A72CUTLAS

Hello peeps. I've been surfing the tranny section reading up on swapping a th350 for an OD, whether 700 or 200R4. It seems the 200 is the easiest and most popular to do due to basic plug-n-play RE: driveshaft/crossmember, but most of the posts seem to be from those of us with a BBO or a hopped-up 350.

What I'm running is a stock 350 with 4bbl Qjet, RPM intake, headers, and what I believe to be stock gears. Do I need to worry about getting a buffed-up version of the 200 or will a stock one do?
TIA for the advice.

Fakser

Since most of the buffed up trannies from places like monster and tci are rated for over 400HP a stock will do fine for your engine. The 200-r4 seems to have real good results from everything I've read I havent had one yet but one of the common themes I read is to get a cooler for it to add durabilty. A 700 just seems like too much of a hassle unless your trying to get a very specific ratio. There are other thins to take into consideration like rear end ratio, tire size etc. If you have 3.23 in the rear end or lower you may not even want to go with the OD, but it's all personal preference. Let me know what you go with and how it turns out

Aceshigh

Disclaimer: I'm not the trans expert, just sharing what I've learned.

There's only a FEW aftermarket transmission places I'd point you to that don't lie about what their
transmissions can handle. Some like the guys from Hudson Florida on Ebay claim 700hp figures just
to sell them. They lied right on the phone to me within 2 separate 5 minute phone calls.

CK performance, Bowtie Overdrives, Monster seems okay.
PATC uses 13 vane pumps which every big builder I've talked to said "no no".
Not a disqualifier though, just based on what I was told it's not desirable.

The 200-4R with the BOP bolt pattern is better then trying to mate a Chevy bell housing 700-R4 to an
Olds motor. Not to mention, the 200-4R can be built up to handle much more power if you decide to upgrade later.

The only real performance car (IMO) that came out of the 80's was the Buick Grand National and the
late 80's turbo trans am. Both used the 200-4R. The 442's of that era were weak.

Depends on what car the 200-4R came out of if it's going to be a stock rebuild or salvage pull.

A 200-4R from a Turbo Regal, Monte Carlo SS, or Grand National is better then one out of a 307ci powered Olds.
Better stock servo, Governor, Valve bodies, etc. But ANY core can be built up with premium parts to be comparable.

If you're going to buy one from a Vendor, you really need to know your torque figures.
I'd suggest doing a rear chassis dyno pull. Torque is what kills the transmission, not HP.

That's why vendors advertise in HP.....yes, confusing.
I'm building a 800hp /tq capable 200-4R for my Rocket 350 which has ~425ft lbs at the crank.
Overkill, but that's why I want it......room for growth and trouble free usage.

If you have less then 350 ft lbs, you can probably get away with this one. But I'd go with a stage II or a CK performance trans.
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata....php?ITEMID=11

rustyroger

I understood the 200r4 had dual bolt patterns, that is it will bolt up to both BOP and Chevy blocks. Is this correct?.

Aceshigh

Yes, that is correct. I can't recall if 100% of them had all the bolt holes thou.

Here's the holes you're looking for. Primarily the one's in Blue at the top signify it will work.
Looks like 2 horns sticking up from the bell housing from behind it.

68conv455

I went with a CK performance trans. I am happy with it.

Rickman48

Having had both behind a slightly modified 'corporate' chev LG4 305 in a Pontiac GP 2+2 with a 3:08 rear, I favor the 700r4.
Although a little more work and money to install in an Olds, I feel the 1st gear will make a difference with rear ratios beow 3:23 - more grunt off the line.
I coud definatly fee the difference behind the 'lowly' 305!
Since yards know what they have, you'll pay more for a good 200, add the mods needed for torque and longevity, and you're way over the price for a modified 700 and the adapter, including the cost of shortening the driveshaft.
Since the 700 came behind many BB trucks, they're stronger from the get-go, much more plentiful, cheaper, and IMO, better suited for 'tall' gears.

Aceshigh

700'R4's do have a great 1st gear......it's cool for launching from a dig.
But the 1st to 2nd ratio is a huuuuuuge gap......so you get a big dump in RPM's there.

Around here , that's true.
Yards were wanting $200-$250 for a 200-R4 without knowing if it worked.
That was just ANY random core. That's why you source from people instead.

I got my 200-4R core in mint condition for $50 just a few weeks ago from a Chicago racing member.
Found a couple turbo buick BQ core 200-4R's for $100-$150

I don't know about all that.....
For a built 700-R4 + adaptor what are you thinking the investment is ??

I've had a Stage II 700R4 I bought in 2003 from CK performance for $1800. (Sold it in 2006)
Oddly enough 8 years later it's STILL listed for that same price.
Presently I'm building a MUCH stronger 200-4R for just under $1000, using all CK's components.

If you just upgrade the stator and sunshell, with all new seals and bearings you're
only looking at $450 plus a CK or Super Servo for another $115-$130. Add in your core cost.
That would probably be good enough for his application. If you get a BRF core, you don't need the servo upgrade.

Now if you're buying either unit built, it's going to be cheaper and easier with the 200-4R.

joe_padavano

Some early 200-4R cases were BOP-only, like this one.

Aceshigh

Yep, there's 3 kinds. Couldn't remember but I found the link I was looking for.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post259346

A72CUTLAS

Thanks to all for all the information. I like the Bowtie 200-4r Aces linked to. Are any of you familiar with extreme automatics? According to their site, their stage 1 beats most other builders stage 2-3. They even have side-by-side comparisons between alot of other companies and theirs. You can see it here: http://extremeautomatics.com/eavscomp/th2004r.html Is this just hype or is their tranny that much better?

This car has been my attempt to learn the art of working on/with cars, and other than having to have the machine shop hang my headers after I broke 2 bolts in the head, and the muffler shop with the exhaust, I've done the work myself. Would it be a good idea to attempt this? Or are there enough pitfalls that using a professional would be best?

Once again I appreciate this forum and all the guys(and gals?) willing to share their knowledge. You guys are cool!

Aceshigh

Never heard of them, and their site doesn't look all that.
But then again, they're wrench crankers.......

Their Q & A section is very helpful it seems. Go along with what I was saying above......200-4R > 700R-4
Before buying from them I'd ask around the GN or Turbo Buick site to get feedback.
Their Stage 3 looks insane.....but so is the price.

oldsatheart

Okay well lets say you didnt read this forum before going ahead and installing a 700r4 and having the drive shaft shortened. I have the 200 4r mated to the 307 it had 155k on it. My buddy gave me the 700 r for free and said it worked fine. So i think when i was using the adpapter plate on it I messed something up because there is a really loud grinding noise comming from that area. I will dig deeper this weekend, but worse comes to worse is it possible to re lengthen the shaft and put the other tranny back in?

joe_padavano

Is it possible to cut a piece of pipe too short and then to lengthen it?

citcapp

snicker, snicker, snicker. Joe, you use a pipe stretcher of course

85cutlass6.6

The 200-4R with the BOP bolt pattern is better then trying to mate a Chevy bell housing 700-R4 to an
Olds motor. Not to mention, the 200-4R can be built up to handle much more power if you decide to upgrade later.

The only real performance car (IMO) that came out of the 80's was the Buick Grand National and the
late 80's turbo trans am. Both used the 200-4R. The 442's of that era were weak.



Depends on what car the 200-4R came out of if it's going to be a stock rebuild or salvage pull.

A 200-4R from a Turbo Regal, Monte Carlo SS, or Grand National is better then one out of a 307ci powered Olds.
Better stock servo, Governor, Valve bodies, etc. But ANY core can be built up with premium parts to be comparable.

If you're going to buy one from a Vendor, you really need to know your torque figures.
I'd suggest doing a rear chassis dyno pull. Torque is what kills the transmission, not HP.

That's why vendors advertise in HP.....yes, confusing.
I'm building a 800hp /tq capable 200-4R for my Rocket 350 which has ~425ft lbs at the crank.
Overkill, but that's why I want it......room for growth and trouble free usage.

If you have less then 350 ft lbs, you can probably get away with this one. But I'd go with a stage II or a CK performance trans.
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/cata....php?ITEMID=11[/QUOTE]

85cutlass6.6

I put a tranny from a gbody 442 into my gbody cutlass, is this anything of a performance tranny and will it stand up to a 403

Aceshigh

No, it is not. Gbody 442's had only
83-85= 180hp / 245ft lbs
86-87= 170hp / 255ft lbs.

4th paragraph down will tell you the GM codes for the 200-4R between the 2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_442#1985-1987

If it's stock, it should be okay. It only has 185hp / 320ft lbs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#403

540 Olds

I went "round n round" with this question for the past 3-4 years....talked to a lot of tranny places and I know you can build a 200R that will handle the torque to put a 38000 pound car in the mid-high 10's. I looked at all the options; 200R, 700R, 4L80E,etc.. and in the end $$wise, they all came out to about $3500 after you throw in a converter.

So..I ended up with a nice used Gear Vendors OD unit on my 400 turbo. It only has a .22% reduction as compared to the 30% in the other OD tranny's, but I didn't have to do anything else except shorten the drive-shaft (and NO, you do NOT want to cut the shaft too short...ask me how I know that!!!) and I left my converter as is.

I paid $1200 for it, and you can find them if you look around IF you want to go that route. I only have a few miles on it because it was such a hot summer, but it drives nice and takes my 3.73's to a 2.90 when in OD. We did have to bang on the floor a little to get it in, but after it's in, we managed to get the floor tunnel back to where it isn't noticeable. Overall, I like the unit and it works for me. Engages about a half second after flipping the switch, and they will take all the HP/TQ you can dish out.

Just another option. Good luck

Bob

Redog

I've read so many times that a 200r can be built as strong as a 700r, plus in an Olds, no adapter plate needed. Swapping in a 200 in place of a 350, Even better because the 200 is 1/8 inch (I think) longer than a 350, so no driveshaft mods are needed

The GN guys have it down.

The 200 has a lower 1st gear than a 700. Great for launchs at the track.

Not looking at the performance side, OK. Somebody said it perfectly, from a stock 307, the 200 isn't going to be a great tranny to put behind a 350 Olds. The 307 did have 255 ft'lbs of torque, but the 350 has about 100 more (?)

Somebody else said it and it's true. Torque brakes things, not horsepower.

Good swap, but a mild rebuid is still in order. After all, when did the last brand new 200r roll out of the factory? 1990?

Very important, the 200r is going to need a vacuum modular to shift into OD correctly> Don't do that, you WILL burn up the tranny

Redog

I've read so many times that a 200r can be built as strong as a 700r, plus in an Olds, no adapter plate needed. Swapping in a 200 in place of a 350, Even better because the 200 is 1/8 inch (I think) longer than a 350, so no driveshaft mods are needed

The GN guys have it down.

The 200 has a lower 1st gear than a 700. Great for launchs at the track.

Not looking at the performance side, OK. Somebody said it perfectly, from a stock 307, the 200 isn't going to be a great tranny to put behind a 350 Olds. The 307 did have 255 ft'lbs of torque, but the 350 has about 100 more (?)

Somebody else said it and it's true. Torque brakes things, not horsepower.

Good swap, but a mild rebuid is still in order. After all, when did the last brand new 200r roll out of the factory? 1990?

Very important, the 200r is going to need a vacuum modular to shift into OD correctly. Don't do that, you WILL burn up the tranny. The 200 is a computer controlled tranny. The computer only controls the lock-up TC, but if that convertor doesn't lock, the trans will overheat

Aceshigh

200 can be built stronger.

Yep, the GN guys are the reason the 200 succeeded to 1000hp capabilities with Art Carr.
This is also why Chris Kokkanis from CK Performance developed so many parts for it.

(I probably murdered his name)