Northern Custom Cruiser

Close, but no cigar. They're there, barely....

76olds

I would also like to know the outcome one you rotate the tires to the rear.
Have you checked the U-joints on the driveshaft?
While its jacked up in the rear, fire up the car and put it in driveso the rear wheels are turning, if you hear or see anything noise or vibration let us know.
Lots of great posts from the guys here. As you mentioned the info here is as good or better than most garages !!
I hope you find the culprit soon.
Cheers
Eric

Northern Custom Cruiser

So, i decided there was no need to rotate the tires because when i had both sides jacked up i gripped the passenger front tire and theres about 3 or so inches of play from left to right that goes all the way across and affects the other wheel identically so I figured thats all i needed to see. The question is, why? When i move the tire, the tie rods and everything connected to them moves as well, but what holds all of this tight thats obviously worn out?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Could it be the idler arm...?

Gary M

Well, when it all moves the part that doesn't narrows down the worst but Allen nailed it as he always does. My thoughts are you can replace as little as you want but when it comes to steering any weak link can ruin your day. Even worse it can change lives. Bushings ruin tires and ease in handling.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Welp, been looking at the car up on jacks this whole weekend. Rivots are still getting the best of me... As soon as i make some progress, i will be back

Northern Custom Cruiser

Air hammer made quick work of the rivots, my only problem now is that the control arm where the new ball joints need to be pressed in is only about an 1/8 of an inch thick, is it safe to press the new ball joints into this thin area without having the dust cover to hold it on?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Yep, the heat mustve been getting to me. Disregard that last post.

Anywho, heres where i am thus far.. It was a long hot messy day and i had to throw in the towel because i didnt think my neighbors would appreciate me whacking the car with a mallet at 11pm. Im having alittle trouble getting the lower ball joint seated properly but im sure tomorrow ill have a fresh start and things will go smoothly. Let me just say wow, i hate suspension work....

Allan R

Umm, whacking the lower ball joint in with a hammer??? Seriously??? I guess you could do that, but what a lot of work, and those suckers look like they're rust welded in place. The lower ball joint is pressed in. Go to Autozone and get a loaner (free rental) press. Makes work a whole lot easier.

Actually, IMO it would be better to just take the control arms off the car in the first place to do all the repairs you need. MUCH easier to work on the ball joints and the bushings. Make sure you know what you're doing though. Taking out the springs can be very dangerous if you don't know how. It's actually not as bad as most people think, but work safely, please

To remove the old upper ball joints, the proper procedure is to drill out the old rivets. But if you air chiselled them out and didn't destroy the mounting area, ok. If you removed too much metal from the mounting area, the A arms are useless as they need that metal for strength. You could used washers to reinforce the area I guess. However, you still need to remove that A arm to install the new bushings though. The new ball joints are typically bolted in, not riveted.

While you're doing all this work, take the time to remove the inner and outer wheel bearings, inspect and repack them. Install as per specs. Examine the spindle for damage. Check the brake lines and calipers while you're at it. If they haven't been serviced either, you may have more work on your hands than you thought. Fortunately the calipers are single piston and easy to rebuild. Brake hoses aren't expensive either and if the old ones are as cracked as the bushings, they're not safe.

This is where your CSM comes in very handy for all the torque specs, adjustments and inspection items.

Allan R

Nice picture. While you're there, replace the stabilizer links and bushings. And those front shocks likely need replacing too.
Since you've gone this far, you might as well do the upper and lower control arm bushings. Don't lose the shims, and note what position and how many were there so you can get it back together for a trip to the alignment shop. It might take a bit of force to break the control arm shaft bolts loose. The ones on the steering side don't have a lot of room to work with.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Understood, sort of...

First, i start with the A-arms. Im aliitle confused on the bushings I need for the upper and lower. What would they be refered to as and how would i efficiently search for them all on, per say, rockauto? I tried following through its categories but ended up with a huge combination of words such as Upper, Lower, Forward, Rear etc... So which is actually which? I mean id like to order them all, and id assume MOOG would be the way to go based off of what ive read on here so far.

Allan R

Ok, lets do it one step at a time.
A arms you know what they are. On one end they have the ball joints, the other wide part of the A has the Control Arm bushings. When the reference is for Upper control arm bushings, those are the ones in the Upper control Arm. Similarly the ones in the lower control arms are the Lower Control Arm bushings.

It's important that you understand the relationship of the bushings. Front Upper forward means the ones that are closest to the front of the car. Rear upper forward means the ones that are closer to the firewall. Do NOT confuse this with REAR control arm bushings. Those are the ones on the rear suspension.

I looked at Rockauto just now. For 1973 Delta 88 with 5.7 engine. If it was my car I'd probably go with AC Delco bushings, but since you stated you wanted MOOG they have a kit K6108 that has both the upper bushings you'll need for one side. Order 2 of those kits. For the lower control arms, MOOG kit K6109 should do the trick.

Your stabilizer link kit? I'd go with AC Delco - 45G0013.

You'll also need the stabilizer bushing (it's attached to the front suspension forks - easy to see from under the car, just follow the stabilizer bar - Your car is a coupe not a convertible so likely you need the 15/16" bushings. AC Delco 45G0500

Just so you know, I'm not a fan of poly bushings. I like the rubber ones that came with the OEM parts better.

BTW, you want to definitely do a bit of research on removing the bushings from the upper and lower control arms. If done wrong you could collapse the ears that hold the bushings in place. If you don't understand this, just yell and I'll show you some tips.

Does this help out a bit?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Yes it does, alot.

I dont understand what you mean about the bushings yet but ill get back with you after i do some research.

Also, ill hear your opinion on AC Delco vs MOOG. I was just taking in what ive seen the most.

Allan R

Ok, let me try it this way.
You know that the A Arms are also referred to as control arms. The A arms (control arms) are bolted to the cars frame, but they have to flex to be effective as a suspension. That flex is achieved by up and down pivoting. That pivot is where the control arm bushings come in. If those bushings wear out or deteriorate they will contribute to poor handling and won't allow you to do a good alignment.

Those bushings are what keeps the control arms tight and working properly. They are an integral part of your suspension.

Moot vs AC Delco? I personally prefer AC Delco whenever possible, but MOOG is a very reputable supplier. I wouldn't hesitate to use either. I'm on my iPad right now and it's not as user friendly as my desktop. I'll try to get you some pics later that show the bushings better.

Like I said earlier, you might as well do these bushings. You're more than half way there. Based on the corrosion I see on those a frames you'll have a bit of a struggle getting them out, but they need to be done.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Oh i totally understand their location and purpose, i was referring to the potential to colapse the ears and whatnot. Ill take as many tips as you can hand out though and i plan on doing my studying before messing with thw spring or bushings

Allan R

How's this project going? I had a post ready for you and BAM it disappeard which kind of Pi$$ed me off.
Long story short - here's a link that shows the replacement on a DIY. The guy doing this has clean parts to work with, not corroded like yours. There are 2 videos you can use for reference.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Well im getting things apart and figured out but the one thing that still is worrying me is i dont think any of this is going to solve the actual problem. When i grip the tire at 3 and 9 o'clock and turn it everything moves including the pitman arm in synchronicity.

When i have the car on, thus activating the ability to take advantage of the power steering and grip the steering shaft/column or w.e. from the engine bay and twist it left and right which moves the steering wheel as well a good amount and the tires do not move. This extreme amount of play between the shaft itself and the rest of the suspension is what causes the tires to wander left and right violently.

Could this problem be in the steering box?

Ill take a look at those videos as well in the meantime

TripDeuces

The nut and lock screw on top of the steering box can be adjusted to remove play. I would leave some as it becomes twitchy without a little bit at least.

oldcutlass

Sitting in the car, how far can you turn the steering wheel before the tires move right and left?

Allan R

Before you start adjusting anything on the ps pump, check the ps reservoir to ensure you have a proper level of fluid.

Northern Custom Cruiser

This much...

Northern Custom Cruiser

Well they wernt supossed to be upside down. Anyways, how do i properly mess with this lock screw and nut without getting myself into a bigger mess?

Northern Custom Cruiser

And thats with both tires off the ground btw

Northern Custom Cruiser

Is this the nut of which you speak?

oldcutlass

Yes, underneath all that gunk there is an allen screw in the center. Hold the allen in place and loosen the nut. Only tighten the allen screw an 1/8 of a turn and then hold it in place and tighten the nut. If its tightened to much the steering will bind and possibly damage the worm gear. I don't think this will solve your shimmy issue.

Northern Custom Cruiser

I do, indeed

Northern Custom Cruiser

Well, before i try it then where do you think the problem might lie? It always had a decent amount of play but nothing was ever forcing it to shimmy so violently.

oldcutlass

You need to look at all your steering components, a shimmy is usually due to something thats out of alignment thats effecting caster. Picture a shopping cart with the front wheels that shake.

Allan R

When you removed your spindles, did you inspect the inner and outer bearings? They're also likely due for clean/repack or replace. They could also affect the wheels stability.

Northern Custom Cruiser

Yes i did, they looked good, however i wasnt sure what to look for exactly but i cleaned them up and slopped in some new grease for now. Im really just trying to pinpoint this before throwing a bunch of parts at it and then having to spend just as much on the steering box being bad. I plan on doing it all, i just dont like not knowing. Surly there must be a series of tests i can do to pinpoint this exact problem.

Allan R

The sad part of this is that with all those front end parts being so deteriorated it's a bit of a crap shoot till the front end is solid. I do agree that the amount of slop in that steering is unusual. It should be quite a bit tighter.
How many miles are on this car? Somehow the 74K on the dash seems like it's been around the clock once already.

Northern Custom Cruiser

From the owner, the 74k are original and it had been in the family since it was bought. I think it could be my pitman arm, or the center link if thats possible. I think this because when ive got the car off and the steering wheel unlocked and i grip the column from the engine bay and turn it back and forth theres movement where the pitman arm connects to the center link and the pitman arm lags before moving with the column as i twist it as if theres a decent amout of play. I think i just need a new steering box, but the question is where do i find one?

oldcutlass

There are no wear parts on the pitman arm, its solid steel. It could be the joint in your centerlink, combined with wear in all the other steering components. If you reach up and move the steering shaft and turn it, there should be some rotational play in each direction before you see movement in the pitman arm. Steering boxes seldom go out. Do you have any friends that are familiar with front ends that can throw another set of eyes on it?

Northern Custom Cruiser

Im the most intelligent person i know of when it comes to any car, and thats a very sad statement. I wouldnt trust many of the people i know to so much as change the oil in my car...

I understand all my steering components are worn, and that means play. But what i dont get is how it changed from play to rapid jerking back and forth of everything at any speed all at once so rapidly and violently. The car turns fine as far as theres no resistance in the power steering other that the rapid jerking. If i knew replacing the tie rods and all that junk would fix it completely, id already have it done. Ive spent most of my time scratching my head staring at it.

Northern Custom Cruiser

If it helps, the last thing "fixed" was the steering column..

Allan R

Eric's right. The pitman arm won't be the problem, and if your actual milage is 74 k the steering box shouldn't be the problem either. The center link (aka drag link) connects your 2 idler arms. If there's as much play in the connections to the idler arms and then the ball joints as in catastrophic failure, I can see why the steering slip is so severe. It's like all the worn out parts fighting with each other to try an maintain control, but failing miserably. I'm inclined to think that once you've changed out the iders, center link, ball joints, control arm bushings, and stabilizer bushings and link kits your front suspension will be right and tight. An alignment to ensure you're tracking true and this car should drive and steer like new.

oldcutlass

Your front end parts list are:
2ea upper control arm bushings each side for a total of 2 pkg's - MOOG K6198 - $10.50ea 2pk
2ea lower control arm bushings each side for a total of 2pkg's - MOOG K6109 - $13.65ea 2pk
1ea upper ball joint each side for a total of 2 - MOOG K5208 - $15.32ea
1ea lower ball joint each side for a total of 2 - MOOG K6145T - $18.45ea
1ea stabilizer bar link set for a total 2 - MOOG K6630 - $6.14ea
1 set of stabilizer bar bushings - you need to measure yours for correct size.
1ea inner tie rod end each side for a total of 2 - MOOG ES2020RLT - $15.57 ea
1ea outer tie rod end each side for a total of 2 - MOOG ES2019RLT - $15.14ea
1ea center link - Moog DS899 -$50.79
1ea idler arm - MOOG K6187T - $26.79
You should not have to change your pitman arm. I agree with Allan, your steering box should be fine. This whole job can usually be done in a weekend.

You can get these at your local auto parts store if you like. I bought all mine at rockauto.com as even with shipping they were way cheaper with their online discount code. I prefer Moog brand parts.

Ask if anyone has a current discount code on this thread:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...nt-code-5.html

texxas

6805120461020472 is the code I got this week, good for the customary 5% off at Rockauto.

Allan R

Eric, from what I've followed so far he's already done the upper and lower ball joints. I'm betting the stabilizer shaft is 15/16"
I also looked up this parts on RA earlier.