oldsbucket

after reading the recent thread on this i installed a jeep box in the 72 vista everything was going to plan until i installed the pitman arm it would not go on in the dead ahead position. when i disassembled the wheels were straight, steering wheel straight. bolted up the new box and to get it to align i had to turm the shaft a bit which meant the steering wheel when installed is no longer straight now its about 1/8 turn off i know this can be adjusted out at the tie rods but i'm worried that the box may have internal damage.
The rag joint is installed with the pinch bolt on the flat. i think it should have resulted in no adjustment nesessary although i did get a spacer that went between the the box and frame about 3/4" thick i didn't use perhaps that is the issue?

oldstata

They way I center box is I turn all the way from left to right go back from right to left count turns and
Divide by 2 that should be center
If not then you might of got a bad box or maybe it's one that's different are you sure it was from a jgc

I would check and make sure that it turn equal
After a job like this you should do alignment because you were messing with it . box may have less or more worm gear play that would off center wheel

Lady72nRob71

The tie rods will easily adjust out 1/8 of a turn. I had the same issue when I had my original box rebuilt. I had thought I kept everything straight also. It was not quite 1/8 turn but close. I adjusted it in the driveway with some sand under the front tires. one adjuster will turn one way and the other the opposite. Do half turns at a time-they adjust more than you would think.. You have to turn them in the same amounts on both ends to keep the toe correct. I have a useful toe alignment instruction in my front end thread linked below...

MDchanic

There's something wrong.

The pitman arm should have four possible ways to go on, each 90° from the next, and only one will fit in such a way that the steering works.
The rag joint should have one "right" way to connect, and one "wrong" way, 180° out, that you can manage to connect if you work at it.
So long as you didn't remove the steering wheel, there should be no other variables, and the steering should line up as before, so long as you got the box roughly centered before you mated it to the column.



I disagree with this.

Changing a steering box (or pitman arm, or drag link) does not change any of the things that are checked and adjusted when aligning the wheels. There should be no need for an alignment.

- Eric

oldstata

I see your point but don't agree I have done many alignments due to box pitman and idler replacement there is a reason the labor manul includes time not for toe ! Set

MDchanic

I can't argue with your experience, but when I've done it, it's lined up perfectly.

I'm surprised that there's that much variation between steering boxes.

- Eric

oldstata

Think as long as you can turn from lock to lock with equal turns from center 1/8 can be fixed by adjusting the toe to center wheel .
Again this is not a stock box and I have not done this swap for my self yet maybe that's the difference ?

oldcutlass

It would have been a non issue Eric if he just changed with a steering box that was identical to his old one. However he changed to a close ratio Jeep box. Plus his old box may have had issues to start with and the alignment masked over them.

I almost always get an alignment after replacing front end parts because all the tolerances change due to the removal of all the play that was there due to wear.

oldsbucket

Its in for alignment now after sleeping on it I still don't know why it came out so far off except that it is as stated a different box for a different frame i was considering installing the spacer between the frame and box but the original and new are the same width so it's out. i'm asking for more caster than stock but i don't have a specific # so I'll do a search on that.
when on the lift the old box was almost impossible to turn by the wheels at center but became easier,normal, off center i thought this might be the reason it would wander dangerously at speed but that might be normal if it is a variable ratio box idk. the new box has more feel throughout without the one finger effect originally

oldsbucket

got it back with mixed results still needs constant correction on the freeway but an improvement ..has positive castor around 1*. i could use a new idler arm was all that was mentioned but not not that bad car has had previous front end work and i just replaced the upper bjs so i'm hoping for the ilder to fix the wandering but will likely not be the entire fix the way things usually go .

oldcutlass

What did they set the toe to. Generally if it's not driving well bring it back and explain the problem and see if they can correct it. They should be able to get more caster.

oldsbucket

just installed the idler it was definitely done even though the nut was tight it fell out of the link as i was looking for the fork so that made a big improvement but still needs more the store also had a new center link in stock so under the might as wells i bought it now maw get the tie rod ends before i get the toe set again. While testing i got stopped by a couple that wanted to buy it on the spot but i couldn't come up with a number considering i usually work for $0.25/hr or less, had it for 8 years hard to add all that up, got his # though when i get a figure. still it made me feel better as i dump more into it

Lady72nRob71

What was the toe numbers the shop gave? If the fronts of the tires have any excess toe, wandering can occure. The fronts should be in about 1/16" to 1/8" if I remember right...

oldcutlass

Rob you have it in reverse, the fronts should be toed in 1/16 - 1/8.

oldsbucket

I didn't get the numbers but i have no idea how one would go about toe for the rear on a live axle car that is pretty much set by the axle housing itself unless i'm missing something i know they put sensors on the rears as i assume a check for doglegging that the fronts in straight ahead are the same as the rear. maybe u are thinking of a newer car?
natural deflection of the steering linkage from the rolling resistance means some toe in is desirable especially on these older cars as when rolling will deflect back to approaching o, toe out is trouble small amount of toe in keeps things tight the amount is determined by the manufacturer. but all that is moot i'm not there yet i would take it back but the maws have struck and i want make sure ive replaced the wear items. for all i know the used jeep craigslist box could still be the problem but for 25 thought it was worth a chance so i didn't pull it i will the next one if it comes to that. thanks mike

Lady72nRob71

Thats what happens when I trust my aging mind.
I made the corrections.