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There is a car for sale local been out to see it twice it has the 442 badges and the W30 emblem below the 442 looks to be a 350 car bucket seats console but a few things make me think its a clone and not a real 442 .
All the 442s I've seen have the cutouts for the rear bumper for the dual exhaust and the round parking lights in the front this has no cutouts on the rear bumper and rectangle parking lights in the front .
I have the vin number
344871M77803
Last edited by Kingdiamond69; Aug 7, 2024 at 03:06 PM.
Reason: Wrong title
1970 Cutlass had the rectangular front turn signals, so there’s been some parts replaced over the years. Bumpers take hits, get dented, and are easy to replace
I'm with Fun71... a lot of years have passed. Things happen.
You need to get under it for rot. But if i was you I would be getting pretty excited right about now.
Are you sure about the engine ? This is like buying a GNX with a 307 swapped in. The engine is everything. But if the carcass is solid, worth it for the right price.
I'm with Fun71... a lot of years have passed. Things happen.
You need to get under it for rot. But if i was you I would be getting pretty excited right about now.
Are you sure about the engine ? This is like buying a GNX with a 307 swapped in. The engine is everything. But if the carcass is solid, worth it for the right price.
Im a Chevy guy not real hip to what the Oldsmobile motors look like.
The first and second post in this thread I posted. Show you where the engine code is, and where the head code is. Head code can be difficult to see due to grime.
Engine code is right behind water pump, and head code is driver side head on bottom closest to front.
OldOlSS said it has a 1970 front end on it was wonder how they can tell ?
"More than the front bumper has been replaced; that's a 1970 front end.'
For one, 1970 had a center tooth attached to the hood with “hockey stick” trim along the lower edge of the hood and the vertical sides of the tooth. In 1971 the tooth was removed from the hood and attached to the center of the grille, and the trim was split into separate pieces. 1970 had a different headlight surround trim than 1971. From what I can see in the pictures above, it appears to be a 1970 hood and front end trim.
"OldOldss said it has a 1970 front end on it was wonder how they can tell ?"
Comparing a 1970, left with a 1971, right.
In 1970 the leading edge of the hood was flat. This was accentuated by a chrome strip across the hood that lined up with a chrome strip on the front of the fender (known as an eyebrow moulding).
When the compression was lowered for 1971 engines, a larger grille opening was needed for cooling purposes.
In 1971 (and 72) the leading edge of the hood bumped up to accommodate the larger grilles. The (now shorter) trim had curved ends the fit that shape. The eyebrow moulding was painted body color.
As others have pointed out, there are other differences not just in the bumper, like a tongue on the 1970 hood that became the stone shield between the grilles on a 1971, the headlight trim is all different, and of course the grilles are different.
Very nice car, but only unique if its an X code. Where as all 71s are unique to themselves.
Not sure what this means. Let's clarify: An 'X' in the 5th position on the VIN would make it a W-30 in 1972, which was the first year GM designated engine applications in the VIN. 1972 was also the year the 4-4-2 reverted to option status (W-29) as opposed to the '68-'71 cars which had a unique VIN. This means that while the VIN alone will verify a legit 4-4-2 for those four model years, a '72 will require paperwork to authenticate. Unless, of course, it's an X-code, which was only available in conjunction with the 4-4-2 option that year.
EDIT TLDR: For 1972 all X-codes are 4-4-2s, but not all 4-4-2s are X-codes, and the non-X-codes are very difficult to authenticate absent paperwork.
Last edited by BangScreech4-4-2; Jul 28, 2024 at 11:51 AM.
Not sure what this means. Let's clarify: An 'X' in the 5th position on the VIN would make it a W-30 in 1972, which was the first year GM designated engine applications in the VIN. 1972 was also the year the 4-4-2 reverted to option status (W-29) as opposed to the '68-'71 cars which had a unique VIN. This means that while the VIN alone will verify a legit 4-4-2 for those four model years, a '72 will require paperwork to authenticate. Unless, of course, it's an X-code, which was only available in conjunction with the 4-4-2 option that year.
EDIT TLDR: For 1972 all X-codes are 4-4-2s, but not all 4-4-2s are X-codes, and the non-X-codes are very difficult to authenticate absent paperwork.
While that is correct, also, in '72, the 442 package meant less as it was basically shocks and stripes. One can see the only 442's that will command a premium, U and V, are almost as ironclad as an X, simply because those cars were rare on their own. Cloning a 72 442 with a 350 is bush league, but you simply won't find a 4 speed 455 Cutlass to make into a 442, so the odds of running into a fake big block 442 are slim as it would have had to have been special to begin with.
On the other hand, I have never run into any deal mentioned here where the buyer gets shook and won't say what he is paying until it is done as he's worried about poaching to ever end up being anything but a screwing for that buyer. If it's too good to be true, it is.
Actually BangScreech4-4-2 you understood it fully. And your add on EDIT verifies it.
My thought process was to try and whittle it down to 2 sentences. Albeit they were a little too brief.
Originally Posted by Koda
While that is correct, also, in '72, the 442 package meant less as it was basically shocks and stripes.
Yes, the overall big picture I was trying to convey was that 71s and 72s may look alike. But outside of W30s they can be very far apart. Kingdiamond69 said he is not that familiar with Oldsmobile, he may believe a regular 72 442 and a regular 71 442 are the same. He may not know that the base 442 for 72 came with 160 HP 2BBL 350. Still a very nice Oldsmobile, but a far cry from a base 1971 442 and its 270 HP 455.
Originally Posted by Koda
On the other hand, I have never run into any deal mentioned here where the buyer gets shook and won't say what he is paying until it is done as he's worried about poaching to ever end up being anything but a screwing for that buyer. If it's too good to be true, it is.
maybe my fault with the whole "if I was you I would start getting excited"... I see he is an older gentleman and a brand new member. Maybe also a big city guy. We can be overly cautious....
I looked at his profile and he's 60, which is probably younger than the CO median. Hardly in his dotage.
Sorry, @Kingdiamond69 -- didn't mean to talk about you as if you're not here. Best of luck with your new find and I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
I looked at his profile and he's 60, which is probably younger than the CO median. Hardly in his dotage.
Sorry, @Kingdiamond69 -- didn't mean to talk about you as if you're not here. Best of luck with your new find and I'll be following along and rootin' for ya!
NOP she is home and I'm cleaning her up getting ready to start ordering parts .
Got under the car and looked into the front wheel wells they are red the guy who owned it before bomb canned the wheel wells in the engine bay black crazy .
Last edited by Kingdiamond69; Jul 29, 2024 at 05:49 PM.
Lets see some more pics: eng, interior, rear end, trunk and rusty spots
No key at the moment going to buy a steering wheel puller and buy a new keyset the former owner has a fuel cell in the trunk i will be going back to a stock oem tank during the rebuild.
Drivers quarter is bondo and rusty at the bottom nephew runs a shop he is going to put a new full quarter on it both fenders are crusty at that bottom lip likely needs a new floor pan as well but got under it crawled engine to rear axle frame is solid 12 bolt rear end with a sway bar.
Last edited by Kingdiamond69; Jul 29, 2024 at 06:12 PM.
O-Type 12 bolt is typical for US made 67-70 Cutlass. FE-2 suspension that was standard on 442 (and optional on others) should have boxed lower control arms along with that stabilizer bar.
Are you thinking of going back to all original or making do with what's there ?
Thats been swapped, should be a 10 bolt. Maybe came from the same donor as the front clip ...
I will be getting the correct front end grill assembly and adding a double scoop fiberglass hood fresh paint updated interior freshen up the motor and trans was thinking of something like this .
Something to shoot for, no doubt. Just an observation: most Olds guys will tell you that the FG hood and the "towel rack" spoiler have kind of been done to death and don't really belong on cars that weren't originally equipped with them. However, you may not be "most Olds guys".
Best of luck. I'll be interested to see more pictures once you gain further access to the car.
The vin posted in the first post (344871M77803) proves the car is a 442, and did not come with a 350 from the factory. The OP is not farmiliar with olds engines and we still do not know what engine is currently in the car. The question at this point is, was the car a W30? Still too little info to make a case for that.
To the OP:
Is the car an auto or a stick? If it is an automatic and the original trans is still in the car, The trans will have an ID tag that could tell one way or the other if the car is a W30 or not.
The vin posted in the first post (344871M77803) proves the car is a 442, and did not come with a 350 from the factory. The OP is not farmiliar with olds engines and we still do not know what engine is currently in the car. The question at this point is, was the car a W30? Still too little info to make a case for that.
To the OP:
Is the car an auto or a stick? If it is an automatic and the original trans is still in the car, The trans will have an ID tag that could tell one way or the other if the car is a W30 or not.
Sorry, I said that wrong. What I meant to say is putting W-30 stripes on a 442 that currently has a 350 is incorrect on its face.
The vin posted in the first post (344871M77803) proves the car is a 442, and did not come with a 350 from the factory. The OP is not farmiliar with olds engines and we still do not know what engine is currently in the car. The question at this point is, was the car a W30? Still too little info to make a case for that.
To the OP:
Is the car an auto or a stick? If it is an automatic and the original trans is still in the car, The trans will have an ID tag that could tell one way or the other if the car is a W30 or not.
It is an automatic and when I did the frame check the outer wheel tubs are red the guy painted the engine sides of the tubs black with a bomb can .
Going to get into the engine in the next day or so and find the codes so I can see if its the original motor
maybe my fault with the whole "if I was you I would start getting excited"... I see he is an older gentleman and a brand new member. Maybe also a big city guy. We can be overly cautious....
