somewhere in the future.

 

I think there is a assumption that cost for the new E brock head should be the same or lower than the old design. Not going to happen. It is up to each person on what they want to spend there $$$$ on.

 

Pross4- you made some good points but left out a couple of things.
Joe Mondello did most of the R&D on the original heads, not Edelbrock. And Dick Miller was responsible for the combustion chamber change, again not Edelbrock.
I know this because of a few extremely reliable sources, those being Joe, Bernard, and a couple of people inside Edelbrock.
I've petitioned Edelbrock for a few more changes, some that I believe will potentially increase their sales. We'll see what happens there.
But take note of one thing, when the Chevy/Patriot head came out years ago it hurt Edelbrock bigtime. Then not long after that all of a sudden Edelbrock came out with a more "economical" cyl head for a fair amount less. Hmmmmm by only leaving out a couple of features they were able to reduce the price almost 20%? Really? Sounds a little suspect to me.