Howdy - 1968 4-4-2 LOTS of questions

Old August 12th, 2015, 04:15 PM
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Thanks Joe. As the resident guru that closes that topic for me.
I'll still look for that post here.
As for the emblem, yep they were black inside chrome. The original I have was painted inside red and a sloppy job too. Glad I got a nice official repop.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
Because nobody doing a restoration would take the numbers from the "right" location and move them to the "wrong" location and then put the stripe on.
Have you ever seen a W-30 with the stripe done incorrectly?

We don't know the history of the car before it was restored - anything can happen in 40+ years. There's nothing that could make one assume it was equipped with or without the stripe from the factory.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 05:42 AM
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Reply #11


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...iles-nice.html


Not saying it's valid, just saying this is where I read it.

Don't shoot the messenger.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ezman604 View Post
Reply #11


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...iles-nice.html


Not saying it's valid, just saying this is where I read it.

Don't shoot the messenger.
I'm not saying it's not true, but unfortunately the docs were never posted.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ezman604 View Post
Reply #11


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...iles-nice.html


Not saying it's valid, just saying this is where I read it.

Don't shoot the messenger.
That car has the incorrect 1969 dash woodgrain also, so the car ISN'T "original". Who knows what else was doctored on it.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 08:09 AM
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Joe, Joffroi's 68 442 is a stripe delete car from Oshawa ...that is GM documented. The 68 in this thread is also documented. Could you not measure the hole placement to see if they were different between the stripe delete cars and those that came with the W36 option, and I turn compare them to Daves car.?
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Old August 13th, 2015, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sammy View Post
Joe, Joffroi's 68 442 is a stripe delete car from Oshawa ...that is GM documented. The 68 in this thread is also documented. Could you not measure the hole placement to see if they were different between the stripe delete cars and those that came with the W36 option, and I turn compare them to Daves car.?
Show me the factory-documented information that Canadian-built cars with FACTORY-APPLIED W-36 stripes used the no-stripe emblem location. Anything else is anecdotal. Lots can happen to supposedly "original" cars in five decades.

Cars with dealer-applied stripes are not "proof". A post on the internet is not proof. The factory engineering drawings ARE proof, and they show the different emblem location.

By the way, there was no "stripe delete" option, there were basic cars (that did not get stripes) and W-36 stripe option cars.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
By the way, there was no "stripe delete" option, there were basic cars (that did not get stripes) and W-36 stripe option cars.
I was with you till the above. So a W-30 car that received the stripes standard could not be opted without the stripe?

I don't think that's what you mean to say, but that's what I'm inferring.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Diego View Post
I was with you till the above. So a W-30 car that received the stripes standard could not be opted without the stripe?

I don't think that's what you mean to say, but that's what I'm inferring.

We are not talking about W-30 cars in this thread. Also, if there was a "stripe delete" option in 1968, what was the RPO code? I admit that there were unpublished RPO codes, like the drum brake option for 1970 W-30 cars, but I have yet to find any proof of a 1968 stripe delete RPO code.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 10:00 AM
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Y74 was the "G. T. STRIPE DELETE PAINT OPTION" for 1968, according to my original window sticker. But it refers to the painted stripe that went just below the stainless trim on the fenders and doors.


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Old August 13th, 2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by rcorrigan5 View Post
Y74 was the "G. T. STRIPE DELETE PAINT OPTION" for 1968, according to my original window sticker. But it refers to the painted stripe that went just below the stainless trim on the fenders and doors.


Randy C.
Yes, required with W-36.

But not a W-36 "stripe delete", which is what we're talking about.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Show me the factory-documented information that Canadian-built cars with FACTORY-APPLIED W-36 stripes used the no-stripe emblem location. Anything else is anecdotal. Lots can happen to supposedly "original" cars in five decades.

Cars with dealer-applied stripes are not "proof". A post on the internet is not proof. The factory engineering drawings ARE proof, and they show the different emblem location.

By the way, there was no "stripe delete" option, there were basic cars (that did not get stripes) and W-36 stripe option cars.
Stripe delete was descriptive, meaning the car did not have one.....not an option.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 06:06 AM
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The W36 correctness always gets people all hot and heavy. There have been a lot of owners of Canadian built cars claim their W36 stripe was original and in the "wrong" spot but no one (to my knowledge) has ever provided documentation to prove that which is really odd since its only about $100 to get your factory options from the Canadian GM archives.

Regardless, as sammy mentioned, I do have a Canadian built car without the strip and would be more then happy to measure the emblems location. If the original poster wants to measure his locations and they match, I think it would be safe to say it did not come originally with stripes.

Regardless, its a great looking car and the stripes do look good. Just drive and enjoy.

Just from eyeballing it, his looks close to match mine.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 06:35 AM
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LOL
Well, my intention was NOT to stir up a hornets nest. I do appreciate the VAST amount of great (and needed) information you folks have been so kind to share with a newbie. As with any chosen hobby, passions can run high.
I will gladly measure the location of my badge and stripe but it was not really a concern for me. It does look great as applied and I will enjoy it. I will say looking at your photo, if a stripe were applied, it would most likely drop into the wheelwell opening. Just trying to imagine it in the photo. Here is another shot of mine below.
Yesterday I sold a street rod truck I have had for 25 years without completing it fully. (I don't intend on doing the same with THIS vehicle) but like the stripe, there will always be heated debates over the value of any vehicle. Is it worth more to keep one bone stock or modified, customized, personalized? To me, the owner decides the value. What I value a vehicle can never be matched. The pleasure it brings me and the joy I get out of making the vehicle the best I can has infinite value. Sure, folks need a basis, a dollar value as a reference. But I don't flip vehicles, I buy one to enjoy. So let the debates continue, just also continue to have the passion and enjoy them!!! And keep them out there for others to enjoy and envy.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 07:14 AM
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One more shot of Black Beauty.



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Old August 14th, 2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Joffroi View Post
The W36 correctness always gets people all hot and heavy. There have been a lot of owners of Canadian built cars claim their W36 stripe was original and in the "wrong" spot but no one (to my knowledge) has ever provided documentation to prove that which is really odd since its only about $100 to get your factory options from the Canadian GM archives.
EVERY 1968 442 (as well as the clones) on the road today have had stripes added in the wrong place...

I'm still scratching my head over the 1968 "W-30" that took best in class at Seven Springs in 2009 with the incorrect stripe and emblem location.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 08:33 AM
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Joe, I don't think the W-36 debate has been real good for your health.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by '69442ragtop View Post
Joe, I don't think the W-36 debate has been real good for your health.

DOH! THAT explains the heart problems...
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Old August 14th, 2015, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Diego View Post
I was with you till the above. So a W-30 car that received the stripes standard could not be opted without the stripe?

I don't think that's what you mean to say, but that's what I'm inferring.


Originally Posted by Diego View Post
Have you ever seen a W-30 with the stripe done incorrectly?

In a matter of fact I have

This is a documented 68 W30 that was a W36 stripe delete car (W36 is NOT punched on the computer card) and also a Y70 (Y74 option) delete. The numerals were located in the correct location for a non W36 striped car. The previous (original?) owner (or someone in his family) incorrectly added the W36 stripe. Probably the rarest documented 68 W30 stripe (or lack thereof) cars out there


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...nvertible.html




edit:


I went back and edited this post because it was not a GM of Canada documented car as I had remembered. Assuming the punch card wasn't a fake it's a pretty well documented car. I think there was also other original paperwork with it. If you search a bit (I don't have time right now) I think you'll find it was recently offered at one of the major auctions. I don't know if it sold.

Last edited by allyolds68; August 14th, 2015 at 12:06 PM.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Your recollection is faulty.

The 68 emblems are all black inside the chrome edge. I've got an NOS 68 grille emblem still in the box. It is NOT red. The only red one was the 1972 grille emblem.
Which, curiously, had the same font? or height/width ratio and chromed outline as the otherwise unique to '68 numerals.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 11:34 AM
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Weird. I'm learning entirely too much here.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by '69442ragtop View Post
I had a '68 years ago, and it's my recollection that the grille emblem WAS painted red. Or could I be dreaming? Is the repop emblem red?

I've seen a lot of 68's that people changed the colors of the numerals. John Ebbs had an Ocean Tourquoise 68 convertible that Dean Franco owns now. When John owned it it had grill numerals painted 67 colors. It looked factory, no brush marks in the paint, very clean. Dean told me he has seen a few over the years that he heard were modified by the dealers


I just recently saw one somewhere that had numbers that were deep red (claret)
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Old August 14th, 2015, 02:06 PM
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Thanks. I thought I was going crazy there for a minute.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
I've seen a lot of 68's that people changed the colors of the numerals. John Ebbs had an Ocean Tourquoise 68 convertible that Dean Franco owns now. When John owned it it had grill numerals painted 67 colors. It looked factory, no brush marks in the paint, very clean. Dean told me he has seen a few over the years that he heard were modified by the dealers


I just recently saw one somewhere that had numbers that were deep red (claret)


not only the grill numerals, all of them including glove box. Also had the ghost stripes on hood. I of course really knowing 69's at the time thought this was changed. But when it was painted, body man confirmed that those ghost stripes were original. There was a w-30 brown on auction in Pa a few years ago same thing.
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Old August 14th, 2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
I've seen a lot of 68's that people changed the colors of the numerals.
Back when I was in college (shortly after the earth cooled), there was a beautiful black 68 442 running around back bay in Boston. The emblems had been painted red-orange-yellow like the earlier cars. It was just striking.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 08:58 AM
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Dean, ghost stripes do expand...any pics? Pics would be cool. For example do you mean like a black car with black stripes? Flip-flops or phantoms didn't become popular for years after 68 and Im sure that was never offered at the factory(flip flops etc...). Didnt know this existed in 68? I saw pics of the brown PA W30 but didnt pay much attention to the paint. Was it a 68 or a 69? I think it was touted as a one owner original special paint ordered car, but it wasn't a Toro color or was it? I think that car auctioned for ~22-23K in 2009 ish. Memory is the second thing to go.

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Old August 17th, 2015, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Dean, ghost stripes do expand...any pics? Pics would be cool.

I think he meant these hood stripes but I'm sure he can elaborate. This is the best pic I have of it from 10 years ago or so:


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Old August 17th, 2015, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by '69442ragtop View Post
Thanks. I thought I was going crazy there for a minute.

pffffft, you are still going crazy; this discussion does not affect that.

:-)


"Back when I was in college (shortly after the earth cooled)..."

Evidently she's warming up again.
Back to school?
You funny Joe, and oh so knowledgeable.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Octania View Post
pffffft, you are still going crazy; this discussion does not affect that.

:-)
Yes, but I'm just happy to know that it's unrelated to the color of the grille emblem of the 1968 442.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Dean, ghost stripes do expand...any pics? Pics would be cool. For example do you mean like a black car with black stripes? Flip-flops or phantoms didn't become popular for years after 69 and Im sure that was never offered at the factory(flip flops etc...). Didnt know this existed in 69? I saw pics of the brown PA W30 but didnt pay much attention to the paint. Was it a 68 or a 69? I think it was touted as a one owner original special paint ordered car, but it wasn't a Toro color or was it? I think that car auctioned for ~22-23K in 2009 ish. Memory is the second thing to go.


What the ghost stripes were the stripes on the hood only on a convert. However on a hardtop it was the same scheme as a 68 hurst. The brown w-30 in pa was a 68 and had them as well as the the tri color emblems like mine. The pic above is my convert before re paint. Understand it was my first 68 and I was a 69 guy so I assumed this was all after thoughts by original owner. But when my car was being repInted body man said those were original stripes.

What would be interesting to find out is did all cars optioned w the ghost stripes also come w tri colored emblems . My car did as well as brown one in pa some years back.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 12:20 PM
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Far as color I think it was toro buck skin . If not then cinnamon bronze perhaps but it was a dark brown like 69 sable .
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Old August 17th, 2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dnmfranco View Post
What the ghost stripes were the stripes on the hood only on a convert. However on a hardtop it was the same scheme as a 68 hurst. The brown w-30 in pa was a 68 and had them as well as the the tri color emblems like mine. The pic above is my convert before re paint. Understand it was my first 68 and I was a 69 guy so I assumed this was all after thoughts by original owner. But when my car was being repInted body man said those were original stripes.

What would be interesting to find out is did all cars optioned w the ghost stripes also come w tri colored emblems . My car did as well as brown one in pa some years back.
wait, what?
My car [68 W30 conv.] came to me repainted from the original to red/ black. The center of the hood is black, the rest red. I figured this was some PO's idea of fun. Maybe 'twas an imitation of the original paint?

Is there a pic of this so called Ghost thing?

I have no doubt my hood is not original- evidence of crash repairs leaving me with a '68 W36 LH fender, '69 RH fender with taller slimmer not-black-center numerals... etc.
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Old August 17th, 2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Octania View Post
wait, what?
My car [68 W30 conv.] came to me repainted from the original to red/ black. The center of the hood is black, the rest red. I figured this was some PO's idea of fun. Maybe 'twas an imitation of the original paint?

Is there a pic of this so called Ghost thing?

I have no doubt my hood is not original- evidence of crash repairs leaving me with a '68 W36 LH fender, '69 RH fender with taller slimmer not-black-center numerals... etc.


Mike posted a pic of my convert w the ghost stripes on hood
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Old August 18th, 2015, 09:34 AM
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Dean, The red stripes may be original (D option codes) but the white are definitely not factory for 68. Look up ghost or phantom or flip-flop you will see why were confused with that description.
Whos collection of cars...dribble drool...Freds?
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Old August 18th, 2015, 09:40 AM
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I'm so lost with this thread.

What are "Ghost stripes?" Like black stripes on a black car?

And those hood stripes? Not factory except for H/O, as far as I know.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 09:45 AM
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Yes the red is the gt stripe and was original

Ghost stripes refer to the white stripes on the hood yes exactly like the hurst
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Old August 18th, 2015, 09:56 AM
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OK, so where does the name come from? Non-production white stripes on a hood don't invoke "ghost" to me.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 10:41 AM
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That u can't answer it's what was shared w me by John ebbs. The hardtops got the same exact striping as burst . The converts just the hood stripes. Wish I kept pics of brown one sold in pa.
What is more interesting was it done at dealerships or the factory and was the tri color emblems packaged w it.

Agreed no option code that I know of

But body man said def original . I don't have enough knowledge in paint to have an opinion.
John bought the car from original owner who they were original . I bought the car from John so info not lost in translation
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Old August 18th, 2015, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by droldsmorland View Post
Dean, The red stripes may be original (D option codes)

The red pinstripe was option code Y70. I think it was standard with the 442 so it won't show as an option though
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Old August 18th, 2015, 02:02 PM
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TX Dean & Mike. Y code yes not D. Mike have you ever seen the stripes on a 68 hood? Real cool if Dean unearthed something unknown till now. I've never seen those hood stripes OEM, but I don't know everything and never lay claim to that. Yes the 68 HO had something similar but it wrapped around the grill up at the cowl end. Cool either way.
Dean who has that awesome collection! You?

Diego Google ghost stripes. They look like they name implies transparent over the base color so you get that look-through effect. Phantom is similar. With phantom flames/stripes you need to move around the car to get the full effect as the reflection changes as the light hits it at different angles.
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