Macadoo

Hey folks,
A little background: bought the '71 CS a couple of months ago and have been tearing down the motor since. As part of the deal, the dealer promised to fix the front trans seal as it was leaving a trail of fluid when driven. They claimed to do so but when I got it home, it was still leaking. I figured they botched the job. However, the car hasn't run in weeks and I just discovered maybe a shot glass worth of trans fluid on the shop floor (a tarp, actually). The pan maybe? A somewhat young salesman said he tried changing the pan gasket first, before they sent it off for the seal.

Macadoo

Update; the front pan bolts are covered in fluid. BUT, the puddle is a result of dripping from the crossmember just behind the pan. If that helps.

tru-blue 442

Sound like the rear seal may be
the culprit. You can dry that area
where the driveshaft/seal is with
old towels and see if it seeps there
in a few days. Pretty easy to change
that one in the car. I would do both.
If you have your engine out, the front
one is a snap as well.

Macadoo

Thanks tru-blue, I'll try that. Any way to "see" if the front seal was mis-installed while I have the engine out? I'd hate to replace a perfectly good, brand new seal, since I've never done it myself.

tru-blue 442

It should be flush with the housing
and not look buggered up on the
inside seal. If it looks old and feels
a little brittle, out with it!

If I have one down that far, I would
go ahead and take it out of the car,
do both seals, clean the pan, change the
filter and gasket.

You can then check the shape of the trans
mount too. Gotta watch those maws...

oldcutlass

Yup, all you have to do is look for a leak at the front seal when you separate the trans from the engine. You can tighten the pan bolts a little and see if that part dries up.

matt69olds

Other possibilities are a leaking o-ring on the vacuum modulator, and leaking seals for the speedometer cable. Clean everything well, let it run for a while, and crawl under it for a inspection.

tru-blue 442

Hey Eric, reckon that 'young salesman'
may have really done anything or just
really cranked down on the pan bolts
if he did do anything...?

Macadoo should see tell tale signs of
a new gasket if he did replace the set.

oldcutlass

It's possible? They might not have tightened them enough also.

Macadoo

All good stuff. I'll have a look at the exterior again tomorrow. Can't run the engine though, not for a while. I did see fluid on the speedo connection. I'll see if the bolts are loose/easy to turn and for signs of a new gasket. Just a gut feeling but i don't think the dealer was dishonest. Not as sure about their sub-contracted mechanic though. Just out of curiosity, what would he have to do to replace the front seal with the motor in? Wouldn't the drive shaft to trans u-joint need to be disconnected? If so, I'll look for tell-tale signs of that as well.

Lady72nRob71

Check around the shifter-shaft. Mine is leaking there and it runs all around the pan and also drips from the front, looking like the input seal is gone.
Mine also leaks around the speedo connections.
I just bought all the seals at once and will eventually have a nasty party of changing them all. The rubber has simply deteriorated with age.

oldcutlass

In order for the front seal to be changed the trans needed to be separated from the engine.

Macadoo

So far I haven't seen any evidence the trans was separated from the engine. Hard to tell though, I suppose. Guess I'll know once the engine is out.
Rob, how much disassembly is involved with replacing those seals. I'm nice and comfy with an engine but the tranny is a different story.

Lady72nRob71

The shifter shaft seal requires removing the shaft through the pan. I read the procedure and it does not look bad. However one really needs a lift to do it and i do not have one.
The rest do not look difficult at all, you just need room under there.
So all my seals are in a box, still awaiting installation.

Octania

[Lady72nRob71;598786]The shifter shaft seal requires removing the shaft through the pan.
==================
That is ONE way to do it
when I worked at trans R&R, they had a nifty seal extractor, and they NEVER removed that shaft.


However one really needs a lift to do it and i do not have one.
============
What?
No.... shaft seal super easy even if you take the shaft out.
Trans removal [front seal] possible with a jack and good stands.

One common culprit is the o-ring seal on the FILL TUBE.

Look at the last thing "fixed" for problems. What's been disturbed lately?

Lady72nRob71

Never heard of that puller tool. If you can point me to the source of this puller and tell me how to do it, I will give it a shot. Of course I probably need more room than what ramps can give...

Macadoo

Never thought of looking at the dip-stick tube, thanks for the tip. Rear seal looks dry as the proverbial bone, no leak there. Pan bolt needed a little snugging up, but not much. Converter is dry as well.
Speedo cable seal looks mighty suspicious but wouldn't account for the fluid coming off the crossmember. I'll keep drying and watching.
Getting ready to remove the greasy, disgusting starter. Any tips? No real pictures in the chassis manual.

Lady72nRob71

One thing is to take good notes on how the wiring was run. Pictures help if you can take some. Disconnect the battery to avoid fireworks...

oldcutlass

Just remember the purple one goes to the S terminal.

matt69olds

This is tool your looking for.http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...%2bseal%2btool

Kinda pricey for something your going to use once in a great while.

Macadoo

Wrestled with the starter for half an hour after getting the bolts out (took lots of pictures). Looks like I have to get the cross pipe off. Oh well, I have to do it anyway.

Macadoo

Speedometer cable for the win! Looks like an easy fix. Thanks Matt.
And I was completely wrong about it not accounting for fluid dripping off the crossmember. It's just above that area. The connection was pretty loose. I tightened it up and wiped it down with a rag. I'll know by tomorrow if that fixed it.