Sub Standard Upshift Diagnosis
#1
Sub Standard Upshift Diagnosis
Dear All,
Now that i've been driving my car daily, i've been noticing some behaviour i have not been able to diagnose with the CSM.
- Previous Owner installed "Hurst Hot-Shift 2"
- Detent control cable not working correctly. Cable will not retract into the housing on the pedal, and pushing down the gas will not downshift at WOT.
The issue i am having is a sub-standard upshift at very low throttle. For instance, if i drive as if i have an eggshell under my foot. The transmission shifts so hard that i notice a KLUNK.
If i mash the gas to the floor, it shifts so hard that the wheels chirp
Any help is great!
Now that i've been driving my car daily, i've been noticing some behaviour i have not been able to diagnose with the CSM.
- Previous Owner installed "Hurst Hot-Shift 2"
- Detent control cable not working correctly. Cable will not retract into the housing on the pedal, and pushing down the gas will not downshift at WOT.
The issue i am having is a sub-standard upshift at very low throttle. For instance, if i drive as if i have an eggshell under my foot. The transmission shifts so hard that i notice a KLUNK.
If i mash the gas to the floor, it shifts so hard that the wheels chirp
Any help is great!
#2
sounds like it has a shift kit. as far as the detent cable goes make sure it's installed properly . Check your drive shaft make sure your trans is tight to the cross member. That could be the clunk you are hearing.
Last edited by coppercutlass; August 28th, 2012 at 08:32 AM.
#3
Only reason why i suspect it has a shift kit is because i found an empty shift kit box it the trunk when i bought the car.
So you mean to check the torque on the bolts of the rear transmission mount? I have a crossover with 2 humps.
Right now, the detent cable is in fully extended position (Viewed on top of the pedal). To check the linkage do i simply remove the bolt that holds the cable to the transmission and inspect?
#4
yeah a shift kit usually has some good snap to it depending on what kit they chose. I have had a shift kit in my car for the last 5 years and it's good. The detent cable you will have to unbolt and check it it's engaged all it is is a hook and loop. I have only installed them with the trans off . You can also check by dropping the trans pan but that is more messy .
#7
Great, I will look at the detent cable tonight and make sure the linkage is there.
Am i able to access the cable if i crawl under the car??
Is there any chance the guy messed up the detent linkage while installing the shift kit?
This is what the box looks like
Am i able to access the cable if i crawl under the car??
Is there any chance the guy messed up the detent linkage while installing the shift kit?
This is what the box looks like
#8
yep find out what he didnt use to figure out what kit is in it. The detent cable is installed through the top. They might have not installed it correctly. Or they left it that way and they manually down shift .
#9
I notice when i really push down on the gas, the wheels chirp from 1st to 2nd gear. Not sure if that's normal.
SO, if he removed the detent linkage, is it possible for me to buy that somewhere? I guess my first check will be to remove the cable before i start messing with the pan...
#10
My car chirps hard 1 to 2 and if in really on it 3rd too. It's common with most shift kits. If you unbolt the detent cable all you can do is try to fish it. since its on a hook and loop. when you first un bolt it pull on it if it feels like it has a little tension then it's installed. The detent is always set with you pulling the throttle to wot w/ the car off then pulling up on the cable to set it. It's been a while since i did one but it's in most manuals how to do it .
#11
If the cable is missing from the trans, you will need to remove the oil pan and reinstall the detent lever and link. All the detent cable does is downshift the trans when flooring the throttle. Go to a transmission shop and ask if the have extra parts sitting around, if not pm me. I'm pretty sure I have some.
As far as the hard shifts, if it bothers you the spacer plate will need to be replaced. The spacer plate fits between the transmission case and the valve body. Either order a OEM replacement or get another shift kit and install it with the towing or RV calibration. It will still have a firm upshift but wont have the bang-screech from the tires.
As far as the hard shifts, if it bothers you the spacer plate will need to be replaced. The spacer plate fits between the transmission case and the valve body. Either order a OEM replacement or get another shift kit and install it with the towing or RV calibration. It will still have a firm upshift but wont have the bang-screech from the tires.
#13
Gentlemen,
So the cable was indeed connected to the trans. I unbolted the 7/16 bolt and the cable would pull out about an inch then snap back into the transmission.
I went back into the cockpit and the cable on the pedal was still in fully extended positio. What does that mean?? Is my cable broken on the inside??
So the cable was indeed connected to the trans. I unbolted the 7/16 bolt and the cable would pull out about an inch then snap back into the transmission.
I went back into the cockpit and the cable on the pedal was still in fully extended positio. What does that mean?? Is my cable broken on the inside??
#15
You may try to fit a hex key into the vacuum nipple of the modulator, and see if there's an adjustment screw in there. If so, you can probably get more gentle shifts by adjusting it. I used one of them yrs ago, and turned it inwards a turn at a time until it was too harsh, then back out 1/2 turn at a time until it was acceptable.
#16
In the case of a bad detent cable, where can i get one? I know they make repops but i remember a couple guys complaining that they're not the same as the original?
#17
Gentlemen,
Here is a picture of my problem. As you can see, the detent cable is fully extended, and no matter how hard i try, it won't retract into the housing.
On the transmission side however. WHen i pull out the detent cable housing, i can see it's connected into the transmission, and it has spring resistance.
Here is a picture of my problem. As you can see, the detent cable is fully extended, and no matter how hard i try, it won't retract into the housing.
On the transmission side however. WHen i pull out the detent cable housing, i can see it's connected into the transmission, and it has spring resistance.
#20
The question is, if you pull on the protruding end of that cable above the gas pedal, do you get the same movement, and feel the same spring pressure, that you get when pulling the cable from right at the transmission?
If not, then perhaps the cable is frozen inside the sheath. If so, then removing it, and diligent application of penetrating oil and force may free it, followed by application of cable grease and reassembly.
- Eric
If not, then perhaps the cable is frozen inside the sheath. If so, then removing it, and diligent application of penetrating oil and force may free it, followed by application of cable grease and reassembly.
- Eric
#21
I can't pull the cable at all inside the car..
I don't feel the same spring pressure that i did when I removed the fitting on the transmission. I can't even push it in or out.
The funny thing, when I removed the transmission side fitting, I didn't see an eyelet or hook, just a cable/wire.
I don't feel the same spring pressure that i did when I removed the fitting on the transmission. I can't even push it in or out.
The funny thing, when I removed the transmission side fitting, I didn't see an eyelet or hook, just a cable/wire.
Last edited by Tony72Cutlass'S'; August 29th, 2012 at 05:52 AM.
#22
I guess that'll be my last resort, If I can't get this cable to work.
Anyone have a part number as backup?
#23
I hate to say this, Tony, but it looks to me like you're going to have to drop the pan, confirm proper action of the internal lever, release the cable, free it up, then reinstall it.
Get a pretty big pan, because no matter how carefully you try to dump the fluid from one corner, it'll end up sloshing from everywhere at once, soak you, and get all over.
MAW change the filter and gasket while you're there.
- Eric
Get a pretty big pan, because no matter how carefully you try to dump the fluid from one corner, it'll end up sloshing from everywhere at once, soak you, and get all over.
MAW change the filter and gasket while you're there.
- Eric
#24
I hate to say this, Tony, but it looks to me like you're going to have to drop the pan, confirm proper action of the internal lever, release the cable, free it up, then reinstall it.
Get a pretty big pan, because no matter how carefully you try to dump the fluid from one corner, it'll end up sloshing from everywhere at once, soak you, and get all over.
MAW change the filter and gasket while you're there.
- Eric
Get a pretty big pan, because no matter how carefully you try to dump the fluid from one corner, it'll end up sloshing from everywhere at once, soak you, and get all over.
MAW change the filter and gasket while you're there.
- Eric
Just saying, MAW is pretty much a verb now in my language.
I've never changed a transmission pan or oil. Do i just loosen the pan on one side and the oil drips out slowly? That's kind of what i did with the rear differential cover. Except it ended covering me with oil anyway...
#25
To elaborate (unnecessarily):
What probably happened is that moisture got into the cable (along with rock salt and grit), got very well settled over time, but remained free because of constant movement, then the car was left to sit for a period of time, the crud in the cable solidified, and the next time it was driven, it was loose enough to pull out with a good push of the pedal, but too tight for the spring to pull it back.
If you give it a good soak in penetrating oil and lube it up well with a spray-type cable grease, it should work fine.
- Eric
What probably happened is that moisture got into the cable (along with rock salt and grit), got very well settled over time, but remained free because of constant movement, then the car was left to sit for a period of time, the crud in the cable solidified, and the next time it was driven, it was loose enough to pull out with a good push of the pedal, but too tight for the spring to pull it back.
If you give it a good soak in penetrating oil and lube it up well with a spray-type cable grease, it should work fine.
- Eric
#26
Yeah. Right.
You loosen the bolts, with one side looser than the others so it will pour out there, after a while a tiny bit begins to drip out. You pry the pan a little to get it open more, and a tiny bit more drips out. You loosen the bolts a bit more, but nothing changes. You loosen them more, the pan suddenly falls, oil pours out from all four sides at once, soaking you, your hair, your clothes, and the floor.
Then you get to lie in the puddle (or a pile of OilSorb) for the rest of the time you work on it.
So, yeah, it basically happens like you said.
- Eric
#27
Ha ha.
Yeah. Right.
You loosen the bolts, with one side looser than the others so it will pour out there, after a while a tiny bit begins to drip out. You pry the pan a little to get it open more, and a tiny bit more drips out. You loosen the bolts a bit more, but nothing changes. You loosen them more, the pan suddenly falls, oil pours out from all four sides at once, soaking you, your hair, your clothes, and the floor.
Then you get to lie in the puddle (or a pile of OilSorb) for the rest of the time you work on it.
So, yeah, it basically happens like you said.
- Eric
Yeah. Right.
You loosen the bolts, with one side looser than the others so it will pour out there, after a while a tiny bit begins to drip out. You pry the pan a little to get it open more, and a tiny bit more drips out. You loosen the bolts a bit more, but nothing changes. You loosen them more, the pan suddenly falls, oil pours out from all four sides at once, soaking you, your hair, your clothes, and the floor.
Then you get to lie in the puddle (or a pile of OilSorb) for the rest of the time you work on it.
So, yeah, it basically happens like you said.
- Eric
#28
#29
Gentlemen,
Here is a picture of my problem. As you can see, the detent cable is fully extended, and no matter how hard i try, it won't retract into the housing.
On the transmission side however. WHen i pull out the detent cable housing, i can see it's connected into the transmission, and it has spring resistance.
Thats the way its suppose to work. Once the pedal goes to WOT it pulls a lever inside the trans to downshift into 2nd gear. It wont go back into the cable casing. As long as the cable travel and throttle pedal movement max out at the same time all is good.
Here is a picture of my problem. As you can see, the detent cable is fully extended, and no matter how hard i try, it won't retract into the housing.
On the transmission side however. WHen i pull out the detent cable housing, i can see it's connected into the transmission, and it has spring resistance.
Thats the way its suppose to work. Once the pedal goes to WOT it pulls a lever inside the trans to downshift into 2nd gear. It wont go back into the cable casing. As long as the cable travel and throttle pedal movement max out at the same time all is good.
#30
Also,
I noticed in the 1973 Cutlass manual that the downshift cable ALSO attaches to the pedal. If my cable has a bad problem then this one is 13$ on rockauto.
Does anyone know if the 1973 cutlass cable is adaptable to 1972?
I noticed in the 1973 Cutlass manual that the downshift cable ALSO attaches to the pedal. If my cable has a bad problem then this one is 13$ on rockauto.
Does anyone know if the 1973 cutlass cable is adaptable to 1972?
#31
SO,
By replacing my Dentent Cable with the proper one from autozone (13$). My car shifts great, MUCH better than before.
I'm running into another issue, well, i dunno if it's an issue, but here it is.
Around 58-60MPH, the car feels great, not a sound or vibration.
65MPH, i feel a resonant vibration coming from the floor. kind of like something is out of balance.
So i pulled over, and figured "Maybe its my transmission mount?", sure enough, if i push really hard, i seem to be able to easily push my transmission back and forth about 1/8''.
Does this mean the tranny mount is bad? If so, what kind of a job is it to replace it?
Thanks!
By replacing my Dentent Cable with the proper one from autozone (13$). My car shifts great, MUCH better than before.
I'm running into another issue, well, i dunno if it's an issue, but here it is.
Around 58-60MPH, the car feels great, not a sound or vibration.
65MPH, i feel a resonant vibration coming from the floor. kind of like something is out of balance.
So i pulled over, and figured "Maybe its my transmission mount?", sure enough, if i push really hard, i seem to be able to easily push my transmission back and forth about 1/8''.
Does this mean the tranny mount is bad? If so, what kind of a job is it to replace it?
Thanks!
#32
Tony it's really easy! Put a jack under the tran pan with a block of wood on it (so the jack pad won't dent it) and just jack it up enough to get the pressure off the trans mount.
Remove 4 bolts, remove mount...I suggest replacing it with the Energy suspension polyurethane trans mount. It will last a lot longer and comes with all of the correct hardware. Installation is reverse of removal.
P.S. If you wanna fix that "chirp" you hear when shifting 2nd gear I can help you find a nice 455! It'll turn your "chirp" into a "wooharrhhhrrarhrhhrrraaarrrhhhhrrr"
Remove 4 bolts, remove mount...I suggest replacing it with the Energy suspension polyurethane trans mount. It will last a lot longer and comes with all of the correct hardware. Installation is reverse of removal.
P.S. If you wanna fix that "chirp" you hear when shifting 2nd gear I can help you find a nice 455! It'll turn your "chirp" into a "wooharrhhhrrarhrhhrrraaarrrhhhhrrr"
#33
Tony it's really easy! Put a jack under the tran pan with a block of wood on it (so the jack pad won't dent it) and just jack it up enough to get the pressure off the trans mount.
Remove 4 bolts, remove mount...I suggest replacing it with the Energy suspension polyurethane trans mount. It will last a lot longer and comes with all of the correct hardware. Installation is reverse of removal.
P.S. If you wanna fix that "chirp" you hear when shifting 2nd gear I can help you find a nice 455! It'll turn your "chirp" into a "wooharrhhhrrarhrhhrrraaarrrhhhhrrr"
Remove 4 bolts, remove mount...I suggest replacing it with the Energy suspension polyurethane trans mount. It will last a lot longer and comes with all of the correct hardware. Installation is reverse of removal.
P.S. If you wanna fix that "chirp" you hear when shifting 2nd gear I can help you find a nice 455! It'll turn your "chirp" into a "wooharrhhhrrarhrhhrrraaarrrhhhhrrr"
I'm actually on my way to the Ontario meet right now.
I have a question, when I look underneath, all I see is two bolts under the transmission crossmember?? Do you have a link to that kit? Maybe amazon.com has it?
#34
Hello Gentlemen,
So, i know i'm bringing back an old thread, but i thought i'd mention my progress.
Last night i replaced the motor mounts (P/N 2261) from Anchor, they fit PERFECTLY. literally slid it when i had the engine jacked up from the oil pan.
I've replaced and pressed in new CV joints in my driveshaft.
My car STILL makes a light "klunk" from first to second, unless i'm really heavy on the gas, then it shifts smoother. But, i notice the klunk ALOT less since i changed the motor mounts.
From second to third, she shifts almost perfectly.
Could this be attributed to a shift kit the previous owner installed "Hurst stage I" or something of the sort.
So, i know i'm bringing back an old thread, but i thought i'd mention my progress.
Last night i replaced the motor mounts (P/N 2261) from Anchor, they fit PERFECTLY. literally slid it when i had the engine jacked up from the oil pan.
I've replaced and pressed in new CV joints in my driveshaft.
My car STILL makes a light "klunk" from first to second, unless i'm really heavy on the gas, then it shifts smoother. But, i notice the klunk ALOT less since i changed the motor mounts.
From second to third, she shifts almost perfectly.
Could this be attributed to a shift kit the previous owner installed "Hurst stage I" or something of the sort.
Last edited by Tony72Cutlass'S'; September 26th, 2013 at 07:10 AM.
#36
Only problem is... i think i might have to move the crossmemeber to get at it... does that make sence?
WHen i jacked up the rear of the transmission, i could barely fit my hand in there
I also ordered one of these modulatiors. I figured maybe it would help?
Last edited by Tony72Cutlass'S'; September 26th, 2013 at 08:48 AM.
#37
The modulator adjust the 1 to 2 shift if I remember right it just times it earlier or later. I car used to shift at 15 mph roughly from1 to 2 then I got the stall converter and I had to move the shift point higher.
#39
I'm getting a new fram modulator in the mail next week, i wonder how they're preset from the factory.