Disappointing weekend working on the Toros
October 20th, 2014, 08:47 AM
#1
1992 Toronado Trofeo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Disappointing weekend working on the Toros
So this past weekend. I finally was able to get into both Toros to make the best of the two. Two car bays and two cars. Let the fun begin!
First I started with engine compression tests. On Rusty, I found that the average compression was about 155 per cylinder. On Marilyn, the average compression was about 170.
Marilyn has a transmission that whines with brown transmission fluid. Rusty has a quiet transmission with nice red transmission fluid.
Rusty is named appropriately. There are rust holes in both quarter panels. There is also bubbling surface rust on the hood and trunk. I was hoping to swap transmissions and then trade Rusty to a family I know as their 15 year old turns 16 in November. Everyone wrecks their first car and Rusty is perfect for someone’s first car. There is a possibility that I could be wrong.
The time estimated to pull the tranny out shows 8 hours. The guy working with me worked for GM dealerships for about 15 years, has his own garage now, and has learned the tricks to get stuff like this out quicker, and is showing me how to do all this. Well, this job has taken about 11 hours to get the tranny out. Rusty is appropriately named. There is soo much rust on the undercarriage, it took two cans of PB Blaster to get the cradle out. I cannot appropriately describe the amount of rust that fell from this car. The cradle bushings were not only split, they had no metal to grip to. Some of the cradle bolts were pencil thin. Once the cradle dropped out, the inspection showed that every hole has been eaten through and it’s a small wonder this thing stayed in the car. The rust has not quite spread to the frame itself, so if we can find a cradle for a reasonable price, Rusty may still have a little life left on the road. If not, Rusty is going to have to go to the junkyard. I don’t like the thought of it going there but there is no way that cradle can go back in.
Marilyn on the other hand has been a pure joy to work on. No rust and most bolts have come out with no problems. Where a procedure may have taken 15 minutes on Rusty, it took maybe 2 or 3 on Marilyn. I am about 5 bolts away from dropping the cradle out of Marilyn and stopped for the day. Once the disaster of a cradle dropped out of Rusty, I pretty much decided I was done.
Soooo that’s where we are at. Very disappointed on how the weekend came about. I am going to spend the next two days looking for a cradle and hope to find one.
First I started with engine compression tests. On Rusty, I found that the average compression was about 155 per cylinder. On Marilyn, the average compression was about 170.
Marilyn has a transmission that whines with brown transmission fluid. Rusty has a quiet transmission with nice red transmission fluid.
Rusty is named appropriately. There are rust holes in both quarter panels. There is also bubbling surface rust on the hood and trunk. I was hoping to swap transmissions and then trade Rusty to a family I know as their 15 year old turns 16 in November. Everyone wrecks their first car and Rusty is perfect for someone’s first car. There is a possibility that I could be wrong.
The time estimated to pull the tranny out shows 8 hours. The guy working with me worked for GM dealerships for about 15 years, has his own garage now, and has learned the tricks to get stuff like this out quicker, and is showing me how to do all this. Well, this job has taken about 11 hours to get the tranny out. Rusty is appropriately named. There is soo much rust on the undercarriage, it took two cans of PB Blaster to get the cradle out. I cannot appropriately describe the amount of rust that fell from this car. The cradle bushings were not only split, they had no metal to grip to. Some of the cradle bolts were pencil thin. Once the cradle dropped out, the inspection showed that every hole has been eaten through and it’s a small wonder this thing stayed in the car. The rust has not quite spread to the frame itself, so if we can find a cradle for a reasonable price, Rusty may still have a little life left on the road. If not, Rusty is going to have to go to the junkyard. I don’t like the thought of it going there but there is no way that cradle can go back in.
Marilyn on the other hand has been a pure joy to work on. No rust and most bolts have come out with no problems. Where a procedure may have taken 15 minutes on Rusty, it took maybe 2 or 3 on Marilyn. I am about 5 bolts away from dropping the cradle out of Marilyn and stopped for the day. Once the disaster of a cradle dropped out of Rusty, I pretty much decided I was done.
Soooo that’s where we are at. Very disappointed on how the weekend came about. I am going to spend the next two days looking for a cradle and hope to find one.
October 22nd, 2014, 07:57 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 188
WoW, that definitely looks serious. I would imagine finding a front end in sub-frame from a fourth generation Toronado is going to be pretty hard to find. I wonder how different the Rivera and Eldorado front end sub-frames are...
October 26th, 2014, 09:53 AM
#4
1992 Toronado Trofeo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
October 27th, 2014, 03:27 PM
#6
Olds Fever
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York (Upstate)
Posts: 4,441
I found the original GM part number for the cradle and discovered that only the 92 Toro, 92 Riv, and 93 Riv share the same cradle. I have looked all around town and there is only ONE 92 Riv available to me at Pull-a-Part. They wont pull it for me and I am a little nervous going in there without the proper safety protocols in place to pull a cradle like that. They dont allow jacks or any air tools. While its possible to do, it can be a real bear. I already bent an extension trying to break loose a cradle bolt. I was using a cheater pipe just to test things. Not a good idea...
You are correct, according to GM the frame (cradle) is only for the 92 by part number application..... However, if you were able to put a pre 92 frame next to your 92 frame you would be able to tell if the differences are significant enough that would inhibit you from not being able to use it, even if you had to swap out some of the pre 92 steering and suspension parts.... I presently have two 92 Trofeos and I also saved all of the front and rear suspension parts from a 90 Trofeo parts car that I acquired.... I never gave it a thought that it would be different, but now that you have raised the issue, at some point I will have to verify that the 90 and 92 can in fact be interchanged or not..... If I had a loose 92 frame I most likely would have compared the two by now, but for now both of my 92 Trofeos are complete and running.... Like to know how you make out.....
October 29th, 2014, 05:01 PM
#7
1992 Toronado Trofeo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Update on the twin Toros:
So after much thought and discussion, we have decided to scrap/part out Rusty. There is too much rust under the body and in soo many other places that it makes no sense on trying to fix all of it- just to turn around and sell it. Its bad enough that when I looked at the rear brakes, there is no way that I would have wanted to try to take any of it apart. Think barnacles on the bottom of a boat. Thats what it looks like.
October 29th, 2014, 05:42 PM
#8
1992 Toronado Trofeo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 63
Tons of work done on Marilyn in the past 4 days-
The good transmission was installed and right before the cradle was put back, I decided to take a close look at the front motor mount. Am I glad that I did... When I got it out, here is what it looked like:
So, like most Toro owners already know, this is the motor mount that is impossible to find. I found one new in Italy for almost $400 and there is the ONE mount on ebay for $250. Neither option was very appealing to me. Online research found that Anchor mount #2836 is MOSTLY the right motor mount. This mount fits the 1992 & 1993 Seville, the 1992 & 1993 Eldorado, and the 1994 & 1995 Deville.
If you can imagine the face of a clock, the bottom studs of the Toro mount were at 1:00 & 7:00 and the bottom studs of the Caddy mount were at 11:00 and 5:00. Luckily, everything else was the same and the cradle had room to add one hole. Time to drill. Here are the pictures of the final result:
As you look closely at the marks on the cradle, you can see where the original mount was. The second hole was already there from the factory so only one needed to be drilled and the integrity of the cradle is not compromised.
After a couple of hours of work this am, the transmission project was finished. Next up, brakes...
This has been the easiest of all the work up to this point. Rusty had new calipers, pads, and rotors installed recently. Marilyn had new brake lines installed but the rotors were original from the factory with some grooves worn in. This was a no brainer and took less than an hour to swap out.
When under Marilyn to start the transmission swap, it was painfully obvious that the valve covers and the intake manifold were leaking and had not been redone since the factory. Lots of caked oil, dirt, and anti-freeze on the block/underside. Four hours of work later and poof:
I must say that even though the seals & gaskets were cruddy, that interior compartment is very clean. This 3800 is one solid engine. Tomorrow, I am cleaning the intake manifold itself to reinstall it. It may get sealed on Friday, depending on how long cleaning takes tomorrow.
By the way, removing the tensioner to get the intake manifold loose- PAIN IN THE ***!!!!
The good transmission was installed and right before the cradle was put back, I decided to take a close look at the front motor mount. Am I glad that I did... When I got it out, here is what it looked like:
So, like most Toro owners already know, this is the motor mount that is impossible to find. I found one new in Italy for almost $400 and there is the ONE mount on ebay for $250. Neither option was very appealing to me. Online research found that Anchor mount #2836 is MOSTLY the right motor mount. This mount fits the 1992 & 1993 Seville, the 1992 & 1993 Eldorado, and the 1994 & 1995 Deville.
If you can imagine the face of a clock, the bottom studs of the Toro mount were at 1:00 & 7:00 and the bottom studs of the Caddy mount were at 11:00 and 5:00. Luckily, everything else was the same and the cradle had room to add one hole. Time to drill. Here are the pictures of the final result:
As you look closely at the marks on the cradle, you can see where the original mount was. The second hole was already there from the factory so only one needed to be drilled and the integrity of the cradle is not compromised.
After a couple of hours of work this am, the transmission project was finished. Next up, brakes...
This has been the easiest of all the work up to this point. Rusty had new calipers, pads, and rotors installed recently. Marilyn had new brake lines installed but the rotors were original from the factory with some grooves worn in. This was a no brainer and took less than an hour to swap out.
When under Marilyn to start the transmission swap, it was painfully obvious that the valve covers and the intake manifold were leaking and had not been redone since the factory. Lots of caked oil, dirt, and anti-freeze on the block/underside. Four hours of work later and poof:
I must say that even though the seals & gaskets were cruddy, that interior compartment is very clean. This 3800 is one solid engine. Tomorrow, I am cleaning the intake manifold itself to reinstall it. It may get sealed on Friday, depending on how long cleaning takes tomorrow.
By the way, removing the tensioner to get the intake manifold loose- PAIN IN THE ***!!!!
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