synoptic12

I believe that I may need front wheel bearings, most likely inner. However, I have not much experience with the hub or brakes. Would I need the hub and wheel bearings or just the bearings? I know not if they're pressed in. What would be the total cost with labor to do the work correctly. All replies welcome. I'm getting a popping clicking noise with some scraping. Car: 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham, 5.0 liter (307 c.i.).

oldcutlass

Wheel bearings are a simple repair with minimal hand tool requirements. You'll need inner and outer bearings and races, a seal, some bearing grease, and possibly a new cotter pin. There are many videos online that show you how to do it.

It will cost under $20 per side in parts.

don71

I feel the hardest part is removing the old races and installing the new ones though not difficult. Even so, an experienced person should be able to do both sides in under an hour.

Labor rates vary across the country. I'd consider the labor at about $100.00/hr. generally speaking of course.

joe_padavano

On an 86 you also need to remove the brake caliper first, but yes, this is one of the simplest jobs to do on a car. You'll also want to replace the grease seal.

At RockAuto, the wheel bearings are about $6 each, and the seal is under $2.

synoptic12

Thanks very much, most appreciated. The job may be simple for some but this has always been a weak point for me.

synoptic12

Thanks very much Joe. I'm not versed in brakes or hubs. Hopefully I will not spend a ton. When I turn the wheel to the right, I get a scraping noise and sporadic clicks and snaps going straight. The problem occurred about two weeks ago. I would only imagine it is the wheel bearings. I'll bring it to Tasca Chevy to do the work. I very much appreciate the courtesy Joe.

joe_padavano

Are there any shops left that even know how to pack a traditional front wheel bearing? Even RWD vehicles today use the integral sealed front bearings, not the old-style tapered roller bearings.

synoptic12

Thanks very much. Both sides in under an hour seems a bit fast, but I know nothing of the time associated with the bearings. Set up an appointment with Tasca to do the work. Hopefully, it is the wheel bearings. I know not what else it could be. Good pitman arm shaft, good sway bar (Moog). I do not believe the ball joints would act in this manner or the tie rods. Your input here is welcome.

synoptic12

* Yes, Tasca Chevy services my vehicle. The mechanic is very well an expert in my year vehicle. Bobby Tasca races the funny cars and the dealership is excellent. I even take my Challenger to Tasca Dodge. They've always done right for me. Irrespective of Tasca, one would be very hard pressed to find anyone to service this vehicle. In this respect, I am fortunate to have qualified top notch mechanics work on my car.

oldcutlass

I'd put the labor at at least 3 hours considering I spend at least 45 minutes cleaning parts, about an hour to change the races/ pack bearings, and another hour to remove and replace the hub.

joe_padavano

You forgot the hour looking for the tool you just put down and now can't find. Then there's the hour looking for the new wheel bearings that you KNOW arrived from RockAuto a week ago but are nowhere to be found...

synoptic12

Hopefully, "That's for the set on each side". Would I need to replace the set or just the bad bearing, 'Your opinion'.

oldcutlass

We all have our distinct sequence of events, we can ad the beer and cigar/ette break in there also.

synoptic12

Thanks for the good news Joe. I hope I will not be gauged too much. Nothing is cheap today. Will I have to replace both sides (inner and outer) or just the bad parts? Thanks very much Joe. I thought an hour was far too short of time.

joe_padavano

An hour is generous. This is a really easy task. My (tongue-in-cheek) point was that I spend more time on non-productive activities than it takes to actually do the work.

Vintage Chief

That's funny...what do you think?

synoptic12

I assumed as much. Too bad you were not in our area.

synoptic12

Well, Joe may have a point. I brought my car in to Valvoline quick lube to have the Olds' greased. I believe there are 13 grease fittings. Guess what, heard some creaking after a few days. So, I looked underneath and found "none" of the fittings greased. I even gave the guy a tip for they did not charge me anything. This is truly incredible what is going on these days. There are not many mechanics today, rather technicians whereas they plug their I.D. into the computer, waiting for the magic data to appear; then hopefully, or even maybe they can fix the problem. In trying to determine an issue where no data is shown is anyone's guess whether they have the aptitude to locate the actual cause. The dealers refer to the OBD 1 mechanics as 'brain dead', yet there are a few left; not very many. As I have said, good thing for Tasca or I would not know what do do. I used a mechanic at a Mobil station for a few years but his work was shoddy, leaving off the heat shield on the starter(only one bolt attached to the shield and the other not holding the shield, rather being bolted onto the starter). I said to him "Is it not supposed to fit"? His response, "Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't". After hearing that of an O.E.M. replacement, I will never go back there again. A center cap was missing one time on my wheels and my glove box was rifled through with all the papers strewn throughout the interior. End of him and end of story.

synoptic12

I knew I would not escape: Here is the cost I'm paying. All replies are appreciated as to cost.

joe_padavano

Since you've already approved the work, you don't want to hear what I have to say...

synoptic12

Please do

mrolds69

I live in Seekonk, I would never go to Tasca. Nor would I ever buy a car from them. I brought my 1999 Mustang to them once about 13 years ago for a check engine light deal. Ford 99's have a really complicated one year only emmisions system. I tried everything, pulled codes, swapped parts, bought parts, I couldn't fix it. Took it to Tasca and it was a crazy amount of $ to fix. They replaced stuff I already had replaced new a week or 2 before. They replaced stuff with no plan, just like I had done. They DID fix it eventually. They also fixed some unrelated stuff and said I needed it. I hope you can get out of that deal. I know a place in Seekonk that's honest and might do the bearings for you.

David Sloop

You got suckered...
If you own a classic car, you should be able, or not be afraid to learn simple tasks...
Otherwise you will go broke...
If you spent that kind of money on all of those repairs, you got took.

I once took my car in for what I thought was a worn wheel bearing.
I was in a shirt and tie, as I worked in an office back then.
The shop took me for an office worker that didn't know a thing about cars.
Tried to get me for a clutch.
Took it for a second opinion at a transmission shop.
They checked it over, and found the bad wheel bearings.

Some shops can smell easy prey a mile away.
From your first couple posts in this thread, I could tell you were going to end up getting taken for a ride.

joe_padavano

I have no experience with Tasca. All I can say is that I would never take an older car to a modern dealership service bay. First, "mechanics" today are only parts replacers. They only know how to read codes and replace the parts the computer tells them to. They couldn't diagnose their way out of a paper bag. Second, any service organization that has software with all those items to check and recommend is guaranteed to find other things wrong while they have the car in the bay. That's called upselling. A simple wheel bearing replacement turned into new spindle, complete new brakes at all four wheels, and a tie rod and alignment. Ka-CHING. Third, any organization like that is run by lawyers. If there is the remotest discrepancy, they will require you to pay them to fix it (like the spindle replacement) to avoid even the tiniest risk of a lawsuit later.

Sorry, but for $15, get a Chassis Service Manual. Even ASSUMING all those parts were needed (and that's a big "IF"), that's under $200 from RockAuto for brand name parts (Moog, Raybestos, SKF, etc). I do my own alignments also, but even if you had to pay for an alignment, that's still a total 1/10 the cost you paid. Your money, your call, but that $2500 would buy an awesome set of tools. Note that they apparently didn't use new mounting hardware on the calipers, which is something I always do to ensure even front brake wear. And the "Precision 3D alignment" is total BS - ANY alignment is "3D". Did they give you before and after measurements of camber, caster, and toe? Most places adjust toe only, and even then usually screw up the steering wheel centering. Does it look like there are new shims in the upper control arms?

RandyS

Dude, I hope you at least got a kiss..........

oldcutlass

You can buy a lot of tools and parts for what they are charging you. Repairing and/or restoring cars through your wallet only is very expensive.

synoptic12

Joe, I agree with you somewhat; not entirely. I was taken in to the bay and shown my hub which was nearly off. They said, " A good thing you're not dead". I've owned the car since new, so ,I know what I have. The tie rod was long, long overdue. I had the option on the rear brakes but opted in. I move fast, or drive fast so I rely on my brakes. Without brakes, I cannot drive.. The alignment (3D) is a question, seeing that I have a straight rear axle. The alignment is essential with all the parts being replaced. I believe the wheel bearing or damaged knuckle and spindle scored the rotor. They advised two rotors, so I agreed. The shims in the upper control arm have not been touched in about forty years.

In terms of the 'technicians', I'm in total agreement but the person working on my car had a shop and is highly knowledgeable in classic cars' 'Is why I brought it back. You are referring to the mainstream technicians of today, 'not mechanics'. A mechanic is working on my vehicle, 'not a technician'. I have a chassis service manual but do not have the time to undertake that type of job. I really do not care to do any top end work any longer. I believe I did a tune up a few years back and it was a task as I'm getting older. No dealers would even take my car in for the age and responsibility of damage, whereby they may have a hard time trying to find the part they broke or damaged. All parts are coming from NAPA and it will be about a week to get the car back. They gave me a rental free for a week. I believe I said earlier that I brought my car in to Valvoline Quick Lube. They did not even lube my car the first time. Brought it back and they still only greased a few points. Tasca showed me the evidence on the lift where nothing was greased. They're taking care of that and the speedo cable which I made mention in an earlier thread. There just are not honest people in this generation. What do you expect me to do? The guy at the Mobil station was the person who messed or hacked my brakes. I do not even wish to discuss that.

You know, there's a lot of so-called experts on line believing they know everything, no offense to you Joe for I sincerely respect your opinions and advice. You have assisted me greatly in the past. Yet, the great many believe they can repair anything and have a cost associated to determine the final outcome. This is merely a false pretense being assumed by the again 'so-called experts'. People have recently offered me $6500.00 cash ans $10,000 cash in hand for the car, even with some rust. Both offers were declined by me. My motor looks new, has hydraulic roller lifters and valves, swirl port heads, and made in Detroit, "no foreign parts" > 'At least when made'. As I said Joe if you were in my area you would be more than welcome to tackle the job, but you're not. Sure, the labor rate is a touch high but even Pep Boys and Midas have similar or "higher" labor rates with hacks for mechanics". If it were not for the Mechanic (Ken) working on my car, nothing would be repaired, "You can be fully assured of that". There are very few mechanics left versed in the OBD 1. In a certain sense, I'm somewhat lucky to have Tasca available. To all the experts or naysayers believing I paid too much, please post the total cost you or any would be willing to pay for the work. When it comes to the front end and suspension, adjoined with brakes, "I wish to have the vehicle serviced properly", 'Not by a backyard mechanic, believing he's an expert'. My Rochester 4 barrel was rebuilt over thirty years ago by a mechanic working as a technician at Viking Oldsmobile in Middletown, R.I. He had his own carburetor shop prior. The Rochester 4 barrel still kicks in and runs like a champ. I inquire and investigate people's credentials before they work on my car, all documented fully. Electronics was my line of work for forty years, may have mentioned that fact somewhere. When I perform or troubleshoot electronics data: software or hardware", "I charge". When someone is experienced and does the job right the first time, "I'm satisfied", rather than returning three times, never knowing the outcome. This is a prime example of that (Mobil guy). Thank you very much Joe for your input. The way I look at it, I saved more than a few dollars on my car with the work I performed, electrical, tune-ups, and oil changes. That's not an excuse but that's just the way it is.

synoptic12

I only have the "tools" relevant for this generation.

joe_padavano

The mind reading thing still isn't working. We only know what you tell us. Up to this point, all you told us was that you needed to replace wheel bearings. This is the first time you've said you needed all that other work. Look, I understand that a shop has expenses and will be significantly more expensive than doing it yourself, but from everything you's told us up to this point, the car only needed wheel bearings. If you KNEW it needed all that other work, and told us that, the shock at the price and the magnitude of the work would not have been as great. From Post #1:

Based on that, all we saw was that new, "most likely inner" wheel bearings became a $2500 repair. What did you expect people to think?

synoptic12

66SportCoupe

I work for a classic car dealership as a mechanic and deal with this daily. You are getting totally screwed over for that. The job is $250 at best. Even if spindle is junk might go to $500.

Grayghost

For 500.00
I would EXPECT them to be installing.
new rotors that will have new bearing races already in them, the new bearings greased, new brake pads, new grease seals, caliper pins greased,
I doubt a shop today is going to knock out old bearing races out of questionable rotors. They will install new rotors.
By the time they pound out the old bearing races, and press in new, the labor to do so+ the bearing races themselves, you could buy new rotors, and most likely what the shop will quote you for.

By the way, what makes you think you need new front bearings?

Grayghost

Labor rates differ in location by a wide margin.
I agree, 500 is very high. unless that 500.00 is including new rotors and brake pads and caliper pin grease.
What is the book time on front brake on a 80's g body 1.5h? That is 220.00 just in labor around here.

joe_padavano

Which is exactly how you repair a tie rod.

The tie rod has three parts, the inner end, the outer end, and the connecting sleeve. The outer end gets the most wear and thus typically needs to be replaced more frequently than the other parts. The sleeve gets no wear and only needs to be replaced if it is so rusted that you can't unscrew the tie rod ends. I only replace the inners if I'm doing a complete front end rebuild (including center link) or if they are shown to be worn. In nearly half a century of working on these cars, I've never found an inner that was actually worn.

Sorry, but shops like this are counting on customers who are less familiar with the workings of their vehicle and thus are inclined to spend whatever they are told to "protect the safety of my family." Even if you don't plan to do the work yourself, an educated consumer keeps more money in his or her wallet. Again, your money, your call.

rothlane'68

Yeah... sorry, but I would agree with everyone else: Everything on that invoice might come to $500 at the shop I use for my Hyundai, maybe $700 (and thats a big if) the spindle was really in need of replacement. I'd expect to do it in my driveway for $200 in parts (again, maybe $300 with the spindle from eBay or a junkyard).

But hey, look on the bright side, it states very clearly on page 2 of your invoice that there are no factory recalls to worry about at this time. Never mind that Oldsmobile hasn't built a car since 2004.

When I used to take my 442 to a shop I found I was often quoted a price that I felt was intended to either bankrupt me or make me go away. The "Go Away Price" as I call it is the mechanic's nice, or not so nice say of letting me know that my repair is not worth his time and if I would like it done at his shop I'm going to have to *make* it worth his time. If I am being charitable, maybe it just includes the time he is going to have to spend scratching his head, wondering if the alignment specs in his computer system for an 86 custom cruiser will work for a '68 442 (true story)... but either way the price is way off base. I started spending my money on tools and I'm much happier.

Next time this thing needs a repair, why not put some miles on that Challenger until you can find the time?

Grayghost

It very well could be the "go away pricing"
Good point

synoptic12

Thanks very much guys for all your input. I'm not a stranger to cost or mechanical aptitude, just do not have the time. More importantly, try finding anyone with knowledge or versed in G bodies in our state, or maybe any other state. I know one thing, 'The work will be done properly' with a two year warranty. To me, it's worth every penny even if the mainstream believe I've been ripped off or taken advantage of.

Irrespective of the above, while the car is in the service bay I would like for them to check the rear bushings on the control arms. Are the 'trailing arms' considered control arms as well? If I decide to replace the bushings, "What would be a reasonable cost? I looked into this some years back and found it difficult, if not impossible to find the control arms. I could purchase either the top or bottom (forget which one) and could not find the exact tolerances to match up with the specs on my car. I did an abundance of research. The Tasca dealership has never lied to me which is far more valuable than cost. I've worked in and at dealerships for over forty years servicing vehicle electronic systems, namely as a radio technician. I'm not at all lost as to how dealerships operate and communicate with each other. I mainly worked Southeastern MA. and surrounding areas. Worked on all makes, Corvette, Lamborghini, Nissan and foreign, Ford, Chevy; you name it. I left the business when the analog circuitry moved to digital. There is just far too much complexities associated with digital. The raceway circuitry composed of diodes, ic's, transistors, and boards have all changed. Micro circuits, TIPM's, and the remainder of items adjoined to the 'new' way is not to my liking, not at all. Naturally, they'll be experts here denying me this fact as well.

So, rather than starting a new op-ed, I decided to speak of the bushings in the control arms here. All input relating to cost would be appreciated. I look at it as, 'The car is in, so why not check the rest'. They made no mention of the bushings but after 166,000 miles they possibly could use new bushings. No sloppy steering wheel or sway, just looking at preventative maintenance, long overdue. Thanks very much guys. As I mentioned earlier somewhere, if any of you were in my area, I would certainly pay any to repair the car. Money is a tool, like anything else.

synoptic12

Very good point. Cannot be left without a car in the pits. To me, the Challenger is vanity. In fact, each day I consider the Challenger just another part of the world. I imagine with age comes wisdom. I'm old school, maybe even ancient school when it comes to mechanics. I just deplore new technology and all the junk associated with it. It is a 'throw away' generation whereas not any care for anything, "only their i-phones' and whatever else they do with texting. Apparently, this is their excitement. All those apps and junk are being inserted into vehicle systems. Add the air bags, side curtains, door bags, and all the other bags makes one feel trapped. Add the 'hotwheels' unit body (unibody) frame and one has a piece of ...... The metal on my Challenger is like a Pepsi can but FCA (Now Stellantis) > merging with Peugeot) gave me an aluminum hood. Thanks for your opinion.

joe_padavano

Given the number of horror stories from people who have had shoddy or incorrect workmanship from even highly recommended shops, I hope for your sake that "the work will be done properly". The inability to find a shop capable of that is why I do all my own work.

The rear suspension links are called both control arms and trailing arms. The name is irrelevant. Most shops today only know how to obtain new arms with the bushings already installed and simply swap them out (see the comment about "parts replacers" as opposed to "mechanics"). I'll be amazed if you can find new stock replacement arms with bushings ready to bolt in. Yeah, you can buy aftermarket arms, but not originals. Moog sells the bushings to replace the old ones in your existing arms. Good luck finding a shop that wants to do that, or even knows how to do it correctly without crushing the arms. See the comment above about the "go away price". And yeah, after 166K miles, those bushings are due for replacement. I assume the fronts have been done already? If not, that's the higher priority.

Vintage Chief

Yes, both the rear upper (UCA=Upper Control Arm) & rear lower (LCA) are considered trailing arms for your suspension.