Ok, I'm starting to go cross eyed trying to figure out what part # I require for the inner tie rod ends on my '66 Toronado. I am easily able to find the replacement outer tie rod ends but the inner ones are confusing. I'm just not sure on what will actually fit.

My parts catalogs show that the PN for 1966 - 1972 inner tie rod ends should be 5695507. There is also a PN showing as applicable to all E bodies from '66-'74: 7817093, but I don't know what the difference could be. Is there a redesign somewhere along the way here?

In any case, if you go to Fusick's website they are offering an inner tie rod end but only for the 1969 to 1978 Toronados. So if the '66-'72 Toros took the same inner tie rod end, why is this part only available for the '69 - '78?? Fusick also says that this same inner tie rod end is applicable to the '67-'78 El Dorado but that original PN is 5699222 or 7819056 so none of these PN's match. Just makes me think there is a redesign going on here that I'm not aware of.

Kanter's website shows the exact same PN as Fusick but it is applicable to the '66 as well as the rest according to them. Bizzarre.

Has anyone replaced their original inner rod ends on the first gens? If so what did you use?

Also as a quick note, I'm fully aware of the existence of RockAuto, Kanter, etc.


My 1971 parts catalog shows the parts as applicable from 1966-1972


Later catalog shows a second PN available.

Fusick's strange description on their inner joint.



Kanter's website shows exact same PN as Fusicks. Except theirs states it fits '66 Toros

 

That's like a Canadian parts book, isn't it? What's the printing date?
Go back and look at your illustration again. Item 5 in the diagram is the OUTER tie rod end, which is Group 6.233. Item 8 is the INNER tie rod end, which is Group 6.230.
The Jan 1969 US parts book shows 5695506 as the outer tie rod end and 5695507 as the inner tie rod end.
And just for grins, I also checked the June 1967 parts book and the numbers are the same.

NOTE: Edited to correct typo

 

Wait, what?


This is from the 1975 book available online.

 

Yeah, it's a Canadian book. Printing date of 1971. What gives it away?

 

Sorry, I should have proofread what I wrote. DOH! Yes, Group 6.230 is the inner, Group 6.233 is the outer. I've edited my earlier post.

 

No problem Joe, I appreciate you looking into it anyway.

God, it seems like every other part I have to look for on this car goes down this seemingly endless rabbit hole of madness. Nothing but inconsistencies in PNs, one year only deals, unavailable or obsolete parts. Even when you get the same part number, it can be of a different design (see my thread on the two different headlight switch designs on '66 Toros). It's absolutely excruciating.

 

Chris / OurKid2000 ,
The Inner Tie Rods HAVE been OBSOLETE for many years by all companies....
Those that you illustrate from Kanter ( they reproduced them overseas) and Fusick buys them from them ( they get extra discount from them ) which is why they both have them for roughly the same price....

I can't save you a ton of money on this one --- but I can offer you two (2) *** N.O.S. *** U.S.A. made *** T R W *** inner Tie Rods @ $ 59.00 each + actual shipping !!!
Slightly better price and far superior quality --- a nice winning combination.....

Yours, Craig.....( 516 - 485 - 193five )......

 

Oh Craig, you always know just what to say to me.

 

Fun fact. The color diagram for the vacuum hoses is apparently wrong for my headlight switch. The yellow and green must be switched for mine to operate properly. Guess how long I spent trying to figure that out. Mine has the painted on dots just like the other photos I've seen. My green and yellow dots are in the same places as in the diagrams. But if I connect them as indicated, the lights will pop up but not go down. And yes the hoses go to the correct things under the hood, so they're not swapped at the other end. I can only guess that the internal sliding valve thing in the headlight switch is different, somehow. I'm not taking it apart after witnessing bsiegpaint's misery with his headlight switch.

 

May want to double check that. The headlight switch just has a little rubber slider with an "L" shaped slot that connects the 3 ports depending on position. I'd be pretty surprised if yours wasn't like the rest of em.

Usually what happens is the little Tee down by the vacuum tank gets swapped out by a previous owner over the years with one that doesn't have a hole drilled in it. This will prevent the lights from going down when you select the lights to off. The hole (has a little fuzzy filter over it) in the Tee is crucial.

Have a look at that Tee, it's actually the controller of the whole system and if it's not right, you'll be chasing headlight problems forever. I've attached a photo of the rubber selector valve below. I guess it's possible someone modified yours. It would actually be pretty easy to function check it to see if it's hooked up right internally .


See the "L" in the rubber?

 

Which tee in the diagram is the fuzzy tee?

 

This one, highlighted in Red. It should be located near the vacuum tank. Follow the line that comes off the control lock actuator. Note that there is a second tee by the radiator which connects the two headlamp canisters..........it's NOT that one. That's a solid Tee. I'll have a look for some pictures of mine, I'll post them if I find it.

 

The control tee, on mine, is located just around here (yellow arrow) just below the vacuum tank.


The control tee on mine is just beneath the vacuum tank where those vacuum lines are headed.

 

It turns out this is much more interesting than I thought! I stared at the diagram for a few minutes.

So with my hoses routed "wrong", the headlight switch either routes vacuum to the canisters, or to the diaphragms that release the locks. That would seem to make a lot of sense, and the locks and lifters operate on my car as expected. The lights however take several minutes to go down.

With the hoses routed the correct way, the diaphragms to release the locks get their vacuum from what's stored in the canisters. That's ... very interesting in that it both releases the locks and relieves some of the vacuum from the canisters which should allow them to lower faster. So the fuzzy tee has a tiny leak in it so that the locks eventually re-engage?

I hadn't intended this to turn into a thread hijack - as I originally thought it would just be yet another amusing/maddening anecdote. Never a dull moment with these cars. Perhaps a moderator can split my tangent into a separate thread.

 

Yep, you got it. The canister vacuum has just enough supply to pull the locks away and also release enough vacuum to allow the headlights to be closed by the internal spring when the switch is selected to off. The calibrated hole in the Tee allows this to happen by letting the atmospheric pressure in and the control locks eventually reset to be ready for the next time they have to engage. Also, without the calibrated "leak", if you have a particularly tight system the headlights won't go down (or they will take ages to go down). If you have a bit of a leaky system, your headlights will slowly go down.

On the surface, the system seems simple but the more you look at it you realize how complex it actually is.

 

Folks, I hate to bring this up again.....I do apologize. However can anyone shed some light on why Fusick shows the inner tie rod ends that they stock as applicable to the 69-78 Toronado and not applicable to the 66,67, and 68 Toronados while both the manuals I have show the inners on 66-70 as the same? Could this be a misprint I wonder? I have contacted Fusick about this, will see what they say.

 

Here is a little bit of part history...

5695507 replaced by 7817093

7817093 replaced by 7836229

7836229 interchangeable with 12309228

12309228 interchangeable with 12336208

12336208 discontinued 2/1/92

 

Third party catalogs are not reliable sources of part fitment data. Fusick still incorrectly shows the 1969-72 frame pads as being correct for 68 A-body cars, for example.

 

Sorry Joe, do you mean that you suspect Fusick is listing their parts incorrectly in this case? I guess it's possible that these things fit the much later Toronados and not the earlier 1st gens at all.

 

Thanks for that! I'll be filing those PN's away in my notes for sure.

 

Obviously they are. More to the point, why buy parts like that from Fusick, who simply gets them from traditional replacement parts manufacturers and resells them at a markup?

 

That's interesting......there's other sources for this stuff? I'd definitely check into this if I knew where they were getting them.

Ahh, re-reading the posts above Craig noted that Fusick gets them from Kanter. I noticed Fusick sells them a bit cheaper than Kanter though, kinda doesn't make any sense! 69 from Fusick, 85 from Kanter

 

Fusick's reply:

"I think a lot of this depends on the parts book you look in – I think the newer ones do supersede the inner tie rod to a single part number while the earlier ones differentiate between 1966 and 1967 and newer applications. I know that the boss has always tended toward using the earliest GM reference for the catalog applications. We do have the TRE361R tie rod ends on the shelf if you wanted to give one a try."

Not particularly helpful, and incorrect I do believe. I included the parts catalog screenshots from above in my email and I think they just disregarded them. Just as I suspected. Which is why I asked here first, LOL.

 

And as long as we’re on the subject, you haven’t sent me payment yet for
*** REAL *** U S A MADE —- T R W and MOOG —- no Chineseum labeled wrong tie rods —- and I haven’t cared that you haven’t sent payment yet —-
because I am planning to get into my Cube Smart to see if I have the
4th of 4 tie rods….. I haven’t unearthed it yet….

I will let you know , after the weekend if I have all 4 —- or only 3 ——
If you want them , Fine, If you don’t, Fine….


I will give you the Courtesy of a Courtesy Call…. Craig…..

 

incidentally, both Fusick and Kanter —- Chineseum reselling outfits —-
have them listed incorrectly —- it is not a “ misprint “

1966 - 1970 is the first listing —- Very Obsolete / Discontinued by all…..

1971 - 1978 is the second listing —- still available routinely….
( that is what the Chineseum world has ….. )

 

Hey Craig, yeah I haven't made the order quite yet just kinda hoping you could locate that last rod end for me. I'd rather get them from you anyway as I'm sure yours are much better quality! I'll give it a bit and then order it up regardless of that 4th rod end.

 

Chris ,
T R W and MOOG as you know --- thats's all that needs to be said....

I KNOW I had a " Four Pack " , but circumstances that happened to me, I need to find the 4th of 4 --- they screwed me up, big time, as you know....

That's also why I didn't care that you haven't sent me payment yet --- I am going to spend 6 to 8 hours in the Cube Smart, and hopefully, I find the 4th....

 

As I've written in the past, resellers like Fusick and RockAuto base their applications catalogs on what the part suppliers tell them. Didn't we have this discussion back in March?

 

^^^ Joe P. ^^^
You did have that conversation a few months ago….

Chris / “ ourkid2000 “ is actually a pretty good guy , a pleasure to talk to ,
and that’s one reason I am happy to serve him….

Being from Canada, where his dollar is weak compared to our dollar, and he lives too far away from the U S - Canada border to have a U S Address, so even USPS Shipping is a lot;
He just doesn’t want to overpay for his goods / supplies…..

And , of course, Kanter and Fusick are offering the $ 29 tie rods for $ 69 and $ 85 each —- but those are for the 1971 - 1978 routinely available application….

They are, of course , N O T for the 1966 - 1970 OBSOLETE / DISCONTINUED
application , where the alternative ( other than me !!! )
are $ 147 each for the Inners and $ 129 for the Outers !!! gulp…..

I have beaten that price handsomely for Chris / ourkid2000 from Canada —-
I just have to find the 4th of 4 , from the ransacking I was at the hands of…..

I spent 8 hours in my Cube Smart last weekend —- and I am going to spend double that this weekend….

Thanks Joe P. and Chris —- will be in touch ……. Craig…..
and still have a Buick Car Show on Sunday and , of course, Memorial Day Parade on Monday !!!

 

We touched on that subject but didn't discuss who the actual part suppliers of these particular part is. I mean, I guess in this case it's Kanter? I don't know if they're a reseller just like Fusick honestly.

 

Thanks for the positive feedback Craig. Yes, these are the things that keep me up at night...........ordering reasonably priced parts from the USA that become insanely expensive when they finally get to my door and then finding out that they don't fit and are incorrect for my car. This leads to insanely expensive shipping back to the USA. These thoughts haunt my dreams. Thankfully, I haven't had it happen to me yet.

I purchased $275 USD worth of parts from Fusick last year. With shipping, exchange, and the almighty Fedex customs fee, it cost me well over 600 bucks Cdn. If the parts didn't fit.......well, you can see where I'm going with this. This is why I agonize and scrutinize and triple check parts on here.