lvelocci

Hello all,

the slowest resto of my 72 cutlass continues. I just got the front brake conversion kit and went to start to go about the install and noticed that my ball joints (still rivetted in) appear in need of replacement. I also noticed that the upper and lower control arm bushings are dried and appear cracking.

While I am at it should I just replace all the bushings and the tie rods and sleeves? Also any thoughts on the coils - they appear reasonable but are original and rusty - so I can see me pulling them and atleast painting them.

is this overkill?


Also since I am replacing the various elements I am thinking about a pro-thane full kit for the bushings and then moog for the ball joints / tie rod ends. Springs???


any thoughts grealy appreciated and thanks in advance!

oldcutlass

You can do as much or as little as you want to your front end. It depends what your going to use the car for. Parts can be cleaned and painted. So it's really up to you! I like the standard stock parts, however the aftermarket stuff in some cases folks tell me are better. I've never really noticed a difference, when the old originals on my car are still there after 43 years, I'd say they work fine.
The pro-thane parts I've heard are good and I've used Moog forever. Moog also sells springs.

Lady72nRob71

Do the bushings - have it all apart just once, as it is a pain.
If you want a smooth comfortable quiet ride, then choose Moog rubber bushings. If you like the road feel of new cars - feeling all the tar strips and pebbles and can deal with more road noise, then choose poly.

Has your front end ever bottomed out over a not-so-dippy dip? If so and the car has over 100k miles, springs may be saggy and need of replacement. Moog's are great! Rockauto's prices are great, too.

Do those first.
Tie rod ends and steering parts can be easily replaced later on as needed. If you can tell they are bad by pulling on them, then replace now.

Here is my suspension rebuild, step by step:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post264807

And if you are not careful, you can end up doing this...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post292889

Allan R

Well sir, if you have to do upper ball joints, you may as well do the lowers as well, and Yes, replace your bushings. They don't cost much - just a PITA when you're pressing out the old ones. Since you'll have the front suspension apart, I'd pull the front springs. I did all this during the fall. My springs were also factory original (120K miles) but they hold the car where it's supposed to be. For about 3 hours of work detail sanding them and painting, they look like new.

What you're doing is not overkill, it's called preventive maintenance. On stuff that's pushing 40 years old? I do them again in a heartbeat. BTW the CA's are not that hard to do for bushings once you get the hang of it. Use a ball joint press for the Lower ball joints, and use a bushing press kit for them. They are free loaners from autozone. Use the right tool for each job and it goes faster.Getting the upper CA mounting bolts out can be tough though. Follow Robs thread or CSM guidelines and it'll work out fine.

The steering linkages are pretty easy to do. Even I got it done. If you're going to replace your ball joints and steering linkages, just use a pickle fork and break the connections; it will probably also damage the boot. If you can re-use any of your old parts, that's a bonus. I replaced it all except the pitman.

I'd suggest you also have a serious look at the stablizer link bushings/bolts and the stabilzer bushings too. They're really easy to get to and it takes very little time to install new ones. (not expensive either) If your bushings look anything like the ones below? You need to replace them. While you're in there checking stuff, also look at your brake hoses. Commonly overlooked; if they're cracking or really brittle? Change 'em out and bleed the brakes. Man, there's so many things that lend themselves to going a step further. It's how I got roped into rebuilding my entire front end. If I had good weather it would have been done in about a month or so. Mostly the 'or so'

lvelocci

Thanks Al and Rob - very much a huge help. I am trying to source the parts in Canada - which is a PITA - but the folks at Summit are even more so...

Anyone have a good parts provider in Canada? they all have some of the parts but none have all of the parts which is painful.

I have taken lots of pictures and will ensure that I get them all up here once it is done.

Aron Nance

While you are in there looking at all those front end parts, look R-E-A-L closely. Going back to the 40-50 year old car, some of those parts LOOK ok, but over time might have rusted/bent/whatever and aren't noticable to the casual glance. Ask me how I know. Had the right front idler arm adjustment (I think that's what it is; non-knowledgable/non-working on tech here) sleeve that was paper thin (from whatever) that snapped at a very slow speed, after just pulling off a major thoroughfare at 75 MPH for about 10 miles. This actually gives you a really bad case of the "shakes". Check it carefully and replace any questionable parts.

Allan R

Where are you in Canada? I'm AB. There are some good boneyards in SK and there's a couple of places around Edmonton that still have old cars. Prices are reasonable in SK, but high in AB. The suspension on your A Body should be interchangeable with up to 1977 model years IIRC. I did not buy new stuff from Summit; aren't they the ones who won't sell to Canada anyway? Buy your parts locally if you can, if not we can give you the names of at least 4 guys on this site who will have the stuff you want. There is a guy in ON; goes by the name of 'Cutlassguy' on the web, also 'madd442' on this site if that helps. Don't know about his pricing but his parts look good.

Wow! the sleeve rusted out? Glad you weren't hurt. Those things usually hold up better than that. My 40 year old ones were just as thick as the new ones, but the threads were darn near impossible to rotate. I replaced all my wearable parts with new ones because it didn't cost a whole lot to stay safe; and they were easier to install also.

Lady72nRob71

Check for cracks / bends all around on the control arms, esp around the ball joints.
Easiest to do once they are cleaned and stripped.

The adjusting sleeves are cheap - just replace when doing tie rod ends. Will make doing alignmenst a snap because the threads will be clean.
If these are adjusted with the slots UP, water can get in and not drain, causing rustout. Ideally, the slots would be positioned downward if possible...

Allan R

X2 on this. If the tie rods are suspect, change them out too. One of my outer tie rods was missing a boot. Like Rob says, putting together all new parts is a breeze. (put some anti seize on the threads of the I/O tie rod threads to keep them from future corrosion - it also makes them easier to adjust)

With ball joints sometimes you won't see boot damage (blowapart) unless you clean some of the accumulated grease off them.

During a brake check, take the front rotor off and check the grease seal at the back. If it's never been replaced, you could be in for a shock! Mine were cracked very badly and ready to let go. You'd never see that unless you did a complete inspection. That's all you need- grease going all over your brake rotor...chances are you also need to replace/repack the wheel bearings, check the races and grease the hub.

1968ragtop

Allen R. I'm in Alberta too... Where did you get your front end parts from? Where is a good source in Alberta? Thanks.

Allan R

I got a lot of my parts from the local NAPA. Went in one day and asked if I could still get a discount (used to work for muni govt) with my retirement card. They said sure. So I bought from them. My costs were just around 50% of retail. That makes a huge difference when you are on a pension. You can also get some decent deals at Partsource + they have a tool loaner program. If you work for a large company that uses NAPA for parts supplier, chances are you can also get a good deal.

You going to bring that nice vert to the Rocket roundup in July? Closer to you than me - the event is held at Hildebrandt Motors in Olds AB each year. If you're interested PM 442much (Ken Pilidis) he's the pres of the Northern Lights Chapter Olds up here. He can set you up. Would be nice to meet all the guys I've been chatting with over the web.

Fakser

I ordered a front end rebuild kit from PST and thought I was going to get crap but all the parts were stamped federal mogul. Rockauto probably will be the next cheapest thing if your ordering individual pieces though.

1968ragtop

Allen, yes my plan is to make it to the olds show in olds, I've been to many in the past, looking forward to it! Thanks for info on the parts, I'll check out Napa.

crholds442

This has been a great thread for my situation. I have a 69 442 conv in a frame off restoration, so all suspension and brakes are easy to deal with. I want to switch front drums out with aftermarket discs. I want to stick with a USA made conversion kit.... any recommendations/ do's or dont's? I'll check with my local NAPA... what is "PST" ? Thanks...

Lady72nRob71

PST = Performance Suspension Technologies

Allan R

As you probably know if you are working with the chassis the suspension is a little different to work with without the weight of the engine. Have you got a thread started showing your build? If yes can you post the link or LMK what the title is? Looking forward to seeing your work in progress

crholds442

GUYS, thanks for the reply. I'll check out PST. I'd like to start a restoration process thread or post on Picassa. The garage is a train wreck and I'm working thru the mess to get to the car. I'll clean up and POR-15 the frame... then comes the suspension and brakes upgrade.

501Paratrooper

NAPA in the states gives a 5% discount to AAA memebers, probably the same for CAA.
If you can check Rock Auto they prices are some of the best and there is usually a code for a 5% discount.

Stevec

Replace as much of the suspension as you can afford,do it once and be done with it. I had a budget in mind when I did mine and just said hell with it and went with a complete Hotchkis front and rear suspension. It lowered the car one inch and also went with the tubular upper and lower control arms. I installed a new hi performance steering box and all new tie rod ends,pitman arm,idler arm etc and bilstiene shocks all around. The car handles awesome a little harsh over bumps but I wanted more performance. There are a lot of brands to choose from and a stock rebuild is always good too. It's all up to you!

Lady72nRob71

Looks like you were in the same situation (and same garage state even) that I was in 6 months back. Do all you can now while it is apart. You do not want to have to fight coil springs more than once on the same car...

Allan R

They gave me a (substantially) bigger discount for buying under a corporate account. Ask your company if they have an account with NAPA and whether you can buy using their acct. The company I retired from deals with a lot of transportation needs and NAPA was super good about continuing to offer me the corporate rates. Also check and see if they will give better discounts for military. Can't hurt to ask.

crholds442

I'm really itching to get back to the 442. Thanks everyone for your input. I'll be ready build up the running gear once I get that frame cleaned up and painted. I'll see what prices I can get thru AARP, ex military.... etc. I'm retired too.