I installed pertronics on my 56 and had it running but as the rpm came up it acted like it was starting to missfire an a few cylinders.I called tech support and was told to bypass the resistor .I think i hooked up the wires wrong and thought i fried the coil so i ordered a new one and the old one tested the same as the new one.Now i turn the switch on and have voltage to both sides of the coil(12v) i dont know if that is correct or not .I have a feeling i burnt the ignitor ,and i dont know how to test it .Can anyone enlighten me on the testing of the ignitor?Tech support is down untill monday and they havent returned my call from thursday either.I did pull a plug and check for spark there,also tried the screwdriver on the coil trick,nothing,i also went back to tdc and checked to see if i was 180 off on the distributor but it was as it should be.Thanks Glen

 

Electrics are not my strong suite but if it was mine I would see where you loose juice. If the coil is hot follow it to the distributor cap if cap is hot check rotor then to the condenser. but some where you should be able to isolate the problem It's probably the condenser or that igniter because it ran at one time then quit. In my experience when a coil goes it's smoking hot and they just don't fail that often I've replaced them often to find out they were good and something else had given it up... Tedd

 

I figured that the coil was good and there is no condenser it is removed when the ignitor is installed.I was thinking the wire to the selnoid but it does crank of course i dont know if that means anything.The directions for the install dont give me any indicastion of what to do with the wire on the other end of the resistor once you take the yellow ignition wire off and run it to the coil directly so i asked the tech guy when i spoke to him wednesday and he said if its black hook it to the neg side of the coil.I think that was a mistake.and it hasnt sparked since.I did the ignitor test i found on ehow.com and the lowest voltage i could get was 4.67v the high was 12.4 ,they say it should drop to 0v so i am suspecting the ignitor is fried ,of course there isnt one local to be found and i hate to buy one and find its something else.It would almost be cheaper to but a new distributor from fusick for 149.00 with all the points and stuff in it and then leave it alone ,but that leaves me with nothing to do and thats not good as the wifey is painting the basement and i hate painting(except cars of course).

 

Welcome to hell!

When my distributor was installed 180' backwards it wouldn't fire. Also make sure the plug wires are connected to the right cylinders. Make sure you have good ground everywhere.

 

Okay, I'll start by asking the question I always ask my wife, my child, and my dog:

WHAT. DID. YOU. DO???

Come on, What did you do?

I this case, my question means exactly that: What, precisely, did you do as you went through the installation process?

I know nothing about '56 wire colors, or what anything looks like, so I can't say "Connect this to that." What I can say is: Let's start from scratch.

Here is the "before" diagram furnished by Pertronix:



Here is a diagram of how it should be hooked up:


There are only four wires involved here:

• (+) from the ignition switch
• (+) to the Pertronix unit in the distributor
• (—) to the Pertronix unit and
• the high voltage wire from the coil to the distributor.

Since the high voltage is pretty obvious, we can say that there are only three wires.

SO,

• disconnect everything,
• connect the black wire from the Pertronix unit to the (—) terminal on your coil (says "—" on it),
• connect the red wire from the Pertronix unit to the (+) terminal on your coil (says "+" on it),
• connect a hot wire (like, directly from the (+) terminal of your battery) to the (+) terminal of your coil as well,
• crank the engine.

The engine should start and run.
To stop it, disconnect the battery wire.

Now that you know everything works, you need to verify that you have 12V coming from the ignition wire when the ignition is on, and also when the key is in the START position, and verify that you have taken the ballast resistor out of the circuit, then connect the ignition wire up to the (+) terminal of the coil, and you're all set.

Make sense?

- Eric

 

There should be only 2 power sources to your coil. One comes from the key when its on. The other from the solenoid on the starter to supply 12v to start, if this is missing it may not start. Do not use a the resistor wire or the ballast resistor.

 

yep i do have the instructions just didnt know where the wire I am guessing to the selonoid went after removing the ballast resistor.I have the black from the ignitor to neg on coil,the red from ignitor on pos side of coil,i have yellow wire from ign to pos side of coil and i have black to selonid to pos side of coil.still no spark.Ok i did hook the black to selonid to the neg side as i was told by tech support at pertronixs that may have burned the ignitor,i did test the ignitor like i said i think it should drop to zero volts at some point in the cycle then go back to 12v as i understand it.I ordered a new ignitor it will be here monday ,i just dont know what else i could do .If i would have done thew change over myself i would be able to go back to points easialy but i hired a proffesional(LOL) who did a crap job ,he even left the ground wire out of the distributor which i replaced yesterday.I am glad he went bankrupt so he wont be ripping anyone else off this way.The ballast resistor is setting on my tool box so yes it is out of the picture.

 

I'm looking at my wiring diagram and the yellow wire on the resistor is ING#1 from the switch and would be 12V with the switch in “run”. The black wire on the other side of the resistor goes 2 places, the + side of the coil and also to the ING#2 on the switch. It would be 12V from the switch when cranking the starter for the resistor bypass.


I don't know where you think you are picking up a solenoid wire. The solenoid has 2 wires, the 4 gauge battery cable and a 12 gauge purple wire from the neutral safety switch.

 

Also - if you're pretty sure it's the unit itself and not that you've pulled the distributor and put it back wrong, or there's something wrong with your starter, etc., you can try the advice in this thread on the HAMB.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=554303

Anyway, I've learned the hard way that just buying new stuff rarely solves anything. You need to isolate the issue that may not even be related to the Pertronix setup. Could be a disconnected or damaged wire somewhere.

Or if your Pertronix is blown - you should be able to install points and condenser on it, no? Your local parts store should have these items.

 

I have pulled the distributor and i did put it in correctly,i brought up tdc three times today and checked it out,also checked the wires on the ign switch all good,my diagram shows the odd black wire as ign,2 also and i have tried it on the positive side of the coil also,by itself and in unision with ign 1.I have 12 volts from either of these wires,and i think when i hooked ign2 to neg on the coil is when i fried it ,i have no infinte readings on any of the wires from end to end so they are all good,like i said i tried everything.I am not sure if just points and condenser is only thing missing off the distriutor to make it original what else is there besides a positive wirecoming out,should there be a seperate ground wire from the distributor to the neg on the coil?

 

With points there is only one wire coming out of the distributor. Black to the neg side of the coil.


The switch supplies 12V+ to the + side of the coil and the distributor points supply ground to the neg side of the coil. When the points open it breaks the circuit collapsing the electromagnetic field in the coil and a spark is discharged.

 

Okay, as I said, I know nothing about '56 Oldsmobiles, BUT,
from the information provided by other posters, I have produced more accurate diagrams of what you will actually find.

Here is the way it was hooked up originally:



And here is the way it should be when you're done:



- Eric

 

and that is exactly how i have it hooked up,still no spark at the plugs.I will pull the coil wire tomorrow and stick a plug in it to see if it sparks.I will also have the wife crank the engine while i put test light on the lugs to see if it stays on on the positive side and flickers on the negative side.I may have a bad coil wire ,the ohm meter reads around 6.5 ohms through it any one know if thats right?Any way if it dosnt flicker i have a bad ignitor or i will have to remove the ground wire i installed as it ran without that before,and try again.

 

By the way i really apreciate all the help form you guys.

 

What ground wire is that?

 

the ground wire from screw on vacume advance to stator plate.The professional didnt put it back in when he rebuilt the distributor and added the pertronics.

 

No, there should be a ground braid from the advance plate to the body of the distributor (as far as I know - no experience with '56 specifically).

- Eric

edit: arrrgh. typed carb instead of distributor.

 

On my 62 it is grounded like Golds says.

 

OK, I found a picture of that wire in the shop manual. The screw on the vacuum advance is a mounting screw and a ground point to the distributor body. I'm going to make the leap and assume what you call the stator plate is what the manual calls the breaker plate. The round plate where the points mounted that rotates when the vacuum advance is applied. Since the breaker plate kind of floats it would need a ground wire to insure good ground for the points.


I keep going back to this part in post #3 where I see little red flags....



I think you're right about it being a mistake. Thank you tech support....

 

So i put a remote starter switch on so i could be under the hood this morning.I then put a plug in the end of the coil wire that is normally on the distributor and crancked it over with and without the key on ,no spark,I also did this test where you crank while holding test lih=ght on positive coil post and engine ground and it stayed nice and bright,when i did the neg side of the coil it did too and i read it should have blinked on and off which should imply the ignitor isnt breaking spark at all.

 

I would tend to agree.

No matter how you break the connection to ground (points or electronic), if your ignition system runs the hot (+12V) to one side of the coil, then the other side has to alternate between connecting to ground and not connecting to ground, which will result in a flashing light bulb at cranking speed.
The fact that yours is just open all the time would indicate a problem.
Provided everything is connected as it should be (which you say it is), and all of your connections are good, with no wires are pinched, shorted, or broken, then I would consider the module as the culprit.

I do not know whether these modules can be damaged by connecting +12V to their output leads, as it seems you have done, but perhaps they can.
[sarcasm]I would imagine that their tech support would be able to tell you that. [/sarcasm]

I would recommend a quick tet to be sure everything else is okay:

• Disconnect the module from the coil.
  This will leave you with +12V to the (+) coil terminal and no connection to the (-) coil terminal.
• Set up a way to see a spark from your coil high tension wire (spark plug, screwdriver, whatever)
• Attach a wire to the (-) coil terminal that is long enough to reach a good ground that you can touch it to without too much discomfort
• With the ignition switch ON, touch the wire to ground for just a fraction of a second.
• When you pull away from ground, you should get a spark.
  If you do it over and over, you should get a spark every time.
• Now go get a set of points and a condenser, put them in, and go out and drive your car!

- Eric

 

okI will try your test first but just to make ya feel better i just got off the phone and they are holding my new points and condenser at the zone for me till i get there,for 13 bucks at least mabey i will get some satisfaction from my weekend.Thanks again Glen

 

Yes i get a spark every time so the coil is good and i burnt the igniter,i am going to the zone and i will pick up some new plugwires while i am there also ,these ones are 8 yrs old but havent been run for more than 20 minutes and i dont like them much.New question ,will i need to put the resistor back in the system or do you think it wont matter with the flamethrower coil?

 

Hmmmm... Good question.

The stock coil is designed to operate at about 8-9V, with surges up to 12-13V while starting, so as to improve chances of starting if the battery is low (easier to waste some energy with the resistor while running, if you've got plenty of energy to spare from the generator, thus leaving some leeway for a low battery to still start the car through the resistor bypass). Running a stock coil at 13V for any length of time is likely to overheat it.

As for the aftermarket coil, you would have to check to see whether it is rated for use at 12V, or not. It looks like they make 7 different coils, so I can't give you any guarantees, but my guess would be that their coil would be fine without the resistor. You could always go for a short drive and then feel it to see if it's warm or "too hot."

HOWEVER, there is an argument to be made that when switching back to points, you should use your stock coil and resistor, as the resistance and inductance characteristics may be different, and the aftermarket coil may cause your points to burn over time.

- Eric

 

If you are going to put the points back in use Post #12 From Eric, the top diagram with the ballast resistor.

 

Yeah, you can call their tech support....


OK, I'll shut up and behave now.

 

If you are going back to points you would need that resistor to keep the points from frying or I'm I missing something here. We are talking ballast resistor correct.......Tedd

 

I am a little baffled by all of the trouble that 'golds56' is having with the Petronix conversion... I have used the Petronix modules on about every old car point ignition I have, or have had for the past twenty plus years, with absolutely no problems. The Petronix has been in my '57 T-Bird for almost twenty years. My '59 F-100 312 has had a Petronix in it since '95 and my boat, 460 Ford, since 2000.
About six years ago I had a '53 Pontiac straight eight, 6v which I wanted to convert to a Petronix.. I talked to the parts man at my favorite parts store and was told he would have to order the module... his book showed a listing for 'all Pontiac's'..
I called Petronix tec line, they gave me a part number different than what the parts book showed.. The difference being that the '53 was 6v.. I was also told that I would need a 12v Flame Thrower coil.. 6v has more resistance and therefore needs the 12v coil.
I went back to the parts store and had them order the parts that Petronix Tec said I needed.. When the parts arrived I took them to my mechanic with the instructions that Petronix had enclosed with the parts... My mechanic did not want to install the parts because they were 12v and being such would not work in a 6v system... I told him to install the parts following Petronix's instruction sheet..
I drove the car for two years with no problems.
When we decided to put a Petronix in my boat my son in-law said he would take car of it.. On the weekend my son in-law decided to install the Petronix I got a call from him up at the lake... We keep the boat in the garage at the lake.. He installed the module and could not get the boat to run.. I asked him what module he had used? Response.. for a 77 Ford 460... wrong... the boat has a marine ignition which is not Ford..
I called Petronix got the right module number, called the parts store and had them order the correct module... end of story..

 

Tedd, the ballast resistor is to keep excess current from running through the entire circuit.

The original system was designed with a low-impedance coil that would overheat without a ballast resistor, as its low resistance would allow too much current through (which might also be bad for the points).

The new aftermarket coil may (or may not) be higher impedance, thus, essentially, being its own resistor, and, in fact, not working well if connected to the original resistor.

I would say I don't have enough information to judge right now.
Measuring the resistance of both an old and a new coil would probably answer the question, though.

- Eric

 

Thanks Eric, I understand now why there was confusion....Tedd

 

Ok new points and condenser are installed,i am getting spark,hooked everything up as original.problem is i get spark on number one plug but not number 2.it tried to fire weakly once but that was all.any ideas now ,im getting kinda pissed at it now and im thinking its a good thing my 12# sledge is at the shop.I am pretty sure i have the points set correctly and the plug wires on correctly ,ive checked them about ten times.I am not used to points though.Or mabey the original coil is bad ,i checked it for ohms the other day and it seemed within specs.

 

Is it necessary to have the coil in the bracket to start the car?

 

YES.

Coil must be firmly grounded.

- Eric

 

Ok i did that and shes tryin to start but just wont go ,pops a bit then just cranks.Ive checked tdc again and its right on ,i even adjusted the points again they were a bit open.I am sure ive flooded it now so i am going to take a half hour break and try again.

 

The classic things seen over and over in these cases are wires on 180° out of phase and wires on one step wrong all the way around.

I hesitate to suggest checking it over again, because I know that you have, but...

Also, did you gap the points with the rubbing block on the peak of the cam, and can you put a timing light on #1 while cranking, and see the timing marks in the right position?

Any chance of a problem with the cap or rotor? Positioning? Carbon trails?

Finally, you're sure you're getting fuel, right?

- Eric

 

I'm pretty sure that was my problem a few weeks ago. I convinced myself that I was right at TDC. It was 180' out and possibly one or more of the plug wires were out of order. Also if your distributor is too far advanced or too retarded, that could also be a problem.

Double check your ground to block (from Batt) and ground from block to frame. Make sure there is bare metal and not paint or rust or dirt blocking ground.

I went through so many problems with my setup I feel like I could wire an ignition drunk and blindfolded in a snowstorm now. Don't get too frustrated!

 

Maybe try spraying some carb cleaner or starting fluid in the carb before starting. Mine didn't seem to fire until I did that.

 

It is trying to start but only if i give it about half throttle and as soon as i let the key go she stops trying,I have the fuel guage set at 4 lbs and my garage smells like a gas station ,most of the plugs are wet,the carbs are just back from rebuild and worked fine the other day BTS (before tech support).I pulled number one plug and clicked the engine around untill it pushed my thumb off the hole to find tdc,yes peak of the cam,put it at tdc then turned the distributor untill gap was as open as it could get then adjusted to .016,I wish i knew a mechanic its probably an easy fix i just cannot figure it out.I will have a new igniter tomorrow and probably go back to the pertronixs and flame thrower setup ,i think i have the wires on correctly ,the only real info ive gotten to install the distributor was on here and the builder told me it was at tdc when i picked up the engine from him so that is where i started when i installed the distributor.I do have a timing light and tach dwell volt meter,i am giving up for today it just too frustrating to look at it anymore.Thanks for all the help.Ill probably be back tomorrow night crabbing about it again.Glen

 

Once again, Glen, I apologize for asking a stupid question, but are you sure that the wire from the ignition switch (IGN1) is connected and operating properly.

You might want to try a jumper from the (+) battery terminal to the (+) terminal of the coil.

- Eric

 

My two cents...


Since I've done a lot of points over the years and never messed with a Pertronix, I'd troubleshoot the problem with the points set up and and not mess with the Pertronix until everything was sorted out. I can see what points are doing, I can't see inside a black box. But that's me.




An open ballast resistor could cause that. Since you had the ballast resistor off and messed with it, it could have opened up. Those old things get brittle after many years. You could do like Eric said and jumper the (+) side of the coil direct to the battery and bypass everything until you get it running. Once you get it running you can go back and troubleshoot everything else as needed.