Mister

Safety-related questions for ya'll:

Earlier today I was informed that my car had a flat tire. I visited it, and indeed the front passenger-side tire was completely flat. I jacked up the car and swapped out the tire with the spare from the trunk.

Now I hadn't driven the car since September 16, so theoretically that tire could have been flat for 12 days. The old tire, once removed, did not return to its previously round shape. It still has a flattened section comprising about an 8th of the whole circumference. There are small cracks that follow parallel to the perimeter of the flattened part.

Assuming that whatever caused the tire to go flat in the first place could be repaired, is the tire nevertheless done-for? Or safe to drive? The reason I ask is that the tires are a size which is apparently non-trivial to replace.

As always, thanks for your advice.

jaunty75

This is what would worry me. One thing you haven't said is how OLD are the tires? Tires can develop dry rot and crack along the sidewalls and in the tread due to age. If these tires are a half-dozen years old or more, it would probably be better to get new ones.

If the tire were new, I don't think the fact that it was completely flat and sat that way for 12 days would mean it was done for. Tires do "remember" their shape for a while (a phenomenon known as "viscoelasticity), so having sat flat that long could cause it to develop a "flat spot." But the flat spot should disappear over a relative short time period once the tire is back to its proper inflation pressure and driven on for a while.

What size are they?

arodenhiser

I would never trust a tire that has dry rot or cracks, especially in the sidewall. If the cracks appeared after sitting for just under 2 weeks it has a good chance of blowing out at speed. Just my $.02

Adam

Mister

I've only had the car for 4 years, and the tires precede my ownership. But when I took it in for brake work a few months ago, I believe there was a mention on the invoice that the tires were made in 1993. There is still plenty of tread left; the car doesn't get driven for long distances.

I do plan on taking it to a tire place in any circumstance. I don't want them to patch up a tire which would not be safe to use, but on the other hand, I don't want to buy a whole new set of tires (and have the accompanying sizing headaches) if they are not needed.

The current tires, for what it's worth, are marked P235/70R14. The 1966 Service Manual lists the original tires as being 8.55-14.

Using this table tells me that the modern-syntax for the original tires is P225/75R14. This exact dimension is (as far as I can tell) only available from Coker in whitewall and redline styles, neither of which is really appropriate for my '66 Starfire. Diamond Back radials also has that size only available as with a wide whitewall. None of the big-name manufacturers make that size.
Using This utility tells me that my currently-installed P235/70R14 tires are a very close substitute, but once again, that size just isn't made anymore. I can't find any reputable source for tires of that size.

My 3 main requirements are this:
1. I want an accurate speedometer
2. I want to keep my 3-bladed wheel covers
3. I don't want tire failure to directly lead to my death

I don't mind spending money if I can reliably accomplish these goals.

svnt442

I would get new tires at this point. The cracks didn't show up just because the tire went flat. It was just the last point that made them show themselves. The rest of the tire are not in good condition any more to be sure.

jaunty75

Wow, 17 year old tires? If it were me, I'd have them off the car yesterday. There is certainly no resilience left in the sidewalls after that much time. As arodenhiser says, these tires are blowouts waiting to happen.

Treadwear makes no difference. Tires deteriorate with age as much as they do through use. You could find a set of tires made in 1993 that had been just sitting on a shelf since then and had never been installed on a car, and they would still be dry-rotted. You probably aren't going to be able to find an exact match to the original size, as you say. But I think you need to get something new on your car for safety's sake.

I have a '67 Delta 88 which I'm guessing takes similar-sized tires to your '66 Starfire. I put 215/70R14 on it. Firestone FR380 with white sidewall. They look good, and the car handles fine. The problem with our cars is the 14-inch wheels. Nowadays, tires with the width we need are not made, as you have found out, unless you want to spend a fortune-and-a-half.

bil

I like your order of priorities-first the Olds has to be OK,then worry about yourself! A man after my own heart! ---bil

Olds64

I would replace all 4 tires. FWIW, I've heard the Firestone FR380s are good tires.

citcapp

Maximum tire life is 7 years and if setting in the sun can even be less then that. Classic cars set for long periods of time and get driven less miles then our daily drivers so no thread wear is common and so is tire rot. A member of our club had three blow outs on his trip to hot August nights tires were 14 years old. Don't chance it buy new tires. Try Diamondback tires on the net for reproduction tires if you want to stay original

Barry Jones

Get new tires ,dont risk having an accident!!!!

ScottMHoffman

I agree with you need to tires. I have a 2001 Ford f-150 and after 8 years I still had the original tires. My brother was driving the truck and told me I need new tires because the truck is not stopping or accelerating without the tires slipping. I bought new tires and could immediately feel the difference especially in the rain. In my consistent driving I did not realize how bad the tires had gotten even though the tires still had tread left.

slowolds

Unless you know the guys or slip them a 20$, they wont repair tires older then 10 years around here. I don't really disagree with it for anything hitting the road.
I have a car with tires on it from '79. It's is not driven and I get nervous backing it in and out of the garage. Cracks galore!

Rickman48

Check-out Tire Rack.com - might find the size you want and their prices are great!
Shipping is reasonable, and I've a friend to install and balance.
I prefer to go larger [wider] than smaller, myself.
I know Dunlop had a chart that showed different diameters vs. width.
Stay with the same diameter,on the rear, as 'Taller' or 'Smaller' tires effect your final drive ratio and speedo readings, too.

jaunty75

The one issue I have found in hunting around for tires is not really finding ones of a suitable size. That hasn't been a problem. Rather, it's finding tires that are the right size AND have a white sidewall, which was what cars came with back then even though most cars today do not. If you want the correct '60s look, you generally want whitewalls. The Firestone FR380 is a whitewall.

For my '73 Custom Cruiser, I was able to find exactly the right size (P235/75R15) with a white sidewall from Mastercraft. A local independent tire shop I've dealt with many times over the years carries this brand, and I got a good price that included a front-end alignment.

Other brands would have the right size, but not with a white sidewall. The best they might have is raised white lettering as this size is now apparently more common on SUV's than it is on passenger cars.

Olds64

You can get 235/75R15 crossover tires from BF Goodrich. They are designed for SUVs but don't look too bad.

jaunty75

I saw that. Their "Long Trail T/A Tour."

One problem, though. They do not have a white sidewall. Gotta have that, or, in my opinion, the car doesn't look right.

citcapp

look here they have a nice product, ship quick, and stand behind what they sell http://www.widewhitewalltires.com/why_choose.html

jaunty75

Nice-looking tires for sure, but two comments:

1. The extra-wide whitewalls (3") are cool for cars of the '30s and '40s and if you want to give your car of any year a classic look. But if you want an original look for your '60s or '70s Oldsmobile, you want a thinner whitewall, and you don't have to go to a specialty place like this to get it.

2. The tires at this place are wicked expensive. $200 to $250 each versus the $79 I paid for the Firestone FR380's on my Delta or the Mastercrafts on my Custom Cruiser. Do I want to pay $300 for a set of 4, or $1,000? I answered that question in less than 5 seconds.

Olds64

I think the wide whitewalls would look cool on a 60s or 70s Olds. Although, it wouldn't be original as you said.

That is the only reason I am hesitant to buy from Diamondback. I've heard nothing but good things about them though.

BTW Pat, how often do you drive your car with wide whitewalls (are they on your 57 or your 46)? I would be afraid that the tires would be more readily damaged on a car that is only a weekend driver since they would sit for long periods of time (especially through the winter).

citcapp

If you look further into their catalog they have thin white walls redlines and just about every style of tire from the 20's thru the 60's and 70's styles. The only tires I've seen that have the original look most of us want.

The wide whites are on my 57 and I drive it as often as possible. The white wall is easy to keep up does not stain and is very thick cleans easy.

Yeah they are pricey but much better quality then Croker tires. The Croker wide whites did not do well they stain easy and the white surface is very thin easy to mark through to the black.

MDchanic

Don't mean to thread jack, but I've got half an eye open for a set of whitewalls for my Delta (to replace the LAREDO wide-lettered pickup truck tires that came on it), and I'd noticed that there seemed to be fewer whitewall selections now than when I put whitewall T/A's on my Skylark a few years back.

The FR380's sound good, but a quick jump to a review site shows lots of really bad reviews along with a few great ones.

What's the group's experience with these (or others) on soft-sprung 4,000 pound American cars? I like the sound of $60 a tire, but I don't want to end up with something I regret.

- Eric

citcapp

Other things to consider that a lot of people don't is the speed rating of the tire and weight rating of the tire. Not all tires are created equal. When I am driving 70-80 mph I want a tire that will hold together and rated for the job at hand not just the lowest buck tire that will fill the tire well. Price is just part of the decision making process for me safety is the other. Look around and study tire ratings then make an informed choice.

Bluevista

I have Cooper Trendsetter SE P225/75R14's on my Vista Cruiser, about 60-70 bucks each, I like them. They only come in whitewalls, if you want blackwalls you mount the whitewall inside.
This place linked below has a size chart, I ordered mine through a local tire place that carries Cooper tires, had them in a couple of days.

http://www.strobeltireco.com/custom/...dsetterSE.aspx

The tires and brakes are the most important things on a car, you always want them to be good at the least.

jaunty75

I saw them. I've no doubt they're absolutely fine tires. They also cost 2.5 to 3 times as much.


I don't think I've sacrificed any safety because I didn't pay $200 a tire. I think I'm perfectly safe on my $79 Firestones and Mastercrafts.

Anybody has only so much budget, and what I spend on tires I don't have available to spend on other things. These two cars aren't my daily drivers, I certainly don't drive them at anything like 80 miles an hour, and I'm likely to have to throw these tires away because the rubber has decayed long before they reach their rated mileage because I just don't put more than about 1,000 miles per year on them.

jaymann

I'd be looking for some new tires real soon. I've driven on some cracked tires in my youth that I knew needed replacing, thankfully I've never had a wreck because of it. I did have one blowout out in the middle of nowhere though!
If you must drive, stay away from constant highway speeds.
As for finding the right size tires, it's sad to think it's getting harder to find the right sizes. I blame all these darn kids with their 20" rims!

When looking for some P235/75R15 recently ,I had one tire shop say they don't get them in anymore because they don't sell. He went as far to tell me that they're only for old land yachts and nobody wants them anymore (or they upgrade to big rims)

I never thought I'd see the day that finding 14" and 15" tires would be hard!

jaunty75

He couldn't order them? I can understand him not keeping them on-hand because he's right, the demand for these for passenger cars is very low. But, like I said, he couldn't order them?

This is exactly the size I needed for one of my cars. The shop I bought them from didn't have them in stock, but he ordered them and had them in in a few days. I'm surprised this guy couldn't help you.

citcapp

My statement was taken wrong. I did not mean you had to buy a more expensive tire nor am I endorsing Diamondback. I was trying to make the point of research your tires for their speed and weight rating to make sure there right for your car and your driving habits. Sorry if my input was taken wrong, value is always important as well and if you can get what you need at a low cost that's great.

Bluevista

The Coopers have an S rating, 112 MPH.
I heard a rumor that Cooper may discontinue or has already discontinued making a lot of the older size tires, whatever is in warehouses may be it.
My Vista Cruiser would need to be going down a mountain with a hurricane force tailwind to go 112 mph.

Mister

Just an update: I checked the tire again this afternoon. After sitting (uninflated) in the trunk for 17 hours, the flat spot disappeared.

Huh

Mister

Thanks to the fine people at The Old Car Manual Project, we can see what tires Oldsmobile considered appropriate for the car, by looking at contemporary promotional material.

Here the 1966 Starfire is pictured with quite thin white lines. Not white walls by my definition:

And check out the red-lines on the 4-4-2 on the right.

And in this other brochure (from the full-line catalog, probably an earlier printing), it has a thicker white band:


The Firestone FR380 tires, from the pictures I've seen of them, appear to be in between these two examples, in terms of white wall thickness. So I would consider them to be perfectly acceptable for their appearance.

MDchanic

Okay, that's a HUGE picture you've got in-line within your text there.

And here I've been using the "Manage Attachments" window to post pics with a strict pixel limit.

Did you do that by pasting in a URL, dragging the image into the text window, or by some other magic?

- Eric

Mister

Yes, I did notice some variation in the weight rating of various passenger car tires. My car's listed weight is 4200 pounds, and I would imagine that most of the weight is over the front tires. That pushes up pretty close to the maximum weight for many modern passenger car tires.

Mister

The pixel limit is only for pictures hosted on the forum site itself. The brochure pics are straight off of the www.tocmp.com web site. Specifically, what I did was click on the button entitled "Insert Image", and then pasted in the URL.

MDchanic

Got it. Thanks, Mister.

I tend to upload, because many a time on other boards, I've come upon an old thread that promises to contain pictures of the exact parts I'm looking for, only to find they're dead links, but I hadn't realized that the software would put up images quite so large within the page frame. Cool.

- Eric

Mister

Wow, that is an amazing find. I went to Cooper Tire's web site earlier, and used their online tire selector. It showed that they don't make any tires of that size.

So, if Cooper actually DOES still make that size, and if it is available at my local Cooper dealer, then my 3 requirements will have been met. None of these tire-sizing compromises.

jaunty75

Hey, no problem.

Mister

Heh. I just noticed that there's a Cooper side-brand called Starfire Tires.

Starfire tires on my Starfire, baby. That would be sweeeet.



Not gonna happen though.

jaunty75

I think you'll be out of luck. I think we had this discussion once before, and I think bluevista bought his tires some years ago. You're right, the Cooper site doesn't show availability in the 225/75R14 size now. If you do happen to find any still on the shelf at a local dealer, remember, they're likely to be several years old already.

jaunty75

Honestly, I don't think you can take too much from these pictures. They're not photos, after all, just artist renderings. Whether the difference in whitewall thickness in the two pictures is really because the artist was painting cars with two different thickness whitewall tires on them or we're just seeing a bit of artistic license (or two different artists at work) between the two of them you really can't say.


Hey, why mess with guesswork? All you gotta do is ask. Like I said, I have these on my '67 Delta 88, and it's nothing at all to run down into the garage to snap a quick picture right now.

Actually, I took photos of both one of the Firestones, which were installed in June of 2009, and of the Mastercraft A/S IV WS 105 tires I had installed on the wagon two months ago and which is sitting right next to it in the garage. Photos of both are in the thumbnails, with the Firestone the one on the left. On both tires, the white stripe is exactly 3/4 inch thick.

The third thumbnail is the Delta at a distance so you can see the car with the tires. As I've said, I think they look great and look very correct for the era.

jaunty75

My '67 comes in at just a touch more at 4,234 lbs. (Yours is 4,184, to be precise, or just about 50 lbs less.) The 215/70R14 Firestones are handling the weight just fine so far.