x2 on the jumper, also double check the rotor, if there is juice at one plug it should be there for them all unless the rotor isn't allowing it...Just my thoughts...Tedd

 

Had a car once that would start and quit when the key was released; bad ballast risistor. Ballast resistor is to start on 12v. and run on 8v.. The diagrams that md mechanic gave are right on. I still think the timing is off!! Good luck !!

 

and the game is back on,i checked the points again and readjusted a bit.Talked to tech support at pertronix again and he gave me a different way to check the ignitor while out of the system,seems at its high voltage point it is only reading 8v instead of 12v its shot.If anyone cares to know how ,connect the red wire from ignitor to red lead on v meter and to a jumper wire to pos side of battery,connect black wire from ignitor to black lead of v meter,connect jumper from neg battery to mounting base on ignitor,should read 12v,if you have ls version pass a screwdriver across the face of the ignitor and the v should drop pass it again and it should go back to 12v,if you have the older modelwith magnet use a magnet instead of a screwdriver.I still only get the engine to pop a bit,i have a friend with a 54 chevy i called and there is a mechanic he knows just down the street from me,i went to see him and guess what ,hes got a olds in his garage hes fixin for his wife,i think its a 70's model.He will try to pop in tomorrow and figure it out .i cannot do anymore today and my new pertronixs is on its way still i will have it tomorrow for sure though.The tech guy said to send them the old one and i may get a new one for free also.

 

Does any one know the resistance of those ballast resistors,mine is only 1.6 or something like that.

 

That sounds about on the money, but keep in mind that you're reading will likely be off a bit unless you have a high dollar multimeter.

 

It is a decent meter,I actually built it at tech school ,electronics technician school actually ,but cars are not televisions or computers and i am better with the newer cars than the older ones apperantly,as i do have to trouble shoot airbag systems abs sytems and lighting from time to time,i am a heavy body repair tech/frame guy.I went to school late in life and graduated with high marks but didnt enjoy the job,also it was in the process of change so my schooling was outdated a year after i finished.

 

which seems a bit high, but, since resistance increases as a resistor heats up, your cold measurement may be low, and the working resistance is probably a bit higher, yielding the expected 8-9v when the circuit is operating.
If you want to check, you can recheck the resistance after you get it running, after the resistor has had time to heat up.

- Eric

 

That is correct!

Also resistance is resistance whether its an electrical appliance, tv, or any other thing being measured with that meter.

Older cars are much simpler than anything made after 1976. So if you can troubleshoot airbag systems, then a simple ignition system should be a cake walk. Just don't over think it or get wrapped up in technical BS, it ain't brain surgery. If the ballast resistor is not open it's probably good.

 

thats what i figured too.now i am going to try and find tdc again ,i actually hope ive been wrong.I dont want to pull the valve cover off its one thing that isnt leaking!I did recieve the new pertronixs today i also want it to run on points before i change it though.as to the question about the flame thrower use with points ,tech support says i can use it but must use the resistor also.but no resistor with the ignitor.wish me luck Glen

 

ok i found tdc (had it right before)I may be one tooth off and the gap may be 018 instead of 016 ,hard to see back there.Of course then i had to go buy new plugs as i broke number one when reinstalling and they didnt have the champions i usually would run in stock so its going all bosch for now.Any body know what 8mm plug wires i should buy ,no one around here has the wires listed for it.I was wondering if a chevy set would be the same in accell.

 

You can pick up a rebuilt cardone distributor for about $60 at your parts house. Make sure they didn't load the cam follower up with grease. All you need to do is drop it in and put a your rotor, cap, and wires on it.

This way once you get the other dist. functioning you'll have a complete spare to carry around in case of emergancy.

 

I dont know who sells cardone around here,i looked it up on thier website and it dosnt list my car for a distributor.

 

Well i pulled the distributor again,checked that ground wire ,soldered it in place just to be sure,set the points again ,backed the gear up one tooth,and still she wont start ,just fires a bit and dies,tried starter fluid ,same thing.The mechanic hasnt called yet either ,probably dosent want to get in this jamb,may be hes a plug in a tech2 and replace parts kind of guy i dont know.when the battery is charged up again i will go back to it,just not sure what to go back and do next yet.Mabey i should just put the new ignitor in and try that still it should run on points though.

 

So, the next obvious question:

Are you getting a good, fat spark now?

If not, it's an ignition problem.

If so, could be timing or something else (but not much else...).

- Eric

 

What does it sound like? Does it sound uneven or does it actually fire up (run) and then die? Is the choke open or closed?

2 days ago when I was doing some wiring work I got a kind of uneven loud popping noise. I had reversed two spark plug wires (to the cylinders). Corrected them and everything was fine.

It dies after 30 seconds or so, but the timing needs to be set, choke not installed, etc.

 

sounds like its going to start but dosent.I bought a inline spark checker the other day i will see what it says.

 

I am going to retract this suggestion because on further review, I too have suffered from a brain fart. Your 324 distributor is somewhat unique and almost impossible to find and as always we know what the definition of ***-u-me is.

You are basically at the point of having to look for a professional. Is there someone close to you that has a distributor machine that can set that thing up for you?

Years ago here in Texas I had one done and it was not all that expensive.

I have 1 more question, way back when I was a kid, I had a a 1968 Dodge Coronet R/T with a 440/six pack and a Mallory dual point. I had a similar problem and set those points over and over again but could not get the thing to run. I really think that was what started my premature baldness. It turned out to be the condenser failed. Replaced it and it started right up.

 

Apparently this is more and more common now as the quality of points and condensers has gone downhill. Some can be bad right out of the box.

 

Fusick sells the distributors for 149.00 and 100.00 core charge.I do not like the points they sold me either they dont have a screw to hook the wires to just a slot to slide the clips into.I looked at my invoice for the pertronics installation the distributor was rebuilt and the advance curve was changed to work better with the pertronics(thats what it says anyway) do you think mabey that could cause the non function of the points setup?Also i am only getting about 7 volts across the original coil ,it should be 8 or 9 i think so mabey its bad too,tomorrow i will have a new set of taylor custom fit 8mm high performance wires to try out too as the boots are cheap as crap on these belden wires ,i was told belden has been out of bussiness for a long time so mabey the wires broke down over time even if they werent run more than a few minutes.I think cardone will rebuild my distributor if i can get ahold of them but i already paid for that once .Oh the spark is not strong it is kind of yellow and not even but sporadic one good spark three poor ones in a row then another good one.I am thinking coil also.On a brighter note i picked up my rechromed bumpers today shiney shiney!

 

The voltage at the coil during cranking should be at battery level. You should have lower voltage only in run.

When your cranking the engine, what is your dwell showing? Should be 30. If the points are too close or too far you will get an erratic spark. If there is grease in the contacts you will get an erratic spark also.

Call around to the local speed shops and find someone with a distributor machine. These people can help you out. I would not send that distributor to a mass reman shop.

 

DING DING DING DING!!!!

STOP THE PRESSES!!

You've got a bad spark.

Put every other idea on hold.

The engine will not run with a yellow spark.

You need to find out why this is.

1. connect coil (+) directly to battery (+) with a jumper wire. No ballast resistor.

Crank and re-check spark.

If still no good, then,

2. Have someone crank car over in total darkness while you watch the engine.
Little sparks coming from the wires mean your wires are shot.
No little sparks does NOT mean that your wires are good.
Also, check the spark right out of the coil:
good = problem with cap, rotor, or wires,
bad = problem with points, condenser, coil, resistor, power input, or connecting wires.

3. As stated above, check your points resistance - this can be done with any decent Tach / Dwell meter. If they're dirty, they need to be cleaned.

4. Get another condenser. Any condenser. An old F__d or VW condenser is fine. If it doesn't fit, just wire it between the coil (-) and ground and remove the one you just installed.

5. Try swapping coils. As with the condenser, any points-ignition coil should work - this is just to test and see where the problem is, not a permanent fix.

If you've gotten this far, you've fixed it.

- Eric

 

Is the coil bracket bolted to the intake manifold?


Is the chrome coating on the intake powder coat like the block?


Does a powder coated intake provide a good ground for the coil?

 

will check resistance tonight,and (sorry) never mentioned it used to have a condenser screwed down to the coil bracket,can i just put it there? They dont put the chrome coat in the treaded holes so i would think they will ground just fine,i have used the bolts to do voltage tests and head bolts with the same results.

 

The condenser on the coil bracket is a radio interference suppression condenser - different value than the ignition condenser.
But, Yes, the condenser goes between the ground and the positive side of the points / negative side of the coil. Any connection between the coil (-) terminal and ground or between the points terminal and ground, or anywhere along that wire that connects the coil to the points will be electrically identical.

If you have found good continuity, then they are fine.

- Eric

 

Just curious, how was it running before the Pertronics installation? Did it already have issues that you were trying to fix or did the problems start then.

 

it had almost the same problem actually ,but that was 7 years ago and i decided h the po just screwed up the engine rebuild so i pulled the motor and sent it to be completely re done.While that was going on i had the distributor/pertronics work done at a speed shop.They had a good reputation especially at detroit dragway lots of guys used them including a friend ,they are no longer around though after 50 years or more of doing bussiness.

 

well i tried the jumper and replaced the coil and still no go,so i decided to throw the new ignitor and flamethrower back in ,it started right up! i still want to get a points distributor though and pop it in to see if it will fire up.i just dont see what could have been wrong though unless the condenser was bad when new.Thanks for your help and patience,in a way i still feel like i failed though.It still seems to have a miss ,i will put new spark plugs in and the new spiro wire plug wires tomorrow and reset the timing.On a brighter note the upholstery shop called and had me come in to make sure the pattern was correct before sewing and we made a small changeso thats all good ,then she gave me the completed quarter trim panels to take home and fit .so i will be busy this weekend again.

 

Fantastic! Congratulations!

Hmmmmmmm... Or the points were dirty - you never did check their resistance.

I'm very glad you got it to work, and that you're making progress on other parts of the car as well!

- Eric

 

Good deal!

 

The points looked pretty clean to me ,they were only 3 days old and there wasnt any burn marks on them.

 

Standard troubleshooting technique:

With points installed and adjusted,

• Rotate engine so that points rubbing block is on flat of cam
• Pull coil wire and rest it in a good position to see the spark
• Turn on ignition
• Use a screwdriver or similar item to push the points open and allow them to close (an electronic "spudger" would be ideal)
  (You have to do this without touching the screwdriver to anything else, or it won't work.)
• The wire should spark every time you open the points

If not, then,

Next,

• Put a clean insulator (such as a piece of matchbook cover) between the points
• Use a screwdriver pressed against the "Hot" side of the points to intermittently touch ground
• The wire should spark to ground every time you pull the screwdriver away from the ground.
• If the points worked in the second test, but not the first, then they are dirty and aren't conducting.

If not, then,

Next,

• Disconnect the condenser in a way that will not disturb the points settings
• Do the first test where you open and close the points.
• If the wire sparks now, but didn't before, then you've got a bad condenser.

Since everything works now with the Pertronix unit, you know that the power source, wires, coil, high-tension wires, distributor cap, rotor, and spark plugs are good (or at least not catastrophically bad).

- Eric

 

Glad to see you got it running!

Rick

 

Good job!

 

Get a set for a 360 ford, same length, just turn them around, electricity doesn't know the difference,I've run them on my Olds for 12 years now...Tedd

 

I agree with what Blucar said. I have used Pertronix on multiple cars and trucks since the early 90s with no problems. My Olds has one in it too, but it was installed before I bought the car, but it works flawlessly.

I haven't bought a new one for several years, so let me ask a few questions. Is it Ignitor 1, Ignitor 2 or some newer version? I can't speak to instructions for Olds engines, but a CRITICAL part of installation on Pontiac and Chevy engines was shimming the lower distributor gear, because the shaft would rise uo as rpms increased, and would rise beyond specs and result in no spark. To do this requires removal of distributor and the possibility of being 180 out (ask me how I know).

I mention this because I didn't read (unless I missed it) any mention of which Ignitor and any talk about shimming the gear. Do new Pertronix still need this? Also, the models I use have a magnet ring that triggers the module and it must be properly shimmed. Do newer models still use this, and is it properly shimmed?

I had troulbe with a Chevy engine a few years back, that had been running an Ignitor for several years, and was sure my module craped out. I started checking and changing multiple things, and all I got was more frustrated and nothing would work, including my old points distributor.

After struggling for a couple weeks, I finally, on a similar forum, I took the advice to go back to square one and check everything with a totally open mind. Don'r assume anything even if you are sure you did it right and have done it a hundred times before. Turns out I had 2 issues. I was 180 out, which I couldn't beleive, because I had worked on these type things many times before. The 2nd issue was although my firing order was correct, I was one terminal off. That meant I couldn't turn the distributor enough to get even close to correct timing. Turns out most of us have made silly obvious mistakes, even when it's not our first rodeo.

 

I just finished timing her,seems the low idle speed is too low.the plugs i took out were coated with carbon again,i replaced them is the carbon an indicator of too rich fuel mixture.I am also close to the end of my idle adjustment screw meening no more up ing it but just a bit,i also am not sure how to check the choke to know if it opening all the way,i installed a holley electric choke and havent hooked it up to 12v either i may have to run a new wire from the fuse block to do that but it shouldnt be too hard,problem is there is no index marks on the new choke plate.I noticed my water pump shaft isnt straight either giving me a slight shake so i have to see if i can find one local.By the way i am running the 1181ls ignitor.

 

Since it is running now, with the engine warmed up, look at the carb and see if the choke is open all the way.
Follow Chassis Service Manual or carb manufacturer's guidelines for exact settings.

If you don't have the electric coil on the choke connected, then the choke is probably not opening, leading to a rich mixture, poor running, low idle, carboned plugs, etc.

... And when you say that the mixture screws are at the end of their adjustment, do you mean all the way screwed in or all the way screwed out?
They shouldn't be anywhere near either one.

- Eric

 

havent touched the mixture screws i just ment the idle screw on the throttle arm.And i just ran out of gas,or the fuel pump decided to crap out on me.Good time to drop the tank and put that ground wire on.

 

Okay, you've got a 3x2 setup on that thing, don't you?

I've never messed with those, so I do not speak from experience, but...

The way these things are usually set up, the center carb is used under low power, and the end carbs open up when you floor it (like secondaries on a four-barrel).

The center carb is the one with the choke valve - the others have none - so you can see whether the choke is all the way open by looking at the center carb.

It sounds like you have not actually adjusted your carbs yet.
They generally have to be synchronized, by setting the linkage and possibly the mixture screws, according to the factory manual. You may need an air flow meter or a set of vacuum gauges (usually mercury-filled glass tubes) in order to do this.
If you have synchronized your carbs, then never mind.

Once the carbs have been properly synchronized, I believe that on that setup you set the idle from the center carb only, the same way that you would on a single-carb car:
Using a vacuum gauge and a tachometer, follow the manual instructions for idle speed and conditions (fully warmed up, Park / neutral / Drive, etc.), set the speed to where it's about right, then turn the mixture screws in one at a time, a little bit at a time, until the idle and vacuum start to drop, then back off a hair, then readjust idle with the speed screw, then repeat adjustments on the mixture screws, and keep going around until you're where you want to be.
After that, you should adjust your fast-idle speed according to manual instructions, and make any adjustments to the choke at that time.
After that, you should recheck synchronization again.

I'm not sure whether that helped at all, but it sounds like you've got a bit of tuning to do before this thing is set up right.

You might be able to get some practical advice from George (TripDeuces), who has actually messed with this stuff extensively.

- Eric

 

well after leaning out the idle control jets a bit it stopped the black smoke almost completely and it is running pretty smoth now,I need to check the timing again though.I also fixed most of the vibration i was feeling by replaceing the water pump,it must have gotten dropped at the builders or something the shaft was bent .i thought it was the fan blade at first so i put a flex fan on it,then a few different pulleys then a new pump this morning and it smoothed out a lot especily at higher rpms and it spins smoothly too as i could see the wobble in the old pump.Unfortunatly some one told me that was normal and i listened (duh). I posted somewhere else the question of my leaky dipstick but i will ask here too if it needs a o-ring or mabey some rtv on it to stop the bleeding.Thanks Glen