AlanT

So my orig 72 Q-jet drains down at night and even after sitting for a short spell.
The P.O. put an elec. pump at the tank with a switch under dash and that helps with starting.
I get hesitation and a raw fuel smell.

Not happy with pedal to power feel. (its just not right)
Now mind you my only point of reference these days is my 01 drive by wire Volvo XC70 but there's just something I cant get my head around.

NO ping with reg gas and upshifts like a dream!

Basically looking for the best sensible route at this point.

I'm curious about edelbrock cause they look so nice and shinny.

I want to do a "drop in" and not interested in messing with intake, linkage, etc.

30 years ago I would have thought nothing of a kitchen table rebuilt but my life is way to complicated to even think about that!
Besides one of my cats would run off with one of the small parts as soon as I turn my back LOL!

Any and all advise will be greeted with baskets of joy

ADT
Belen NM

Olds64

Alan, have you serviced your fuel tank? There are a number of recent posts where folks have fuel leaks caused by deteriorated hoses between the fuel lines and the tank. Plus, the lines at your tank might be rotted causing you to suck air into the lines. It shouldn't cost too much to replace the hoses at your fuel tank. I would double check this before buying a new carburetor.

Tedd Thompson

Some where on this forum someone was having the same problem and fixed it by putting a check valve in the gas line above the fuel pump.Seems gas was back draining through the fuel pump and it would take a while before the gas would fill the carburetor on start up. What gas was left in the carburetor was evaporating over nite.

You might give it a try but the good fix would be to replace the fuel pump if that is the case.

Also as mentioned by Olds64 there could be a leak somewhere from the fuel pump back, you might want to get your car up on a lift and give it a good look over..... Just my thoughts...Tedd

Octania

So my orig 72 Q-jet drains down at night and even after sitting for a short spell.
============
well plugs, common issue I hear. '



Not happy with pedal to power feel. (its just not right)
NO ping with reg gas and upshifts like a dream!
==============
advance the timing and see what happens.




Basically looking for the best sensible route at this point.
I'm curious about edelbrock cause they look so nice and shinny.
===============
That'll last about a year. Then they look like oxidized aluminum coated in white powder.


I want to do a "drop in" and not interested in messing with intake, linkage, etc.
Any and all advise will be greeted with baskets of joy
=================
If you want MINIMAL hassle and factory correct stuff that fits right and works right, use a factory carb. I have a guy who has DOZENS of them for Toronado's, rebuilt long ago, might not have the alcohol compatible acc. pump, but otherwise a great choice. I have sold dozens of them. PM if interested. Looking at $300 delivered in the USA48.

waterzap

I second looking at the fuel lines first. It made a night and day difference on my Eldorado. New fuel hoses, maybe new fuel pump, then look at the other stuff. Hoses and pump wont be more than $40
The plugs under the carbs have about a 100% failure rate I believe. In later years they fixed it, but the earlier ones have issues. But do try the fuel hoses first. Just did the hoses on my 67, and though it was not expensive, took me a while. The hoses run through the frame. So get some wire and tie it to the hoses before you pull them out. Getting wire through the frame once the hoses are out is a pain. Had to struggle with hangars.

AlanT

the PO was pretty on top of the hoses and had the float in tank replaced not to long bfr i bought it meaning all the hoses I see back there are new. I DID have a leak at the fuel pump return line and fixed that weeks ago.

AlanT

I thought about a check valve and after driving it for a month and the fact that it runs great on reg gas with no ping I dont wish to even touch the timing. it DOES have an upgraded dizzy. when the car is warm and has only sat for say a 1/2 hour it starts with a touch of the starter and that JUST tickles me so I think a carb swap is best all things considered.
The fuel smell is for sure coming from the carb. sometimes, i start and pull out and it DIES! giter going again and all is fine. Dreaming of a N.O.S. on ebay LOL but then i guess i would stress over non ethanol proof rubber bits! fun fun fun

MarkDavid

any old car should have ALL ,especially rubber , vacuum and fuel lines checked , and replaced . Put a new oem replacement manual fuel pump on the engine , have the original carburetor rebuilt( so as to not have any issues with linkage/fuel line /vacuum ports hook-ups) by a local rebuilder ( there are several around here in OKC . One in particular that only charges 165.00 to build one and i have had very good success from him ) You may still call it `an original ` as well then . Start putting all the new fangled , shiny bs stuff on it and you will NOT be happy .

nsnarsk65cutlass

The edelbrock will not be a direct fit,linkage is different, square vs spreadbore you will need an adapter,fuel inlet is different.Yes the primary jet main well plugs may leak ,it's alot easier to fix what you have rather than modifying.Also any rubber hoses need to be looked at they may not leak externally but can pull in air.

BILL DEMMER

did the factory use a check valve? no... find the real problem.

i would start at the lines too.

the qj's with the well plug issue were '65-'67, after they switched to the spun-in plugs, that problem went away for about 90% of qj's... now, time is catching-up to them. fix them right, and you'll fix them once.


bill

AlanT

Got a carb from rock auto. It was NOT going to fit till I bent off part of the linkage that was hitting the intake! I could have returned it but I only have one day a week to tinker and it was going on the car come hell or hi water LOL! The old one was missing the filter and during the process, I realized that filter is also an anti backflow valve! Am very happy w the new carb. Starts like a champ and runs real nice! Also there's no place to connect the cruise but I'm already dreaming up a way to do that!

BILL DEMMER

gotta love those refurbed frankencarbs...


bill

AlanT

a Canadian special

AlanT

Sooo my frankencarb let me down two days ago! It was running REALLY rich at start up and only ONCE after install did it really start properly! So I dug into it last week and noticed the choke was dialed up to way over MAX. I backed it down to were I though it should be on a cool NOT cold day. Now its REALLY hard to start when cold, I have NO excel pump at all and in my mind the suction from the REALLY tight choke was priming it!
I've sent off a nasty gram to the "ROCK" and while I wait for a reply I wonder If I should just buckle down and rebuild the old one!

Happy New Year to ALL YA'ALL

z11375ss

This^ Good luck. the factory did a great job getting these cars running perfectly. You can too.

droldsmorland

Alan it sounds to me like the typical Q-Jet metering rod well plug leak. Heres step one...When the car sits for the required length of time for the problem to occur look down the carb and actuate the throttle. You should see nice strong shots of gas from the squirters. (dont try to start the car before this test) If you do not see gas, the carb is draining out when it sits. Even if the fuel line siphoned down which is doubtful the carb should have enough fuel in the bowl to start the engine and provide several strong fuel pump shots during cranking. This is a good time to see if the choke is working properly too. As advised replace all the soft lines in the fuel and any other system. 45 year old rubber is a problem waiting to happen. Cant hurt to drop the tank and clean it and the fuel lines either. The carb could be repaired. You could also put it on a shelf and order an exact replacement from several well known Q-Jet vendors. Yesterdays carbs need to be updated to run well with todays sheet gas. You will think your driving a new car with a new or properly rebuilt and most importantly "tuned" carb.

AlanT

O got it from rock auto two months ago. I have never seen ANY squirts!
I swear the very tight choke was priming it. I just got a response from rock and it seems they want to make it right.
In the beginning it was not the right fit cause the linkage was hitting the intake and I bent of that piece for clearance and they know that.
So the fact that they are reaching out...makes me very happy!

When I installed it, it looked like the filter was also an anti back flow with a spring but the puppy is DEF empty when It sits for 5 to 8 hours.

Octania

Let's recap & fracture some huevos:

Not happy with pedal to power feel. (its just not right)
sometimes, I start and pull out and it DIES! Git her going again and all is fine.
runs great on reg gas with no ping I don't wish to even touch the timing. it DOES have an upgraded dizzy.
====================
So, it ran great, but not right.
Doesn't ping, but does not respond properly to the throttle, but let's not perform the basic tuning step of adjusting the timing for best performance. Stalls for no apparent reason, but "runs great." What, pray tell, does "upgraded" mean to your distributor? Changed to HEI but not with an advance curve proper for your engine? Vacuum advance hooked to nothing, or to ported vacuum which is great for emissions but not so great for throttle response?


I'm curious about Edelbrock carbs 'cause they look so nice and shiny. [but]
I want to do a "drop in" and not interested in messing with intake, linkage, etc.
===================
to which was replied:
"Start putting all the newfangled , shiny stuff on it and you will NOT be happy...
Have the original carburetor rebuilt (so as to not have any issues with linkage/fuel line /vacuum ports hook-ups) by a local rebuilder..."
+++
"If you want MINIMAL hassle and factory correct stuff that fits right and works right, use a factory carb. I have... DOZENS of them for Toronado's... $300 delivered in the USA48." And, if cost is a major factor, I may be able to work on that a bit. I don't recall ever getting that call. For similar money I provide exact right number carbs with the proper linkage arm, and usually in near-NOS condition. Some bolt witness marks, maybe not as pretty gold surface as it once had. I have photos of typical examples.


[buys frankencarb for oh around $250 delivered]
RockAuto.com:
1972 OLDSMOBILE TORONADO 7.5L 455cid V8 : Fuel/Air : Carburetor
AUTOLINE Part # C9204 {#R44MC} Rochester 4 Barrel; Reman
Engine VIN W; R4-4MC
Price Core Total
$204.79 $15.00 $219.79

Got a carb from rock auto. It was NOT going to fit till I bent off part of the linkage that was hitting the intake!
there's no place to connect the cruise
=============
Already the Ain't Fit Right Blues begin.... Not a Toro throttle arm. Probably not returnable now. I guess you could assert that they sold you one that could not be used on a Toro. But then you mangled it. I can't help but think this is where you would have been way ahead to get a carb from me. I can take the time to ensure that your throttle arm is the same, etc. Of course rebuilding your exact original carb is best, provided it's not done semi-rectal. That way you get the new type blue accelerator pump compatible with today's fuel, etc.


The old one was missing the filter
=============
Any chance that "no filter" might have let crud into the old carb, leading to some of the problems?


my frankencarb let me down two days ago!
Now its REALLY hard to start when cold, I have NO accelerator pump at all
It was running REALLY rich at start up and only ONCE after install did it really start properly!
=============
Not better!
Improving on the balanced package that the factory engineers developed turns out to be not just a matter of changing to other random parts, eh? Do you have your original carb and distributor? The choke should be adjusted to just barely snap closed when "cold" e.g. 70'F or so. For the first few seconds, of course it will run rich- then you kick it down off Fastest Idle and it should begin to run better at a more moderate RPM- one of the lower Fast Idle steps. Within a few minutes, you should be off fast idle entirely, as the choke fully opens, and the A/F mixture resides in an acceptable range.
...You can still opt to procure a proper carb, or get your original rebuilt.


Besides one of my cats would run off with one of the small parts as soon as I turn my back LOL!
===========
There are ways to get rid of cats.
:-)

AlanT

I've been playing with GM cars since 1974.
Have always wanted to rebuild a carb so I will do that to the old orig. one!
This town and STATE are full of looser scammer car repair people and I wont waste my time!

The car has 56k on it and looks like it under the hood especially.
I found myself dusting off the air cleaner lid the other day LOL.

I will proceed with rock to see how that plays out and leave the olds in the shed and use my ol faithful cummins truck till i figure it out, besides Diesel is like 3.55 right now!

AlanT

So I was a little surprised Any one was working at rock auto or rmaybe they are in shrelonka who knows? . SHE says I need an 17 digit VIN not a 13 one and I said IT'S a 41 year old car!

sent a snapshot of the VIN on the Title!

Obviously a part timer working on the holiday!

droldsmorland

Alan I think your best option is to have the original carb rebuilt or find an exact fit OEM spec'ed for a 72 Toro 455 thats been updated to live with todays gas, not a fits all carb which is what it sounds like you got from RA. The Ebrock AVS series carbs are great and quite tunable but will require some fabrication as its not a direct bolt on. RockAuto is an ok place say for a 95 Jeep not for a classic. They specialize in Offshore junk which is fine for a winter beater. Here are some vendors. JET, Cliff Ruggle, The Carb Shop. You certainly can rebuild this carb yourself but the leaking well plugs needs to be repaired correctly or it will simply do the same thing. If you attempt a rebuild get a high quality rebuild kit from one of these guys not RA or any big box places all you get is china junk.
A good carb shop wont give a hoot about your VIN. Just the fact that RA cant deal with earlier VINs should be a red flag. Call one of these guys and tell them you want a 252 Q-Jet carb for a 72 Toro or give them this number 7042252. Is this the same # as your original? It should be. If you send yours in for a rebuild be sure to tell them its a real leaker.