MDchanic

Jonathan, you've got to read up on some basic information on how engines work. Your Chassis Service Manual would actually serve the purpose well, as there is a bit of explanation at the beginning of each chapter of how those parts work, but you may prefer an auto mechanics textbook or some online information.

We can only take you so far here, and very few of us is going to start with the most basic building blocks, like Allan is trying to do, and educate you from scratch.

At this point, I'm nervous about giving you any advice at all, because I have no idea how much or how little you know about any given aspect of auto repair and maintenance, and I can't tell how something that seems clear to me might be misinterpreted by someone who is still missing the basics.

I don't wish to sound mean or disrespectful, and hope I'm not coming across that way, but I don't actually think we're helping you here at this point.
If you help yourself a little, we'll all be able to help you better.

- Eric

Allan R

Eric,
That is why I'm trying hard to keep it really simple. I also feel the same way that if something gets misinterpreted or done wrong Jonathan could hurt himself. Like you I know that the advice we're dispensing might be taken out of context with disasterous results. You and I have worked on these engines, you way more than I. That's why I'm trying to put things in terms he can understand fairly easily. Still, I'm hoping that the first baby steps will be to see if the car will actually run using some of the suggestions I unloaded on him.

Jonathan, I have to say this now. If for any reason you feel that you're in over your head, you should get someone with engine knowledge (like your grampa) to help out on this. It's really important that you know what you're doing or at least have a working knowledge and vocabulary to assist you when you're attempting to do mechancal work. It's not for everyone. Don't let pride stand in your way. I understand the desire to show results of something done with your own hands. Just know what your limitations are.

I'm not a mechanic but I have mechanical abilities and a strong desire to be functionally correct when I work on my cars. In many cases though I can look at something and basically figure it out. I also like to go to the boneyards and take stuff apart to learn why it works or how to take it apart and rebuild it. That's something that many of us here will simply nod and say nothing more. I can't begin to imagine how frustrated you must get with some of our replies, but that's a frustration that's more on your end. Most of the stuff we've posted would be considered 'gimmee' if you were playing golf.

Like you I ask questions when I'm not sure. But I also have many years of practice and experience with cars doing everything from basic tuneups, tranny and coolant flushes, oil changes, suspension, brakes, cooling system and basic electrical. I also have or have access to manuals that I read and learn from. Eric is 100% right about the accountability to learn. It's gotta come from you first. We're the followup.

While this may sound discouraging, it's not. You are like a computer to us. We're just re-booting you to help direct your learning.

Allan R

Why did you delete your post? It gives us something more to work with
edited personal stuff out
If you absolutely can't start it or feel that it's going to be too much money and frustration? Just sell it as is and let the buyer know it advance it's not a runner. You will not get much for it as it is and there's not much of a market for 4 door cars like this - unfortunately. But then if you really wanted another one, you could spend a little more and get one that's running and/or requires very little work. Just some suggestions ......

BTW the $$$ spent on old cars is something that you should have anticipated from the beginning. Not sure how it's chomping up money when you aren't really spending anything on it at this time. Fuel pump, wires, plugs? that's not a lot of money to condemn a car for especially since you got it for free....What else have you done to it?

If your specialty is detailing work? There's GOTTA be someone around your shop or a client with mechanical skills you could 'trade favors' that could help you get this car running.

MDchanic

Yeah, I've got to agree with Allan: if you can't fix it, you can't fix it, but I wouldn't throw the good out with the bad.
I also am not sure where you've spent money on this free car - I always figure about $200-300 in initial expenses when resurrecting a car, for things like belts, hoses, fluids, filters, points, condenser, and wires, and I haven't seen you spending anywhere near this yet.

I also haven't seen any evidence of your having taken most of the advice we've given you here - I haven't seen a compression test or any other concrete information that would help us to help you fix it, so I am beginning to wonder whether you are really interested in fixing it, or whether you think it will just heal on it's own without your having to lay a hand on it.

The two recommendations I would make, in order of my personal preference, would be:

1. Reread this entire thread.
Write down all the advice and instructions we've given you, think about them, put them in a logical order, confirm them and ask us any questions you may have here, then go out and do them, and get your car running.

2. Put an ad in the For Sale section here, and then on Craigslist if the ad here doesn't get any bites, and sell it.
There's nothing worse than an ambivalent owner with insufficient time, who "likes" a car and "wants to keep it," but who never gets around to fixing it, and let's it rot into the ground, rather than sell it to anyone else.

Just my 2¢...

- Eric

1971Cutlass

The Oil has been changed, the oil filter, the fuel pump, all the spark-plug wires, plugs, shocks, fuel filter with some "little things".
insurance, and registering is the chomper. Almost $1000 spent so far.
It's not even worth $1000, is it?
Well, the good news.
1 spray of starter fluid and it started right up.
No chugging.
No cutting out.
Wasn't perfect but it works now!
It was burning oil like the dickens.
So it will be sold. How much is it worth?
Once I sell it, I'll purchase another car, not so old, so things won't be breaking constantly. And definitely one that hasn't been sitting for years.
Hope it will sell...

Allan R

I'm really confused by your post. I thought your goal was to get this car running and fix it up. Now you're layering all kinds of 'expenses' that have nothing to do with its value into a selling price? What I have to say in the following paragraphs may be brutal, but its honest and I hope you can 'get' something out of it. Doesn't sound like you have much experience with old cars......

If I read your post correctly you did some (barest of bones) maintenance. And now you're saying that the majority of the 1000.00 'chomping holes in your finances' has been on registration and insurance? That has NOTHING to do with value of the car. It's required by law if you intend to drive it though. So you can't base the cost of the car on the insurance and registration. If I did that, all my cars would be worth about 2000 more than book value. A buyer would, rightfully, call BS on that.

I sourced out the parts you listed from O'reillys. Maybe you paid more, or less. Don't know but this is a good average for what it should have cost.
5 quarts of oil - 30.00
1 fuel filter - 2.00
8 spark plugs - 16.00
1 set of wires - 25.00
1 distributor cap/rotor 35.00
1 fuel pump 22.00
2 front shocks @ 24.99 each - 50.00
2 rear shocks @ 24.99 each - 50.00
I went on the lower end parts for this because it was obvious you intend to sell the car and why would you put expensive parts into something you're not going to keep?

Anyway - grand total 231.00 + tax. THAT is a reasonable amount to pay to get an old beater up and running. It's also something that was NECESSARY to get it running. The car does not suddenly become worth that much more just because you did this work. Cars are money pits. You don't get the money back in the selling price of the car! These costs are 'incidentals of ownership' that you will have a hard time passing on to a buyer. So if you went out and spent 4000.00 on wheels and tires, does that make the car suddenly worth 5000.00 for a beater that doesn't run? No, just makes it look pretty. Not suggesting you do this BTW.

I have no idea why you decided to put in shocks (take 100.00 off the above total of 231.00 and the git 'r running total comes down to a shockingly low 131.00) But, lets look at the shocks: You need shocks for stability and suspension control. That is a NORMAL expectation that the car will have them in reasonable working order. Based on previous posts where you said you didn't have the mechanical ability - I think you bought them (at full retail) and had them installed at a shop for full retail and probably paid around 500.00 tax in. Why the heck would you spend money on shocks instead of spending money on the motor??? This makes absolutely no sense at all. You never replace shocks just hoping the engine will run. You fix the engine to determine what type of performance items your car will need for the project. From where I'm sitting and watching this your priorities are all bass ackwards.

The whole focus of this thread was to get the car running, which you apparently did. If it's still burning lots of oil?
Do the compression test that Eric has been asking you to do. Why are you so afraid to do it or spend money to do it? You're not afraid to spend money on shocks.....and it will tell you why you're burning oil. It will also be a strong indicator if just redoing the heads will end up with a clean burning driver.

I gotta be honest here. What you're saying on one hand and doing with the other just doesn't make any sense.
1. You want to get the car running and keep it (enthusiastically)
2. You get frustrated and decide to sell it
3. You change your mind and solicit help
4. You aren't showing signs of listening to the help
5. You spend (some unnecessary) and some necessary money on the car
6. You want to sell it again to get rid of the headache.

If I lived closer, I'd come down and offer you 250.00 and have it running and compression tested by the end of the day. If the heads needed done, they'd be off the next day and at the machine shop. New upper end gaskets/seals don't cost much. Could even buy a used performer intake cheap to improve performance over the stock intake. Inside a week I'd probably have a clean burning 350 Cutlass Supreme 4door hardtop I could easily keep or sell for more than what I sunk into it.

MDchanic

Wow, Allan.

I've got to say that I thought all of that, but there was no way I was getting it all typed out on my iPhone at work, and you even went and looked up prices!

To reiterate, you don't include the cost of the reg. and insurance - those costs will be there no matter what car you've got. They're costs of driving, in general, not costs of a specific car.
And the rest of it hits right where I said: about $2-300 to get a car running. ($35 for a cap and rotor, though? Holy $&@! Guess it's been a while since I bought those...).

And what's this about burning oil?
You can't tell a car is burning oil if all you did was start it and run it in front of your house.

It sounds like this guy just really doesn't want this car and is looking for an excuse to sell it.
Trouble is, you don't need an excuse - You don't like it? Sell it!

Like Allan, if I were nearby, I'd be more than happy to buy this car from him, turn a few wrenches in his driveway, have it running by nightfall, and drive it home. But I'm not, so I can't.

Could someone who lives around there please go buy this car and give it the caring home it deserves?

- Eric

Rickman48

But isn't there only coyotes, roadrunners and aardvarks in New Mexico??

oldcutlass

Lighten up on kid. BTW he is a kid, he does not understand the economics of vehicle ownership, let alone the joys of getting an old car roadworthy yet. I think he accomplished a lot, and want to congratulate both sides for having the patience of brainstorming this problem thus far!

With that said, any car you buy is going to "chomp" money. Any car you buy will be more expensive than getting this one road worthy, hopefully. Because no matter what you buy, you will add approximately $500 - 1000 for brakes, or tires, or ????, plus the cost of the car, trust me.

OK, you've gotten it running and there seems to be some smoke. I would venture to guess its from all the unsuccessful attempts at getting it started. Please do us all a favor and perform the compression test! This test will give us the info to guide you on whether this car is a worth while project and inexpensive transportation or a frustrating money pit. You can probably borrow or rent 1 from your local auto parts store.

What have you got to lose, your already this far!

Another suggestion is to get a friend or family member to help. For some reason these projects often go better with a couple of extra hands and someone to bounce ideas off. It could even be your girlfriend!

Allan R

X2 from me and Eric. thx Rickman. Hoping he follows through on that.

1971Cutlass

My goal when I got the car WAS to fix the car. Heck! It was my FIRST CAR!!! of course I'd except a free car. Wouldn't YOU??? Your right. The insurance and registration IS what comes with every other car. I was also hoping when I got it that it wouldn't keep on breaking, (I had zero experience). When I replaced the shocks, the car worked, and shortly after it was going to get the real stuff restored, but then it chugged! And everything I have done to the car has been ONLY at this house. Of course Allan r can have it done at the end of the day, he has the time, and the tools, and the...! It burns oil even when sitting on the driveway, but we drove it anyway. I would love to keep the car! But 1200 bucks JUST to re-do the whole interior, is a lot more then I bargained for. It is not worth that much! "the caring home it deserves???" What? its just a car! I will try and get the compression test done once I get the tool. Lighten up! It's just a CAR!

Allan R

Maybe if you had said that right off the bat, it would not have been a discussion item ^^^. The way you posted sounded like you got this done instead of the engine stuff. Sorry I offended you.

Your point? So what if I have the time and tools and the ..... whatever that is? We were trying to help you. A lack of responses in key areas is bound to generate some frustration and friction. If you want to be sarcastic about it that's fine too; I've developed thick skin on this site and I wasn't being sarcastic. Go back and reread this thread and our contributions. If you do and form the same conclusion? I think you'll see I have been trying to understand your point of view all the way through this thing. You don't want me to contribute anymore? I'm ok with that. I know that sometimes you just have to learn this on your own. BTW I wasn't born with a wrench in my hand and the reason I have time is I have earned it. I worked hard for 41 years, which is probably more than 2X as long as you've been alive. So if I say I could do that, then I can. It's not based on trying to show you up which is apparently how you interpreted it. It's based on experience and accumulated knowledge over the years when I had time to learn and absorb it too.

No tears shed for you from my end. That's one of the things you always check out before you buy or 'inherit'. If you really would love to keep the car, find a cheaper way to restore the interior or just put seat covers on it. Obviously the car is not worth much, so why beat a dead horse about how much it costs to restore. We all know that.

you're right, it's just a car. 'nuff said. Do what you want with it. Check with Autozone. They may have a compression tester you can use. In case you didn't know they have a tool loaner program. You pay a refundable deposit you get back when you return the tool.

Do you or do you not want me to continue to post stuff on this thread? LMK and I'll abide by your decision. FWIW you should review the incredibly limited amount of info you've given us to work with and appreciate that we are probably even more frustrated than you because of your lack of clarity.

1971Cutlass

Hello y'all
I'm back!
I started the cutlass up and it started and ran perfectly. I got off easy.
So I sold it for $1000.
I've purchased a 92 Ford Explorer 4X4.
It's already fixed, it was just plugs and wires.
Comments?

Jonathan

AZ455

From GM to Ford, to each their own I suppose. How's the Explorer treating you? Plugs and wires aren't exactly a fix, they're maintenance. Did it have a missfire or something?

MDchanic

Yeah, here's my comment:

With a purchase price of $0.00, and a few hundred dollars in parts into it, you're probably the only guy on here who's ever actually made money selling an old car.

Good luck with the Explorer.

We will forgive you for going over to the Dark (blue oval) Side.

- Eric

ps: get in touch with the new owner and have him tell us what was wrong with it, would ya?

1971Cutlass

The Explorer has been pretty good, but any car I buy will be a money pit.
The problem with the explorer was just the wires and plugs. The wires were broken, and the spark plugs had been in the engine far to long. This truck had been sitting for a year, and some stuff was stolen. (Gas cap, roof rack ect)
though I did spend $63.00 at U-Pull-it for interior door panels, glove box, and other small broken things. It was running on 3-4 cylinders which is no wonder it was running like crap. It has no muffler, and it has R12 AC, which I think is illegal in NM.
I got my first vehicle for free, My second vehicle for $600 more, (Explorer)
I wonder how much I'll spend next.
The Ford I have works almost PERFECTLY, it has 2 gauges not working, and I think the Odometer is jacked. All proof, including the previous owner, said it had 139,000, but the odometer says "56,000"
I'll follow up on the Cutlass, (About to leave out of state for vacation)
My apologies for posting about a ford explorer on a "CLASSIC OLDSMOBILE" website.

-Jonathan

1971Cutlass

I just sold the Explorer, and now I have a

1992 Lexus SC400!!!!

Man, what a sweet car...
(It was $2200)

droptopron

Man that's a money pit if it starts breaking.

MDchanic

And THAT, as they say, is where the paths diverge.

- Eric

oldcutlass

At this rate he'll have a new car in a year or so. I think you found your calling in car sales!

Allan R

Well Lexus has a great rep, but to me it's really just a Toyota on steroids. Hope you have better luck with it. You will definitely get better resale value out of it.

MDchanic

True.

But of course that old crate you roll around in is really just a Chevelle on steroids .

- Eric

brown7373

I agree Eric, that it could be caused by a choke. Generally speaking, GM V8 engines that "start and run perfectly" one day, don't suffer major mechanical failure inless they are run without oil, are over revved or are overheated. I would bet it is something fairly simple.

JIH, you obviously can read. Check out the maual on line as someone suggested or go to the library or buy a service manual. Many of us in the old car hobby have learned by reading the manual. Sometimes we have to read and reread and reread again, until we understand. But my experience is that if you can read, you can work on and fix almost anything car related. Just don't overlook the simple and obvious, and don't assume that what was already fixed, replaced or adjusted was done correctly, or maybe was a defective part.

Another thought, is go to a local old car cruise night, and talk with other Olds owners(or Pontiac Chevy or Buick for that matter) and ask questions. Maybe even ask if someone would be willing to come to your place and give you a hand. Just go easy, and don't expect that someone owes it to you to help. Some guys in the hobby are more than willing to lend a hand if you approach them right. Is there a Olds Club chapter where you live. Consider joining it and that opens a world of additional possible avenues.

droptopron

I think you could say that about a car like an ES which is a gussied up Camry but the SC is a RWD chassis & a V8. That is like saying a CTS-V is a nicer Malibu.

Allan R

Hey brown 7373,
He sold the Cutlass a while back for 1K so the original post issue has long gone away. Just to let you know.

brown7373

Yeah, I see that. After I posted, the thread never appeared again. I searched for it by the word "chugging" and found the thread again this morning, and it had jumped from one page to three. Not sure what happened. My computer has been acting strange.

Allan R

Naw, it's not your computer. The way this site works is you only get the first post after yours as an email notification. Other than that, if the thread goes dormant it won't show up on "new posts" unless someone jostles it again with another post. Since the chugging thread is moot now, How did your surgery go? Are you on the mend?

Octania

Wow.
That, sir, is NOT "rust"
Good grief.
You need to visit or at least find photos of Michigan cars. When the bottom 10" is gone and you can throw a cat thru the body holes... THAT'S "rust."

Engine fixes are easy.
Clean it out with sea form or similar. Wash the oil system with some [not 100%] ATF or kerosene, then change the oil.

Ignition, choke settings should be examined.

At that mileage, a timing set is in order. Easy job with a little guidance. I would gladly help any such youngster near me who was trying to keep an Olds alive. Can't get any youths here interested in anything other than vidiot games.
==========================

Edit Sunday 4.22.12
Ah, I read only page one of this thread, sorry
1971 Cutlass, you are no longer worthy of that name. It should be made available to someone who can use it properly. Someone who has or at least cares about such a car. "it's just a car" - You lose your Car Guy License. Good Day.

PS: **THIS** is rust, sir:

12112_RUST1.jpg

Allan R

Holy Iron Oxide Batman! I've only seen holes like that in targets at the range You just earned the award for "Best Rustbucket" photo of the year There IS a car somewhere in that shot, right???

MDchanic

You should have seen the '72 Skylark convertible I had, Allan - I had to pop rivet sheetmetal from the middle of the doors down.

Now THAT was rust .

- Eric

ah64pilot

I find it hard to believe that a thread like this could have generated 150 responses...it was apparent from day one that this wasn't going anywhere. Props to Eric and Allan for offering their help and for sticking with it even though the OP was barely interested in his project to begin with.

I just hope you haven't spent all of your great knowledge on this thread, I'm sure there are many other people that need your help and will actually give you something to work with.

Steve

MDchanic

I agree, Steve, it was like poking a stick into my eye over and over again.

But then, isn't dealing with a fifteen year old always like that?

[Disclaimer: I will be dealing with one on a daily basis starting in July - so far I can say that dealing with a fourteen year old every day ain't much better ]

- Eric

Olds_71_442

I agree. I think he wanted help from here to get it running so he could get more value for the car in a trade. He had no interest in keeping the car from the beginning.

WoofWagon

Kid,

I'm going to give you some sage advice in Latin:

"Exquiro et Restituo"

SEARCH AND REPAIR.

Keep working at this, it is good experience for you in how things work and are put together. Issues on these cars are very simple to diagnose and repair, also your local library more than likely has all the manuals necessary for the repairs, and they're free.

Have you considered cleaning the engine of carbon by running a can of SeaFoam through it?

MDchanic

He sold the car 2 months ago. I don't think he's listening now.

- Eric

WoofWagon

Dumb move, son. Live and learn......

1971Cutlass

Hey,
I just sold the SC and bought a Ferrari!

---Just kidding

(I WISH?)

I'm still here and listening.

Yep, dumb move on my part, i regret it already...

I'm up to 5 grand in value (Car wise)

Allan R

Why not go buy it back then? Never too late to restart the project. Maybe find another one that's a 2 door or vert?

MDchanic

I think he was being sarcastic, Allan - It seems to me that sentence is supposed to read in conjunction with the following sentence, thus:
- Eric

1971Cutlass

I don't regret getting the Lexus,
I regret selling the cutlass,
I'm not being sarcastic, but it was what I had to do.
Anyway, a 18 year old kid bought it, and he was going to restore the daylights out of it, which i was not able to do...
Still regret it though...