64starfire

Here are some pictures with built in descriptions from the conversion.

Oh, a little story on why the conversion. While working in Iraq, I had already researched most of this conversion. When I got home, the stock trans shifted a little funny, but worked non the less. 10 days into my vacation, the slim jim went out. Later I discovered the Edelbrock linkage was very different than the linkage on the stock carb for the TV rod to the trans. Yeah...oops.....So I spent most of my vacation getting this car done. I had hoped to visit more family and friends, but this car needed to run because I couldn't store it at my parent's place and the storage place needed the car to run. Thus, for your viewing pleasure......

64starfire

Here are some more pics and a description of my experience with Bowtie Overdrives. I am just trying to state the facts and let you draw your own conclusions.

I ordered the trans on a thursday. Their shop is in So. Cal, I'm in Sacramento, Ca. The trans didn't arrive at the shipping place until monday of the week after (7 business days). It was delayed because they didn't have the torque converter I needed. I didn't pick it up until wedsnday because the person who wrote the shipping label put Conway shipping's number as the POC instead of mine...so I had no phone call it arrived.

So I'm working on the car and it's time to install the trans....damn torque converter won't fit!!!! This in on friday. I try and try, my mechanic buddy tries and tries....no go. Monday rolls around...and it's confirmed...they sent me a 200R4 converter. So about 3 days lost there. Luckily I was able to piddle on this and that until then.

So I get another correct converter in the mail a few days later. Trans goes in, everythings together and take it to the trans shop to make sure everything is operation, TV cable.....etc. Won't shift out of first.................

I was planning on visiting Dad in So. Cal anyhow but didn't really think too much about it. 2 hours into my trip I get a phone call "Greg this trans might have to go back"...1 hour later the shop calls "Governors stuck, come get the trans and take it down to the shop in So. Cal".

So after 13 hours on the road, the trans is at the guys house, and I'm off to dads house which I arrive at midnight (thursday). Monday I call the shop and they have a trans ready. Monday evening I pick it up, covered under warranty, tuesday it's in, Wednsday I drive it home, Friday I drop it off at storage and I'm off to Iraq for work.

Yeah Bowtie Overdrives dot com, in Hesparia, CA. you be the judge.

Take it from me....it may cost more, but have a local shop do your work.

64starfire

I hope these pics are helpful. Maybe I should've went with a 200R4? dunno. http://www.transmissionadapters.com/ is the link for the companies adapter I used. The only problem I had was the ring gear was barely hitting the starter teeth so a special spacer had to be made for me. Thinking of it now, I probably could have ground a fraction off the starter teeth, but oh well. I got good service with them, no complaints.

SHIFTER: I used a stock 80's Camaro shifter and had to cut out quite a bit of the stock console plastic to get it to sit over the shifter. I used a B&M cable and linkage, but the lever on the trans selector I had to modify the throw a little to make it work with the camaro detent. I couldn't use the camaro cable because it was too short. I removed the stock selector indicator, repainted it, had a new clear plastic cover made and new vinyl decals made for the shift positions. The letters were cut in reverse so they were stuck to the back side and could be viewed normal. From the interior, it looks stock aside from the lettering on the console. Sorry I don't have a pic of the finished product.

Start to finish was 4 1/2 weeks. At least a week were delays from the transmission shop. A new speedo cable was made new and converted no problem except I'm going to have to get it recalibrated. Still didn't get the lockup to work correctly at the moment.

Everything shifts fine. Purrs real nice on the freeway, about 2k rpm at 60. In town mileage was not improved, but the short trip on the freeway I'm pretty sure it did. Oh and pricewise for trans, converter, adapter, tv cable +carb adapter kit, aluminum driveshaft, was about $3500. Incidentals- probably another $500. Oh and don't forget the $700 in labor for R&R the trans to take it down to the shop in so. cal! Yeah should've sent that bill to the owner of bowtie overdrives. The bill should've only been $200. ok enough...

citcapp

Nice job, to bad you didn't get to enjoy it more with the delays you had. Will look foward to the completed pictures when you get back. Good luck and be safe

rocketraider

How much surgery did you have to do on the tunnel for clearance? Details on the mounts too if you have them. How about driveshaft yoke?

I'm no fan of the 700, but I expect you'd go thru about the same thing installing most any transmission. If you could find a 65-69 big car and get the tunnel out of it, the 64-66 console should fit it no problem, and stuffing any trans up to a THM 400 in it should be easy. The OD would be great with the 3.42 gearing, but a 375/400 trans has absolutely no throttle valve rod, cable or whatever to fool with, and a kickdown switch would be easy to fab up.

Bottom line I doubt you spent much more converting than you would have rebuilding the SJ.

And as you've found out the hard way, Slim Jims are finicky about their TV rod adjustment.

gearheads78

nice work ...thanks for sharing with everyone

J-(Chicago)

Any more info?
I don't completely understand how the 700 bolted to that oddball block bell.

gearheads78

If you look in the pics there is a transmission adapter he is using.

J-(Chicago)

A HA!
I saw the milling marks and thought he milled the block.
The second pic clearly shows the adapter though. Nice piece. I'll bet it wasn't cheap. Great job.

gearheads78

I don't know if this is the same one he used but here is an example.

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/early_olds.htm

KQQLCAT

I decided to go with Ross Racing Engines conversion to TH400 so I won't have to cut up my floor. I will receive all goodies in about two weeks.

rocketraider

Cat, let us know how that conversion works out. The Ross conversion is the neatest installation I've seen for THM to early Rocket.

KQQLCAT

I will take photo's also. I don't have a lift so I will have to do it on jack stands like did with my 63 Wildcat that I converted from a dynaflow to TH400.
Pat

64starfire

On my car, there is no way to put in much of anything else using an adapter without cutting the floor. I have seen pictures of a mod'd bellhousing on a 700r4 and it baaaarrrreeelly fit with no cutting.

rocketraider-I did look at other cars that were a few years later (awesome junkyard outside Fairfield, CA...where old cars go to die) and couldn't find anything that seemed that much larger enough to transplant. Plus I was worried about the floor pattern matching for a good fit. Widening mine and adding a little height in the middle worked just fine though was a pain. The mounts are basic GM trans mounts with angle iron to mate them to the adapter. The 700r4 yoke barely clears the "floor crossmember" at midpoint under the car.

Something I forgot to add pictures of was the crossmember. It's mounted very high on the frame and dips in the middle for the trans. I did this to give room for the exhaust. Oh...and this is a third crossmember for the tail of the trans. I could've left it hanging off the back of the block, but my better judgement said no. Later I might replace with a nice fabbed unit. Mine looks like it was made in a garage. Anymore questions?

KQQLCAT

This conversion uses the mid mounts that come with the car so I won't need a crossmember. Every conversion comes with it's mysteries so I won't know what I am getting into till I start. Yours turned out good just more work.
Pat

64starfire

Yeah I was on a time schedule. I would've used the modified bellhousing method but the guy in CA that does the mod had too long of a turnaround. Plus it would've had to been rebuilt. Good luck on your swap and hope to hear how it turns out.

StarfireFan

Thanks for the great narrative and pix. As another Starfire owner with SJ transmission problems, I read your story with great interest. When my SJ goes out, I am leaning toward a Tanson bellhousing modification to hopefully avoid the tunnel rework. I really like the work you did to retain the stock interior appearance of the floor shift. Great work!

If anyone out there has had experience with a Tanson bellhousing modification, it would be great to have a new thread covering that challenge.

StarfireFan

d2_willys

I myself would not use the Tanson bell mod. I would go with:

Tony
Attached Thumbnails



__________________
Ross Racing Engines
Niles,Ohio
330-544-4466 w
330-720-1282 c


Ross racing has had alot of interest in their th400 mods. I think they do some real quality work. Tony has mentioned doing the same kind of mod on TH350, and if were me, the 700r4 and 200-4r. Check Ross racing out, I think you will be happy with their work.

INTRUDER

anything new on this?

64starfire

Sorry for dropping off. I've been driving the car for over 2 years and no real problems. The only problem is I used stock transmission mounts for the side mounts and they settled so the torque converter was just barely hitting the crossmember as it would spin. Grinded the crossmember a bit and it's fixed. I needed the car right away and poly mounts weren't readily available so no biggie really.

Unfortunately I'm only getting 13 mpg on the highway. I don't know if thats normal or not. I know it's a little sacriligious but I'm considering an LS conversion with the new 6 speed 6l90E.

After some research, this package will work standalone but you need to run the engine/trans as a package. The communication between the two has yet to be copied so you would need to put them in together. I would probably buy and iron block combo from a truck and run it that way. I love driving the car but the gas is a killer. Only problem there is a pullout would cost almost 5 or 6K. Maybe I can wait a couple years for prices to come down. Might consider buying a wrecked truck with the combo and part out the truck to recover costs. Who knows.

Otherwise, I'm happy with the 700r4 conversion. Much quieter on the freeway.

RetroRanger

What was the mileage before the trans swap, not that mileage is the first concern but it is interesting data

Tedd Thompson

Back in the day my stock 63 Holiday 2BBL high compression engine on real premium gas (no alcohol) would average about 10-11 MPG on a good day, less around town......Tedd

rocketraider

That car should do better than 13 mpg. I get that with the green 64 that still has its Slim Jim, and wasn't unusual for the blue one to deliver 17-18 highway, again with 394/SJ/3.42. They will tach 2600-2800 at 65 mph with the SJ. The OD trans should drop you down to about 2000 which should significantly increase gas mileage.

Not that a 394 was ever noted for gas mileage, but...

64starfire

Retro-no idea on the mileage. Engine has been rebuilt too. The trans had been rebuilt soon before I bought it.

I have Flowmasters on it, which with a little research have found they are actually not the masters of flow. Though...at the 2000 rpm range, it shouldn't make that much difference....I even tried putting the Edelbrock jets back to stock. The exhaust definitely doesn't smell rich. Dynoflow's are supposed to have good numbers. We'll see when I get back.

KQQLCAT

I went with the Ross Racing TH400 conversion and my mileage improved 3-4 mpg over the original 11 mpg. Then I got rid of the 2 barrel carb and went with a four barrel set up with a 63 vette vintage Carter AFB and that really helped a lot. 17 mpg on a 300 mile trip and 18 mpg on the return. I don't know my gear ratios but I was doing 65 mph most of the way.
Pat

turbobill

Is the lockup working? What about engine tune? Ignition timing/vacuum advance? Dual exhaust?

My 66 427 Chevy Biscayne wagon gets 19 MPG highway/ 16 MPG urban/ 15 MPG highway towing 3500 pounds with 3.55 gears and a 700R4. Runs low 14's in the 1/4 and weighs over 4700lbs. full of fuel with driver.

There's MPG to be found in your car.

Freaky1

I've got a SJ with only a shred of reverse left and it's gotta go. This was a great read and hope any kind of update shows up someday.

NAS Backyard

I was up and down on going auto or stick on mine for awhile, they both cost about the same and are equally engineered challenged. But at the end of the day I already had a like new Muncie with shifter on hand so I went manual. My engine is tired but my SJ works fine, I guess it's a luck thing. The fluid was nasty when I got the car so I drained, flushed, and added a cooler with NORS filter. But man if that linkage at the carb (2bl) isn't just right, it won't downshift properly. You did a really good job for the time crunch your in. Did your new transmission give new life to your 394 engine? I've always been curious to see the outcome of what a real transmission will do for a 394. The guy who came up with the SJ was probably put in a rubber room. What a total POS. The one in my 61 Starfire would downshift at a light, but you had to wait for it to pump up before taking off. Good luck with it when you return. I'm going to post a separate 4 speed conversion when it's all said and done. KQQLCAT, Tony's stuff is top notch, I bought his manual parts.

dedwardk

Anybody do this recently ?

What is your guess on how much a shop would run to install this ?


I think this is an excellent idea along with a TPI setup .. def a lot cheaper IMO than having a shop put in a crate motor and tranny and get it all fabricated and running condition ..

bob9822

Did you ever do the LS conversion?