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Am doing some research on replacement weather stripping for a 77 Toronado. There appears to be 3 major suppliers for this weatherstripping. Steele Rubber, Metro Rubber and SoffSeal Products.
Was wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these brands and what your opinion and experience was or is.
Based on my browsing I am leaning towards Steele Rubber based on web reviews.
They offer the hardtop roof rail weatherstrip, the door weather strip, the trunk seal and the hood to cowl seal.
The only item that I cannot locate are the window felt belt line weather strips. None of the suppliers indicated above list this item. I think they need to be replaced, especially the outer as 40+ years of weather has made the outer rubber seal hard and brittle. Has anyone changed these on their Toronado and if so where did you source them from.
I was looking at the OPGI site and was wondering if the window felt beltline seals from a 2 door Eldorado would work. My thinking is they are the same platform and both are very large 2 door hardtops, so perhaps the door size and attaching method are the same. Here is the link to the OPGI site https://www.opgi.com/eldorado/CE06660/
Anyone have any thoughts or words of wisdom. Better yet does anyone have a door panel removed from a 77 or 78 Toronado and can take some pictures of the inside and outside weatherstrips
Byron, I removed the fuzzy from the drivers door and took several photos. The front is on the left side of the photos. The biggest wildcard I see is there are two sections of what looks like felt covered plastic tubing about 5" long that are on the glass side. You can see the rivets on the side facing the door. There's also a section in the center that's only about 1" wide, for 3" in length. Check the photos and let me know if there's any measurements or close-ups you'd like to see. John
Byron, I removed the fuzzy from the drivers door and took several photos. The front is on the left side of the photos. The biggest wildcard I see is there are two sections of what looks like felt covered plastic tubing about 5" long that are on the glass side. You can see the rivets on the side facing the door. There's also a section in the center that's only about 1" wide, for 3" in length. Check the photos and let me know if there's any measurements or close-ups you'd like to see. John
John, you are amazing! Thank you for all the pictures. I really didn't expect you to spend the whole day doing so, but all your photos, dimensions and commentary are greatly appreciated. Now I just need to spend some time comparing your photos with the belt line seals I have found for Cadillac and Buick and to see if anything matches or is close enough to be easily modified. Thank you again for all your help! If and when I get it figured out I will post it here for future reference by others.
Glad to help out. I'm dismantling the car so I needed to pull the glass anyway. Once that was out it was easy to remove the fuzzy. I hope your able to match it, I've never seen one that has the extra felt covered tubes attached to ride against the glass as it goes up and down. If you need any other photos or measurements let me know.
John
Check out Rubber the Right Way. They offer Steele products (among others) at a discount. They have been great for me and I keep going back . www.RubberTheRightWay.com
Am doing some research on replacement weather stripping for a 77 Toronado. There appears to be 3 major suppliers for this weatherstripping. Steele Rubber, Metro Rubber and SoffSeal Products.
Was wondering if anyone has any experience with any of these brands and what your opinion and experience was or is
Byron, I bought a bunch of rubber for my '67 Delta 88 a few years ago, and I shopped ALL around. To my mind, all three of those suppliers are fine. You'll find that other vendors, like auto parts stores and Rockauto, just resell the products of one of these vendors.
But prices can vary WIDELY, so it paid for me to shop around.
Just some examples;
Door weatherstrips (pair)
Metro Molded: $107.20
Steele: $119.60
Fusick: $89.50 (I believe they just resell Metro Molded items)
Autozone: $94.71 (resells Metro Molded)
Rockauto: $64.79 (resells Metro Molded)
USA Parts Supply: $95.49 (not sure of their supplier)
Carparts.com: $80.44 (resells Metro Molded)
Rubber the Right Way: $97.98 (resells Steele)
From the above, by far, the best price was through Rockauto. It was pretty much HALF the price of Steele. Of the 8 vendors listed above, 5 were selling the same product (Metro Molded's product).
The situation was similar for the trunk lid seal. The lowest price was Rockauto, $11.97 for a Metro Molded part. Metro Molded itself sold the same part number for $23.80, Autozone for $23.79, Rubber the Right Way for $20.24, and carparts.com for $10.55, even cheaper than Rockauto. Steele's product was almost four times the price of Rockauto and carparts.com at $41.00.
I'll also second the endorsement of Rubber the Right Way. I haven't bought a lot from them, but what I have bought has been of fine quality, and I've gotten good service.
Be careful when ordering from Steele Rubber. They list the wrong trunk weatherstripping for the '77 and '78 Toronados. If you go with Steele, order the '76 trunk weatherstripping.
I pointed out the error to the person I placed my order with, but they seemed less than interested in fixing it. It's still wrong today.
With the exception of minor things like reflector or backup light placement, don't the '75 through '78 Toronados have identical rear ends? I would think that these four years all use the same trunk weatherstripping, and I would guess that most or all of the earlier second-generation models ('71 through '74) would as well.
Now that is interesting about Steele Rubber. I got a quote from Rubber the Right Way and for the Door seals they quote part #12-167D for a 71-73 Buick. Now that doesn't seem right to me. I would tend to agree with Jaunty that the trunk seal should be identical for 75-78. Even the door seals should be the same for those years, so why the Buick reference.
Metro part trunk weatherstripping number TK 46-E/18 fits lots of cars, including '71 to '76 Toronados. I have to believe it also fits '77 and '78 and the Metro just doesn't have a complete list of applications. It's only $26, so it's worth getting as you're not out much money if it doesn't work, and it very likely will.
So I finally bit the bullet and ordered up new new door and roof rail seals for the Toronado. Really had to as a big chunk fell out of the corner on the passenger side and when I had the panels off changing the mirror I got a really good look at how dry brittle and cracked the seals were. I ordered the Metro Seals based on earlier recommendations and got them from "Never Enough Auto Accessories" out of Michigan. They had a very competitive price and the best deal on shipping thru the eBay Global Shipping Program and they shipped pretty darn quick.
I have watched a ton of You Tube videos on the the process of installing the seals and it seems pretty straightforward but I suspect something, somewhere, somehow will come up to complicate things. Has anyone done these seals before and have words of wisdom or advice to offer.
Also still looking for the belt line seals with the help of the pictures provided by John. They seem to be as rare as hen's teeth. But will keep looking. It may end up being a matter of adapting something to do the job. The inside belt seal shouldn't be a major issue as it appears to be attached to the upper inner door panel. The big challenge will be to get the outer belt line seal off, a replacement installed and then re-attaching to the door.
Based on my observations when I had the panel off the other day it appeared that the outer belt line seal is riveted/screwed to the chrome trim moulding on the top of the door. How you get to that without removing the window is the big question.
While I've not done it to my Toronado, I have replaced weatherstripping on cars. It is not that bad. Make sure you clean all the old stuff out. Make sure you have a good supply of adhesive. Then just start at one and put it in. You might want to dry fit it first to make sure it fits all the way around and that you know where all the tabs push into the holes.
Today I started the installation of my new roof rail weatherstrip seals on my 77 Toronado. I started on the passenger door because a big chunk fell out of the top rear corner the other day and water from rain and car washing was getting inside. Talk about a PITA. The old seal was glued with a massive amount of glue and as a result it came out in pieces and took hours of scraping and almost an entire can of 3M adhesive remover to clean the gunk left in the channels, The grooves in the channel that the weatherstrip is supposed to lock into was also loaded with glue and rubber and is putting up a major fight to get it all out so I get a good seat for the new seal.
The channels that the weatherstrip seats into look to be stainless and are screwed in. I removed the screws thinking that I could just drop the channels out and it would be easier to clean them off the car. You have to very careful with the 3M adhesive remover because it removes paint (ask me how I know). But no such luck. It appears that these channels also have adhesive bonding them to the body and the screws are really redundant. I decided not to risk trying to pry the channels off and probably bending them and then having to deal with how to properly re-adhere them.
Tomorrow's task will be to take my little Dremel with a wire wheel and grind the glue/rubber out the grooves in the channel that the the new seal has to fit into.
I also did a dry test fit and for the most part the seal fit but left me wondering about the wisdom of the directions that were supplied and that I found on the internet.
1. Almost all the seal makers suggest starting at the front of the vehicle seal and working your way to the back. The problem with that is that when you get to the back corner you have a major problem getting it to line up properly, Same thing happens if you start at the back and work to the front.
It seems to me the best way is to start at the top rear corner - which is a 90 degree and then once that is properly seated and glued work your way forward and finish with the vertical at the rear. Does this make sense or am I overlooking something critical?
2. Some instructions say just to put the 3M adhesive in the channel and apply (Metro) and some say put adhesive on both the channel and the seal and let them get tacky the apply (Steele). The benefit to the Metro approach is you have time to position and seat the seal but the downside is it then has to be held for a while to seal. The benefit to the Steele approach is instant bond but the downside is no time for positioning, you have to get it right the first time. In either case they suggest just doing a small area at a time.
So the question is what is the best method to use?
3. I have also noticed that some sites recommend sanding or cleaning the seals to remove any mold release to aid with adhesive properly bonding.
So the question is rather than sanding with say a scotch brite pad, would wiping with isopropyl alcohol do the same job?
As always appreciate any advice or insight that anyone can provide.
1. I don't recall thinking a lot about which end to start. Just started at one end and went to the other. I'm a little concerned to hear you say that the rubber won't line up at the other end no matter which end you start on. It seems that that shouldn't happen. Is there any way to dry fit the weatherstripping from one end to another first? Sort of pre-form it into fitting properly?
2. I seem to recall doing it the second way. Put adhesive on both the channel and the rubber, let them get a little tacky, and then press together.
3. I've seen that suggestion about sanding, and I would give the rubber a quick rub with sandpaper more to roughen the surface for better adhesion than anything else.
Good evening Jaunty. Happy Memorial Day.
I did do a dry fit and for the most part it is off by maybe 1/2 inch. The major cause of the problem appears to be getting the back corner properly seated. I started at the rear pins and when I got to the front I was about 1/2 inch long versus the front pin holes. When I started at the front it was tough pulling the seal far enough along to get a good fit in the back corner. This may be as a result of still having some junk in the grooves of the channels and maybe wire wheeling them to clean them some more may make a difference. To me the back corner and the front radius under the glass guide are the 2 most critical areas. So my thinking is to start in the back corner to get it properly seated and then work to the front radius. The front pillar and rear vertical would be the next steps. If I am then short or long a little on the pins it should not be a big deal, I don't think. Worst case is I have to drill some new holes for the pins but really the glue on the ends will hold them in place well enough.
My main concern is the top and rear corner seal. Does this make sense to you?
I would expect to need to do some stretching or crunching to get the rubber to fit properly here and there. It's hard to say more without seeing the situation.
I got the passenger side roof rail installed but I am not a happy camper. There were/are a number of problems and complaints to overcome.
First off I am not happy with the Metro seals. The rear corner is molded separately and then fused to the horizontal top seal and the rear vertical. Also it is way thicker than the original equipment and is a real bear to get seated in the upper rear corner and if you don't everything else is thrown out of whack. I did dry fits starting at the front and then at the rear and both caused issues when it came to the corner and getting pins to line up.
To make sure I had the grooves in the channels properly cleaned of all old material I used my Dremel with a little wire wheel and ran it inside all the grooves. It did a great job of cleaning them out but make sure you cover the interior with an old blanket or tarp because it spits pieces of rubber and glue all over the place. Also helps to have a dental mirror and flashlight so you can how clean the groove is or isn't.
Metro's directions say to start at the front and work your way back. For anyone trying this don't waste your time. Start in the corner and then work from there otherwise due to the thickness you will never get it properly installed. Another lesson learned the hard way after removing the seal after the second dry fit, the joint between the corner piece and the rear vertical split open. Not happy about that. Had to patch it back together with the 3M adhesive.
I also did the Steele recommendation of gluing both the channel and the weatherstrip let it tack and then apply. Dang you have work fast because once they hit you are done. It made marks every 10 inches or so and only glued portions at a time. That helped make it manageable.
The Metro suggestion of just putting adhesive in the channel may be the better way to go with their seals as it gives you time to get it seated and to push, pull and poke to get good seat in the channel and position with reference marks from your dry fits which I recommend making to ensure you are crunching or stretching properly.
After all was said and done it looked good but that is all. When I tried closing the window it would not seat properly. With the door closed and operating the window it would not go all the way up and left an opening at the the top. With the door open the window went up fully but when the door was closed it would not seat because it hit the glass guide at the top front (that little plastic piece) and left an opening at the front. Fortunately my old body shop guy says there is some adjustments that he can make to get the glass to seat better. So I am taking the car into him tomorrow to see if he can fix the problem.
My impressions overall is that the Metro seal are not that good and the main problem is the separately molded and fused rear corner which is prone to breaking and the back vertical strip is too thick which throws the glass tracking out of whack. Wish there was someone who does or can make an identical match to the original equipment and which is a soft as the original seal. In fact if I could find original GM seals I would grab them in a minute and rip these out.
Byron, sorry to hear of your problems. Any chance you could show some photos of the problem areas? As detailed as your descriptions are, a few photos would help greatly in conveying the issues.
Will take some photos tomorrow and post them up for you.
I tried Calling Metro 3 times today to talk about the problems but got no answer. Now I understand that they may be closed under their state guidelines but I also called Steele to get some information about their roof rail seals and their Tech fellow who is not allowed in the office under their current distancing guidelines did return my voicemail message within the hour. I asked and he said he would try and get me some closer and better pictures of their seals along with some dimensions so I can determine if they might be a better fit than the Metro seals. It will take a few days as he is only allowed into the office a few times a week due to the distancing requirements.
I got my car back from my body shop buddy today and he managed to make a bad situation tolerable. Before he started he pointed out that all the current aftermarket weatherstrips are all thicker and harder durometer than the original equipment and adjustments are always needed. In my case the major adjustment was to remove the weather strip mounting channels and reposition them. That must have been fun because the channels are not only screwed in but they also have a very aggressive adhesive holding them in position.
The windows now open and close properly with no gaps and based on leaving it out in the rain overnight and today there are no leaks. I can't comment on wind noise because the drive home was not long enough to really test that out
Unfortunately no pictures of the before but do have a number of the finished installation that shows some of the issues.
The first pictures show the seam in the vertical on both the driver and passenger door. Actually the mounting flange is in the groove in the channel on both doors so you can see how much pressure is on that joint and how the seam in front of the flange is being pulled.If the rear seal was thinner, softer and had more of a contour like the OEM seal this probably would not occur.
On the driver side near the top of the door the outer part of the seal had an inward curvature so it would not make proper contact with the glass. So it had to be heated a bit and then a wedgy was stuffed behind it to force it out and into contact with the glass. This wedgy/spacer ended up being about 6 inches long with a taper near the top. took some fancy trimming to get it right. Fortunately once the seal returns to shape and folds over you don't see it, but I know it is there.
On the passenger side the fused corner piece split during my dry run and had to patch it back together with the 3M adhesive. Does not look pretty but is holding up at the moment. These are the Metro Gold Series weatherstrips and come with a 15 year replacement policy if it fails for any reason during that time period. I have called their warranty department a number of times about getting a replacement passenger door seal. All I get is voicemail and never a call back. So much for Metro warranty!!!!!
Finally the door seals. Even with a bunch of pushing and pulling they come up just a touch short and when you do get them tacked, the tension in the seal pulls them loose unless you have the upper door panel installed immediately to help hold them in place.
As I said earlier my experience with Metro seals is not good but tolerable. I hope that one day someone from Metro will either answer the phone or call me back about a warranty replacement for the split passenger seal.
Last edited by ByronF; May 29th, 2020 at 09:39 PM.
Thanks for all the photos and descriptions, Byron. I'm a bit a lucky with my car in the weatherstripping department. They're in pretty good shape overall. Plus, around here, it never rains. They only time they get wet is when I wash the car.
I'm glad that you were able to get your car sealed up, Byron.
The fact that your body man said that things always have to be adjusted gives me hope, too. When I replaced my driver side roof rail strip, the glass wouldn't seal at all. I have tried adjusting it six ways from Sunday. The best I got it is I'll get a tiny bit of seepage if you hit one spot directly with the hose. I chalked up everything being out of whack to the door being rehung with the new pins and bushings. Now I have hope to fine tune it. At least I no longer had the whistle from all of the old rubber.
The not so fun part of adjusting the glass - One of my attempts to fix the glass angle resulted in me breaking the little piece of plastic on the bottom of the glass (I don't have a picture of it). Everything is normal, except for a vibration rattle when driving with the window all the way up. If I barely drop the window, to take pressure off of everything, the rattle stops. I only include this as a warning to others.
77Toro, my body guy (a crusty 35 year veteran running his own shop) tells me that the initial adjustment on these roof rail seals is always the channel that the seals mount in. Then the final tweaking is on the glass because it has very limited adjustment. Finally if you have one little spot, heat with a heat gun to pull and push as necessary then hit with damp cloth to help set and if all else fails a little shim or wedge behind the seal may also help to ensure contact as was necessary on my drivers door.
In light of my earlier comments and in fairness to the folks at Metro Moulded Products I though I should post an update. I was able to get hold of the warranty person at Metro Moulded Products this morning and explained the problem with the passenger side roof rail seal splitting. They asked me to send them via email a copy of my receipt and some photos of the split and they would then process a warranty replacement. I have now done so and look forward to them sending a replacement seal.
Last edited by ByronF; June 1st, 2020 at 11:49 AM.
Just thought I would post an update. Was out for a cruise this morning with my two sweeties, my wife and our little dog Maggie. Little Maggie loves to go cruising and the Toronado seems to be her favorite vehicle to cruise in. Sometimes she even falls asleep in the backseat while we are out cruising.
I am really pleased to say that adding the bushings to the door striker bolts has made a huge improvement to the way the doors close. No more scraping of the latching mechanism on the head of the striker bolt and both doors open and close with very little effort now.
Additionally the new roof rail and door seals have done wonders, despite some of the fitment issues to virtually eliminate the window glass rattling. For the first time in a long time I did not hear any rattling even when I went looking for rough road surfaces to try and induce the rattle. Combined with the repaired mirror, that no longer rattles and stays in position and is actually usable now. So I am basically a happy camper now but am keen on fixing the window belt line seals, both inner and outer. I will start a new thread to show what I am dealing with on the belt line seals and explore the alternatives to fix them.
Just an update. My package arrived from Metro this morning with my new roof rail seals. I am pleased to say that they honored their warranty. They even went to the trouble of marking on the paperwork not to charge any customs fees as this was a warranty replacement. Based on the professional manner in which they handled my warranty issue, I would now recommend Metro if you need new seals.
January 21st, 2019, 03:49 PM
. www.RubberTheRightWay.com
