cutlassefi

I figured I'd put this here because it would get the most exposure;

I just got off the phone with Mike Knowles of Diamond Pistons in Michigan.
He has informed me that they will be launching a full line of Muscle Car pistons in the next 4-6 months. They will be available for 330, 350, 400, 425, and 455 Oldsmobiles.

The way it will work is they won't be a shelf stock item but configured for each combination. They will be primarily made of 4032 but a 2618 can be done as well. They will have 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 ring packs, lighter pins and coated skirts.
Prices are anticipated to be in the range of $700.00-$800.00 a set but I believe that will include pins, locks, and rings. Ordering time will be 2-3 weeks and all pistons will be made in the U.S.A.

He mentioned the they are aware the Small block Olds has been overlooked and plan on extensive part numbers for all applications.

I get a newsletter from the PRI, it was announced there. I called him yesterday and he called me right back today.

I think this is great news, especially for the 330, 350, and 425 enthusiasts!!!

LX89mustang

Thanks for the information . Also , thanks for your time and advice you have helped people with here on CO .

allyolds68

I'll bet he's only doing an early 400 and not a late one

501Paratrooper

x2 on all your help here cutlasefi.

I've got late 400 diamond pistons.

cutlassefi

He assured me that they will have part numbers for virtually everything. They've given this a lot of thought, i.e. the coated skirts came about because they know lots of muscle cars sit in garages over the winter. They want to minimize start up wear.

And thanks guys for recognizing my efforts. I really appreciate it.

allyolds68

I wasn't trying to come off as a wise ***. I went on thier web site before I posted and there's nothing off-the-shelf for Oldsmobiles nor anything else except Chevy (save some Buick GN pistons). I think it's great that their doing Olds stuff. I've got a 400 G block collecting dust

501Paratrooper

The ones I got looked nice but they're not in yet

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...m-pistons.html

cutlassefi

Allyolds - You think maybe this is why you didn't see anything on their website?
Just sayin.

380 Racer

Nice work Mark! I know I like the customs in my 425, they put out a very nice product.

442KoneKilr

Thanks for the info cutlassefi. Perfect timing as the engine assembly phase for my project will probably begin in about 4 or 5 months.

I hear nothing but great things about your assisting the members of this forum. In fact, a good friend of mine knew who you were when I mentioned your good deeds, and he spit out your username almost instantly before I had a chance! He spends a lot of time at Real Olds power. He says you helped him bunches picking out a lunati cam and related parts for the beastly 461 in his Delta 88. Don't know his username there though.

I posted a lengthy Newbie thread a few weeks ago. (probably too long..sorry guys) If you would like some background on my project, take a quick read. (titled "Greetings from forum newbie in Connecticut) Basically, I am looking for the sound of the w30 cam, but with plenty of vacuum to run power brakes and a/c controls (yes, a vert with a/c! kinda odd here in New England), a somewhat stock lockup (th2004r will be used) converter-friendly idle (if there is such a thing) and with plenty of low end torque to smoke'em when the spirit moves. The car will look totally stock on the outside, interior included, but open the hood and it will be a different story, so she really won't be a clone per say and stock appearance isn't really an issue in the engine bay, although I will be using repro exhaust manifolds (2.5" full exhaust) to allow stock brake line setup with a prop valve. She will be mainly a cruiser/show car but will have 3.08's in a rebuilt type "O" rear diff. I have a set of edelbrock heads and a torker but know that intake is not the best choice for a street car. Perhaps the performer or the new airgap as I hear guys at ROP are making big power (read "torque") with minimal work with this intake. Torque is the plan since she is basically a street car.

I have waaaay more questions than answers, so I look forward to hearing all suggestions from you and the membership.

Octania

Duplicating the factory compression height, or picking a number out of a hat like other aftermarket piston makers?

442KoneKilr

Good point Octania. Fortunately, my previously mentioned friend and I built a fairly stout 468 that was in the vert. Used the standard trw 2323's, an engle JM25-28 cam, torker and ported edelbrock heads were gasket matched and we figured the compression was around 10.75 after I cc'd the heads, which I had the machinist clean up before assembly.. he took about a .001" off. I used 93 octane exclusively and NEVER heard a knock or ping... I'm sure the long duration cam helped in that department. My machinist/engine builder assembled the shortblock and I assemble the rest. My friend helped with startup and break in. She runs great and is a bit too loud even with flowmaster 50's. Of course, she wanted to rev but I always kept it below 5k for fear of bottom end damage. But this engine had a serious rumpity idle (stock th350 converter wouldn't allow her to idle, always had her in neutral) and will be great in my autocrosser since most of the course she will be in second gear (4L80E) and hovering around 4 to 5k (I hope!) for a couple of minutes. But time to calm things down a bit. This car will be a cruiser/show car. Want to keep that big block power but she needs to sound more like a stock w30 while taking advantage of modern cam grinding techniques. But want to do away with those old school trw slugs and lighten up the rotating assembly, not for high rpm, but just because the technology is there... so why not? Whether it's Diamond, Weisco, CP, whatever. Doesn't matter as long as they are well built and do the job at a reasonable price. But before I purchase the cam, pistons, timing set, etc, I will be sure to cc the heads before making that decision.

I learned a lot with that build so I'm not quite a green horn, but still have a lot to learn. Hoping cutlassefi and other members can help us build a strong but gentle 461. Thanks for the input.

cutlassefi

The compression distances of the aftermarket pistons are based on original block dimensions. However all manufacturers have left room for decking.
I already mentioned that Diamond said they will be tailoring them for each application.

442KoneKilr -yes that's Jeremy with the Delta 88. Sounds like it will be a head turner, that's cool.
For your application I'd use the Icon IC886 piston, a Performer intake, and an Erson 228/236@.050, cam if you do a flat tappet, or I can do a custom Lunati roller if you want to go the same route as your friend.

And again thank you for recognizing my efforts. I'm not perfect by any means, and I may have a tendency to have a short fuse with some but just know I mean well. There is a lot of good info on the net, but unfortunately there's too much bad info as well.

cutlassefi

You would have had to mill those heads .060 or thereabout down to 67cc or so. And that L2323 piston is shorter than most other aftermarket pistons so you would have had to take a bunch off the deck as well in order to get anywhere near 0 deck and consequently have anywhere near 10.75:1. Maybe that's why you never heard any ping?
And I have to say taking just .001 off the head is a waste of time and money imo, sorry.

442KoneKilr

LOL! You're right... Jeremy. Great friend and my 468 project would have been stillborn without him! Just talked to him last night... he's getting ready to cut his hood and add a hood scoop so he can use an airgap on his beast! Winter project I'd say though...
he keeps forgetting to tell me his username, but RPO is a bit out of my league for the forseeable future.

Should have clarified during my long winded description that I DEFINITELY want to go hydraulic roller cam but probably a bit less radical than Jeremy's although I never got the specs from him. I leave the specs to you as you know what I am looking for. Didn't know you do custom grinds... very cool.

Performer sounds good and will be a "little" more stock looking, eh? But curious why you chose the performer over the air gap.

Never heard of Icon but I'll familiarize myself the with company and get a feel for them. I looked up the IC886 and they look impressive, but I remember something about skirt coating on the Diamond piston to help reduce startup wear on low use engine like our cutlass'. The Icon's specs show "Diamond finished" skirts...what does that mean? And price compared to the upcoming Diamond Pistons would be helpful also. You can PM on these details if you prefer.

Fair warning... I like to know the why's and how's of a product recommendation.... it's my attempt to understand how these things work and why one part is better than another before I hand over my hard earned cash. It may take a few attempts to get the info through my thick skull (Jeremy will attest to that fact!) So your patience with me would be appreciated as well.

Thanks for the prompt response. I look forward to working out the details and adding these parts to my build list. I'll say "Hi" to Jeremy for you.

442KoneKilr

Good points cutlassefi. The work was done over a year ago and I don't remember the details. He took off just enough to clean the goo and gasket material off from the first build.

As an FYI: I purchased the engine already assembled and it ran ok once Jeremy and I fired it up, but there was something wrong and Jeremy knew it but didn't want to burst my bubble. After 300 miles there was an rpm related noise so we pulled the engine and checked it. The noise was simply a counterweight touching a bent oil pan, but we didn't know why it started at 300 miles. The worse news was when we pulled a rod and a main bearing cap, the bearings were worn into the base metal! Brought it to my engine builder to fix it while I was away for business. He also found a broken piston ring as the tops of the bores were not chamfered and the WHOLE engine was built tight. Less than a thousand's clearance throughout the whole engine. He repaired the wrongs and told me the block had been decked. A clean up of both the block and the heads would not increase the compression noticable but we did come up with 10.7:1. Jeremy checked my math and agreed. He was a bit concerned about detonation but he felt the cam's duration help prevent the knock. Also, I got rid of the small block stock brass radiator and used a summit generic aluminum piece AND used Evans waterless coolant. I have read, and firmly believe, that this coolant can go a long way in keeping in preventing hot spots on the pistons by keeping the engine cooler. My mechanical temp gauge never budged over 180, even after a hard pull. When we fired her up for the first time after the rebuild, Jeremy was ecstatic, saying THAT"S the way that motor should sound!

No matter, it's all in the details and the engine runs strong enough to be a good autocrosser, but a pain to drive with an automatic, a stock torque converter in a cruiser street car. Someday we'll have to do a compression test to verify, but for now, it's no biggie. Thanks for the info... much appreciated cutlassefi. I appreciate your honesty and straight forwardness.

cutlassefi

If you're shooting for 10.0:1 then you'll need to double check the head cc. The IC 886 with 67cc heads will give you almost 11.0:1, you'll need to use another piston. Plus it's .015 taller than the L2323 so you'll need to check the deck height as well. If you're going to do this in the next few months I'd use the Icon pistons. Diamond says 4-6 months but we all know it will most probably be longer than that.

I've done about 6-8 builds in the last 18-24 months, most of which were dynoed, ask away.

olds 307 and 403

Awesome Mark, good job as usual. That is a fair price if rings and pins are included. Will there be dish options?

442KoneKilr

Will be sure to cc the heads before contacting you for actual parts order. If I remember correctly new stock Edelbrocks out of the box have a 77 cc chamber but don't quote me. I agree, 67cc making 11:1 is too much squeeze for my application. 10:1 or just below with plenty of vacuum for power brakes but a nice w-30 style rumble would be perfect.

The build time frame is optimistic so it may be longer than 6 months. Perhaps Diamond will have their olds pistons out by then. If you feel Lunati is the best cam choice for my application, then we'll go for it at that time. May I ask why you recommended the performer intake over the air gap?

Guess you've built a few engines in your day, Eh? I would say we can trust in your judgement for parts selection as many have done before.

If I have any more questions, I know where to find you. Do you have a business phone I can reach you on if the need arises? And do you have a business website I can refer to also?

Thanks again for your time. Much appreciated.

cutlassefi

I'll pm you my info,

442KoneKilr

Got it. Thanks for the info.