Tedd Thompson

After our discussion on add on fuel filters the other day I did a little calculation on the last time I had replaced mine and came up with about twenty five thousand mile. Well after a replacement of the metal canister and a good cleaning of the fuel pump glass bowl I now can't get the engine to fire on it's own. Starts rite up with a shot of gas directly into the carb but will die as soon as it burns up whats there. Did this five or so times and can't get the fuel pump to catch it's prime.

Kinda running out of ideas other than pressurizing the gas tank is there any other methods to get a fuel pump to catch it's prime? .... Tedd

DFitz

Tedd,


I used a larger plastic type filter. Is it possible the fuel pump isn't able to pull fuel through the element? Try disconnecting the line just below the fuel pump, fill it with fuel.


If you have some sort of plastic syringe, this would work well. This will ensure the new filter is full of fuel. As a last resort, also try the syringe to force fuel back through the filter and back to the fuel tank. A couple of years ago, I had a jelly/gum blob clogging the fuel line. I blew it out with an air compressor. Once that was done, no fuel draw problems.


The other thing I would try, if you have some gas cans, fill the gas tank. A higher head pressure will saturate the new filter, and maximize your chance of the fuel pump being able to draw.


I had no trouble, fired right off after about 1 minute of cranking after I added the new fuel filter. I know this is pretty basic stuff and you seem very knowledgeable, so I hope I'm not insulting your intelligence if you've already tried some of these.


Dave

Tedd Thompson

No insulting of my intelligence here, I feel pretty stupid right now. I have to be missing something pretty simple maybe a air leak or some other thing that is obvious. Originally when the fuel pump and filter were replaced(10 years ago) there weren't any problems getting the pump to prime Just a splash of gas and away it went.The car ran just fine before me messing with it yesterday so I'm sure it's something I did, but what?.... Tedd

I may not get a chance to work on it today but I know my problem will be on my mind.

47 Convertible

Sounds like its sucking air from a bad seal. If it worked before and the filter is either non directional or oriented correctly as to flow, I would hazard a guess that the glass bowl isn't sealing. Its been a long while since I worked on one like that but seem to remember a cork or similar gasket that went between the bowl and body of the fuel pump. Hopefully you replaced that when you were working on cleaning the glass bowl.
Jerry

Tedd Thompson

Done deal!... Got it going, took a shot of air in the gas tank and it fired up on the first splash of gas and kept running. Must have been a air lock in the fuel pump or no gas feeding the line or something related to that.I feel better but no smarter I should have pressurized the tank yesterday first thing when I realized I wasn't drawing fuel, live and learn.... Tedd

PS it's 35 degrees in my garage this morning, still can't feel my fingers.

DFitz

Glad you got it solved.


Still, I don't think it should have been that difficult. Maybe something else going on as well. Wipers still work? How old is the fuel pump?

Tedd Thompson

I agree. Wipers are electric, fuel pump is suspect but it has been rebuilt a few years ago.I do have leak down issue and it takes a few cranks (more than it should) to get gas to the carb when the car has sat for a few days (could just be evaporation of gas or a bad check valve or a weak fuel pump). . Carb was just rebuilt late this year but has never ran as well as I expected it to. (it bogs on low throttle acceleration). The plan is to get it back to the rebuilder sometime this week or next. when he can get the car into his shop and I can find a ride to get myself home. All will be well soon....Tedd

Rocketowner

Tedd,you might not want to do this,but when I had the trouble with my '55 having to turn many rounds to start (after sitting for a week or two) I put an inexpensive in line fuel pump near the tank with a hidden Toggle switch.If it sits a week, I flip the toggle,let the electric pump,pump gas to the carb, start it then turn the switch off,and it runs on the old fuel pump. The nice thing is ,if your old pump goes out on a trip ,you still have a pump to get home on.

Tedd Thompson

Where is the gas going? Do you think your pump is letting gas flow back down through the valves in the pump?As I think about it don't know how that could happen as the inlet is higher than the bowl level. Mystery, could just be evaporation.

Your fix has merit but I would really like to fix what is wrong rather than put a band-aid on it. Back in the day they didn't have what we are experiencing but again they didn't have ethanol in there gas... Tedd

Rocketowner

My mechanic friend said it could be a slow leak around the plugs in the carb or could be draining back to the tank , but he suggested the electric pump and it has worked like a charm for over two years. He also brought up the use of it as a backup in case the old fuel pump ever gave out haif way home from a car show. That's what really sold me on the idea. I have been to car shows 150 miles from home and if the old pump quit that far from home, It would be worth the $45 and an hours work , to get you home without a rollback. Larry

WHIPOLDS

Larry - I have been having the same issues as Tedd. Yesterday I cranked way to much then when I checked I found the choke stuck open and it will not budge. I will take it back to the guy that rebuilt it less than a year ago. It is also bogging down on acceleration. Thanks for the idea on the electric fuel pump. I have an old ****** that has a vacuum tank, I did the same as you did with the toggle switch .Rick

47 Convertible

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This seems like a remote possibility but... is it possible any of you with the leak-back, hard start problem have installed a non-vented gas cap? I think these are mandatory and part of design on newer cars so they are on the shelves in parts stores.

If a non vented cap is installed and you don't otherwise have a way to vent could a non vented cap cause a vacuum problem that makes it difficult/impossible for a mechanical pump to pull fuel through several feet of gas line? But with an electric pump it will overcome the unintended vacuum.

Like I said, a seemingly remote possibility but as Sherlock Holmes said, 'after checking all possible leads the one that remains -- no matter how unlikely it seems, must be checked.'
Jerry

Tedd Thompson

Most of us it seems like have had this problem who drive this vintage car. One by one I've done most of the common fixes discussed here including replacing my cap which is a new old stock vented 1956 cap. My carburetor has had the casting plugs epoxied and has been rebuilt twice, rebuilt the fuel pump some time ago but I had this problem before the rebuild. I have a new rebuilt starter just sitting on the shelf in case the old one gives it up from over use but so far it has taken the abuse. If someone has had this issue and found a definitive answer I would like to hear it, other wise I just keep cranking... Tedd

redoldsman

It may not be what some of you want to hear but I have a good electric fuel pump on my 54 and have none of these problems. The car cranks quickly and runs perfect. My car is close to stock but does have a blockoff plate and electric pump, aftermarket air and an alternator. I am never going to take it to a national meet to be judged so I really don't care. I have it to enjoy and being reliable is part of that. That is just me and my two cents.

DFitz

Agreed. At this time I don't plan on showing the car, but you never know. It will be nice enough to show. I just want to enjoy driving my grandmother's reliable car around town.


Then again, I never planned on showing my '74 Capri, but there aren't any of those left anywhere. I've gone to 2 shows, and response is universal, "I used to have one of those!" Pretty cool. Weird, I really don't consider it a show car, it's just my daily driver, so it's just my car. Also weird, I get noticed more on the road with the Capri, than the '55 Olds.


So far I haven't had the hard start issue. I agree it's a good chance the sealed gas caps could be a problem. I wouldn't think that would show up except on an extended drive where the gas volume changes noticeably--then again, every time I start it, the gas volume changes noticeably...

Rocketowner

As far as the having to turn and pump endlessly, after one sits for sits for a week or so,wouldn't a small one way check valve ( made for fuel) stop the drain back of the fuel,if placed between the carb and the fuel pump.
Also aren't there some in line gas filters made with a check valve. Maybe this would take care of the hard starts after sitting a week or more. The reasonably priced fuel pump and hidden toggle totally is taking care of my original starter , and my leg cramps from all that unnecessary pumping. The judges can kiss my Nash. Larry

Frank Allen

I like the stock pumps, my 55 is on its second one since new, I rebuilt it my self, I love your 54 it is really a rare one, I had a new 54 super 88 and through years of owning 54 and 55 olds I can say the 54 was better built from factory, I also added A/c to mine and alt, but windshield wipers are vacume and work well. I hope you did not get clobbered with recent tornatos in your area. maybe along the way ill be able to catch up with you.
Frank Allen

WHIPOLDS

I got my carb back today after having it checked out. Of course the ethanol is giving me problems. The accelerator pump was bad. Also my choke tube into the manifold is putting crud into the choke housing. I got a choke stove kit to bypass it, but I do not like the appearance. Anyone have any other solutions before I change it over.
Rick

redoldsman

Thanks for the compliments Frank. I really enjoy the car. It is scheduled to be in the Dallas Autorama in February. We had no damage from the recent tornado. We were not home when it came through. It came about a mile from our house. I could have stood on my deck and watched as it crossed I-30 where 8 people were killed when their cars were lifted off the overpass and dropped below. It was horrible. I would love to catch up with you one day.

Olds Scott

Whipholds, is the tube that runs thru the intake manifold still in good shape, they rot away from heat and moisture and will cause crud to get in the choke mechanism. I had to replace mine will doing my rebuild.

WHIPOLDS

Olds Scott - That tube has never been replaced so I bet it is bad shape. I was not ready to pull the intake yet. Thanks Rick