Finally getting to front spring replacement on my 67, non-air. I've gone thru the Moog 18 page chart and looks like the 5536 is close to stock specs. Also Summit lists this as the stock replacement. Anyone have any opinions or other suggestions? I want to get back to original height - teeny bit lower ok but not higher. Also want better handling and decent ride (I want it all, don't I?) All things equal I would like to use Summit as they are close by for conveinance (no shipping).

What about rears?
Thanks

 

The 5536 has the wrong end on them. You need Tangential on both ends, so I believe your front stock spring should be 5234.

I use this chart as you can sort by differnet columns.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...il_Springs.asp

 

Moog has never made the correct springs for the 66-7 442. The fronts were 425 lb/in and the rears 144 lb/in. Fronts need to be tangential both ends, as stated above. The rears were tangential one end and pigtail the other end.

 

Boy, glad I asked about this. Thanks for the info. I understand pigtail but what does square and tangential mean? I see the specs on the 5234 are close except for rate. Why the big difference? 297 vs 425 seems to be a big difference to me. I do notice that OPG sells the 5234 as non-air replacement.
Just looked at some pics at yr1 and maybe I answered my own ?. One shows the end "flattened" against the coil above while another shows what looks like the last coil could continue on, as if just cut off. Is this square vs tang?
Thanks much!

 

Just went back to Summit and did a search on actual part no and sure enough, they do show the 5234 as replacement for 67. I did not pay attention on my first search as I entered the yr/car and trusted the system to bring up correct part (did not see the fine print for check application) but now I see the 5536 is for later models. As I stated above I still don't understand the big diffference in rates.
Thanks much for the info...you guys may make a chassis engineer of me yet!

Added bonus, the 5234 is cheaper than the 5536

 

Run, since Moog doesn't make exact replacement should I go to another brand? I just always considered Moog as the name in value/quality. Any suggestions?

 

Square means the end is flattened, for a frame cup that is flat. Tangential means the end coil is wound closer to the next one but still round. I don't know if the restoration companies make good springs or not. I have never tried to buy new replacement front coils of 442 spring rate, so just use something else from Moog. For drag racing, I like the 5230 with 3/8 of a coil cut from each end. To fit the upper and lower pockets, you need tangential ends and it is best to have 1.5" to 2" length beyond an integral number of coils.

 

You definitely want the upper end to fit close to the end of the formed pocket in the frame; the factory put a sight hole there that you can see from above, but I like to put a dab of yellow paint at the end of the cup and make sure the coil is very close to the end when I install it. The upper cup is shallow while the lower one in the A arm is deeper so more tolerant of the coil end being out of place a little. The factory did say to put it between the two sight holes in the A arm.

 

Good info Run, thanks much. I removed lower arms today (I see the two sight holes) and found another reason not to have headers...lower rear c/a bolts had to be cut because header tube is in the way. When I reassemble is it ok to reverse the bolt...put the nut end to the inside? Otherwise it's "drop the headers" to get the bolt in correctly. Also thanks for explaining square/tang...I understand now I do need both ends tang. Really apprecitate the help!

 

The bolts can go either way. The factory installed them the way that was easiest for them. Torque to 75 ft lb with the weight of the car on the suspension.

 

Thanks, that's good to know. I appreciate all the help!!

 

"Run" you are correct on the Moog springs..looks like the 5234 is just a std replacement for ALL Cutlass sedans. Both Summit and OPG sell this and the guy at Sum. agreed that the light rate would be very noticable. Sooooo, I bit the bullet and went down the road to Year1 and talked to the counter guy that I have gotten to know pretty well. He highly recommended their OEM replacement, built to original specs. He used them on his 68 and was satisfied. Said they take about a month to settle down but did so and were correct height. They are a little pricey but he gave me a discount so if they do what I want I will be happy. Takes 2-3 weeks to get them tho. Thanks for all the help and info and I will let you all know how they work out.

 

Received my Yr1 springs (really fast!) and they are from Eaton, Detroit Spring. The fronts are a good bit taller than what I took out-about a full coil. I hope they don't set the nose too high but am gonna try em. Will keep you all posted.

 

Post some pic's when you get it done.

 

Will do, hopefully by next weekend. Your car sure sits nice...a very good looking ride!

 

Hope these don't set the nose TOOO high!

 

i hope its not too high for you --- for what its worth I did NOT like my height with that spring --- I use (and like very much) the standard small 330 v-8 spring called for in an ordinary cutlass. If you look at any pix of my white car you can look at the stance I haave with the 400 BB motor.
Some have also used the 6 cyl spring too. I think "Run" may have tried the 6 cyl ones at one time? What say you, Joe? Hers one shot of it sittin!

 

I'm afraid you may be right....that's why I went ahead and invested in a spring compressor so I can change them out without having to borrow one. I figure I will give it a few miles to settle in and if needed try cutting a coil before trying different springs. I'll probably end up joining the spring-of-the-month club (LOL).

 

I may be interested in them if they are too high for your taste. I like the 'raised up' look and have been looking at taller springs for my car.

 

All you have to do is cut them down a bit to lower the car. No need for new springs, take 1/2 loop out at a time until it gets to where you want it.

 

Weather was too nice this weekend so had to do outside work and did not get my front end job finished so still don't know how it's going to sit. To make matters worse, the new rear coils were the same or maybe a few tenths SHORTER. Gonna be interesting! Oldcutlass I will definitely take your advice if it is way too high.

Another question..any suggestions on a accurate way to center the steering box and get wheels straight enough to rough set the toe? Will just halfing the steering wheel turns be accurate enough to get close?

 

Yes, just count the turns from lock to lock and divide by 2.

 

thnx oldcutlass.

 

RandyS, I will keep you in mind if I decide to replace instead of cutting. Thanks

 

Well I'm afraid they are too high for what I want....raised 3". I haven't been on the road yet but I'm sure I will be swapping these out. I should have listened to you guys and gotten the Moog 5234. These also seem pretty stiff...hardly any give. If I cut these down, won't that just make them stiffer?

 

Love those old worn out 330 cutlass springs!! LOL -- and YES MIKE -- cutting off coils does stiffen the spring rate!!

 

Mike, I called Detroit Eaton Spring and told them what I wanted as far as height and got exactly what I wanted...

 

They are going to settle some, drive it around a bit. Do you have any pictures of it with the front and back on the ground.

 

These were Detroit Eaton thru Year1 but they may have ordered wagon springs or something accidentally. The box had a stamp that just said 67 442.

 

I didn't get a chance to get out of garage for pics but hope to this weekend (weather permitting). We are having our traditional late winter here in Ga!

 

Actually 40 years ago this is exactly the look I would have wanted! Your avatar pic is beautiful, coming off the line with the nose up!
Thanks for all your help!

 

Maybe something got lost in the info trail. When I dealt directly with D-eaton they asked a lot of questions such as if the car had AC, aftermarket intake, heads, headers or if I was planning on swapping anything along those lines.

 

I think I will give them a call with the part no on the box and see if they can help. Thanks for prodding my feeble brain there.

 

According to part no I got the heavy duty/vert with air spring. Finally got er out and made a short trip. Surprise, it didn't ride too harsh but just too high for me.

 

Could you measure from the ground to the top of the fender wheel well lip, centered on the wheel hub.

 

I think it was 29 1/4. I will try to remember to recheck when I get home this eve and repost if it's different. Getting ready to go to Charlotte Spring Fest for the weekend so it might be Sun/Mon before I get back on here. I forgot to pre-measure the rear but the new springs were close to same height as original and it looks like it raised just a smidge to take out some sag.

 

Post the spring pn also, there are a lot of people who would like to get their front ends up and want to know options.

 

Here is the Detroit web site for Olds http://www.eatonsprings.com/64-74olds442.html The p/n for my fronts is MC3474. They also offer these in different ride heights but I don't know what I might have gotten.
I talked to someone there and all he could say is that the hd spring would not raise it that much. He did say having the battery in trunk could affect it some but he didn't want to go any further. I'll have to trace this back thru Year1 with a po to see what they sent. I'll follow up when I get back in town.