I'm curious about the 64 442. I think my 65 is going to be more than I need in terms of power, which means it'll likely get flogged when I'm done playing with it. I've always had an interest in the 64 model and just wondering if anyone out there has one.
If so, what are they like to drive? I know they have 330 4 speed, but not sure how they handle or what rear gears came in them. Can anyone speak to this matter from first hand experience?
I have a feeling that with a standard transmission, the horsepower would be adequate for a car that size.

 

im sure my 65 is close in handling , weight , power, 70's 350 with 8 heads,m20 4speed,3.23 rear gears. more than adequate power. handling is quite good, now i have a rear swaybar itl be even better. remember only about 70 lbs heavier for your big block. the fourspeed makes all the fun though, heh heh,

 

I think one of the magazines did road test on the 64 back in the day. If I remember right they said handling was awesome. I think it pictured the 442 airborn over a hump in the road! The engine wasn't a screamer but got the job done quite nicely.

 

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You'll find Chassis Service Manuals, Product Information Manuals (AKA Assembly Manuals), Inspector's Manuals, and other documents that will contain this and much much more.
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You will not find the Assembly Manual for a 1964 F85/442 on Wild About Cars. The standard rear gears were 3.36. handling is decent because of the sway bars, HP about the same as the 400.

 

I have a 65 cutlass post car with a 330 4 speed. I just installed power steering on it. The car was fun before switching to ps,but now it is a blast. It is so much fun now that the wife wants to drive it

 

Dave , did you not take that parts car for a spin when you got it running ?
Better yet if you still have the 330 throw it in the 65 basically the same car with a few changes just my opinion

 

Justin !! Nice to hear from you...the car was being driven daily when I bought it, but not by me. It was so bad on fuel that the person had converted it to propane. I just bought it and had him deliver it. Then I converted it back to gasoline and adjusted the timing. I go around the block from time to time, but only with a gas can under the hood, as I haven't finished the trunk yet. I can already tell it's going to be a bit of a brute. I have to be dainty on the pedal, as it wants to kick out at the slightest opportunity. If I replace all the drive train, I'll devalue the car. Nobody will want a 442 with a 330 in it unless it's a 64. Of course, they might not be too keen on a 455 either, but such is life.
I've always liked the thought of a 64 442 with the 4 speed. Maybe there aren't many left, but somebody might have one. Maybe they could tell me what it's like to drive, post some pictures, I don't know, it's just a thought.
Here's another thought, regular gas just hit 151.9 a litre here on the weekend......that's 4.4 litres to the Canadian gallon. Maybe 4 litres to the US gallon. Not a big deal for us oil guzzlers, but still food for thought. I suppose at 200 lbs compression, my 455 will want to drink premium......lets see, about 1.90 a litre......

 

Correct, the '64 442 Assembly Manual is still not available that I know. The GM Heritage Center does not have it that they know of.

'64 442 is 310 hp and the '65 400 is 345 hp.

 

.....and who knows what the 455 in mine is with C heads and 200 lbs compression .

I didn't build it, so it could be anything. Bet it's not going to be relaxing to drive, though.

 

You will pay a premium for the 64 442. Any 64-67 330 4spd car is nice to own and fun to drive. I had a black 66 330 4 spd post coupe with 3.23 gears and an M-20 and it was a fun car. Far from fast but it was fun.

 

Emailed the heritage center last week and got the same response as many times before. "We still do not have the PIM for 1964 olds A-body". With that said, there are some of us that have the manual and just do not make the info known.

 

Dave, I have a 64 442 and several other 64 F85's. The 442 is fun to drive, at least around the block. The car needs restoration. Thankfully the brakes work. I'm doing body work at this point, which has been very time consuming. I hate farming out work, but I may have to to help move this project forward.

 

I understand about the "farming out" problem. I'm trying to stick with cars and do everything myself, so it doesn't become too unprofitable a hobby. Sometimes you have no choice, though.
Have you got any 64 442 pictures you could share with us?

 

Dave , I ment your parts car the blue one didn't you get that running before chopping it up ?

Any ways I love my 330 I feel sad about pulling it to put the 455 in because it runs exstreamly well and flawless to boot ! I think if it had a 4 speed it would wake it up just a bit because, I could rev a bit higher between the shifts and would have to be better then the jetaway trans.

 

I got the parts car running and sold the motor to a fellow who wanted to put it in a 66 Cutlass convert and drive it to Alberta....if memory serves.

I think I'll finish off the 442 to the best of my ability and ponder e-Baying it. One of our CO members has a 64 Cutlass on e-Bay they just re-listed. It went up to $4750 US last week but didn't quite hit reserve. I'm going to follow the activity and keep in touch with the member to try and learn. I've never sold a car that way before, but it sure seems to get the exposure. I think there were about 2200 hits in seven days.

Now if I get driving the 65 and fall in love with the ride, who knows? I have another project and a parts car in the driveway, though, and I'm already scoping out other pieces for it, so the 65 would have to be pretty special for me to keep it.

I had a 67 CS six or seven years ago with a rebuilt 330 - 320 horse, and it was great, but like you, Justin, I kept thinking "4 speed".

 

To add to the discussion... I've talked with two people who had 1964-5 cars with the 330 4spd back in the day. They both said from traffic light to traffic light there were few cars that could beat them. This would be in stock form back in the mid to late 1960's.

If you picked up a 1964-65 Cutlass project car there's nothing to keep you from converting to a 4 speed

 

I've considered doing that to my avatar car, but I hate to spend money and pull out a really nice Turbo 400. I'd need a parts car that had all the pieces, and they are probably hard to find.
That being said, if it doesn't sell I'm certainly going to keep it in mind.

 

It's not a pretty site. The car sat in Long beach, CA in outside storage from 1976 until 2010 when it was moved to the high desert north east of Los Angeles. Again the car sat outside until I picked it up one year later. It needs total restoration. The protect-o-plate was in the locked glove box, to my surprise!! Fortunately the Fremont dual snorkel air cleaner was still on the engine. The exhaust is original. The panels have surface rust and the driver quarter needs about 20-30hrs of metal work to make straight again. Same with the roof. Someone walked across the roof at one point in time. The biggest metal replacement work is the front window frame, upper cowl, and the rear window frame. Many of the window frame pieces have been fabricated or cut from another 64-65 BOP car. Trunk pan is also soft with holes in places. I pulled the heads off the engine last summer and found #8 cylinder with a ridge of rust, which was preventing the crank from turning. Honed the cylinder, put everything back together, and it fired right up. No smoke.

 

And it's a post with ac isn't that a pretty rare 442 ?

 

There were only 563 Cutlass Sports Coupes made.

 

Now THAT is a pretty sight !! I love the interior. Not sure I remember that tach placement, but those red interiors really grab me. I believe my 65 was originally white with a red interior, but it's not going back at this point. Thanks for sharing those pictures.

 

Thanks, Dave. The tach is placed there temporarily. It was orignally on the floor console but the base was in really bade shape...cracked in pieces. I have a replacement console and all the necessary parts to bring this car back to life. Just need time to get the work done. I have not ordered the interior because no one reproduces the sports coupe interior. There is a place in Oregon that has the patterns and material. They make them on an as ordered basis. Which means you'll get it 6 months after it is ordered. Cost is considerably more than Year-One. I sent interior pics and some door panels to PUI, but they are not interested in making sports coupe interiors at this time.

My buddy in Los Angeles helped me pick-up the 442. That same weekend we also picked up a 64 sports coupe Northwest of LA. I drove it 40 miles on the highway to get to the warehouse in downtown LA. What a blast. It was going to be my parts car but the car is in such good condition that I cannot bring myself to dismantle it for parts. It has a factory installed rear window defroster. I've never seen this on another car. I bought the parts car for $1400 b/c the seller thought there was an engine knock, well it was an exhaust manifold leak. The trunk was full of parts, including a disc brake conversion kit. Oh, almost forgot, it has a TH350 with about 200miles on it, 3" stainless dual exhaust, auxiliary electronic fuel pump, new chrome alternator, red top battery, electric cooling fans, and a 3000rpm stall converter. Again, just a blast to drive. Pics below of the supposed parts car.

 

Well that's very nice of the "some of us".

 

Hey Keener,
Unbelievable scoop on that "parts" car. Don't blame you for keeping it. What an exciting time to be in California, being able to find stuff like that. I find things that have been sitting in wet grass, and half the frame is usually gone !!
Now you get to find another car for parts....it just gets better and better.

 

The under body of the car looks real solid from what I can see in the above photo . That's always a plus .

 

I agree. I hear rumors now and again but have yet to see one in person.

 

can you verify a 64 442 the way you can with a 65-with the frame differences?

 

Unfortunately, you cannot soley rely on frame characteristics to indentify the 1964 or 1965 442. The rear upper control arm frame mounts do have 4 holes for adjsting pinion angle. However, over the years we have discovered that the 1964 and 1965 4spd F85's also had this same frame with 4holes to adjust upper control arm position. The frame number is the same as well. There were very few 4spd F85's produced in 1964 but still enough to become confused if you are trying to autheticate a real 1964 442. Just remember that the first 64 442 would have been produced in the 3rd or 4th week of march 1965, so the data plate should read 3C or 3D at the earliest. Also, focus on the rear axle, which was a standard 3.36 pontiac (P stamped on the axle carrier) and not necessarily posi. It would be very strange for someone to order it as a 2.78, 3.08 and maybe 3.23. These cars were built for performance, not fuel economy. The only other gear I'm aware of for 1964 was a 3.90, which would make more sense if changing from the standard 3.36 when ordered from the factory. With that said, I've never seen a real 64 442 with anything other than a 3.36. In 64 this was the police apprehender package and police cars had a 3.36 rear. Hope this helps.