Ok, so I bought a God awful 1985 Pontiac parisenne that's been sitting for about 10 years. I cannot get it to start and its driving me nuts. No matter what I do the motor will not turn over fast enough for it to catch. It's almost as if it had uber high compression or was partially seized... I cannot turn it over by hand with a bar. It is verrry sluggish with starter. I have already put new starter battery and battery cables on it as they were missing when I got it. I have no abnormal voltage drop and battery tests good so I am confidant in saying the engine is too hard to turn over and it is not an electrical issue. Anyone have any thoughts? I have already put atf in cylinders.

I know it's not an Oldsmobile but I was hopeing someone would have some insight

 

Sounds like you've put some effort in the right spots. You might have found out why its been parked for 10 years...might be trouble.

 

It was supposedly running when it was parked... And I drained the oil nothing looked queer...I also cut all the belts off in a fit of rage and that didn't help any... Is there such a thing as lifters leaking down to the point they won't open valves? Since it sat so long? Like could I have 4 compression strokes happening instead of two? Could this cause an issue? I'm getting frustrated and cold... Minus 5 out now...

 

Sorry to rehash the obvious...but you're saying that you've had this car for ten years, and it supposedly ran before you bought it, and after sitting for ten years, having never witnessed it running before, and unable to turn it over manually, you just now today on a -5 degree day decided to start it up?

If I have that right, I'd say number one, why not wait until it's a little warmer out? I had a car that I sold a few years ago, new battery, good cables, good starter, it ran perfectly fine, started right up. I parked it at the beginning of December when it was 40 degrees out, and at the beginning of January when it was 10 degrees, it would barely even crank. I put a heater in front of the car blowing at the grille and under the bumper, put it on a charger, and let it sit like that for maybe a half hour. Hopped back in, and it JUST started, but it wasn't happy about it.

If you HAVE to (try to) get it started, my personal plan at around zero degrees on a car I wasn't sure would run would be to get the engine warmed up real well, preferably in a heated garage or with a torpedo on it for an hour or two. Then, I'd change the oil to something really light, like 5W30. Then I'd prime the oiling system. Meanwhile, have the battery charging in the warm garage. When you've got it all back together and you're sure that the timing is lined up close, hook the battery up and give it a shot. I wouldn't expect too much though.

 

Will it spin freely with the spark plugs removed? This would eliminate an unlikely compression issue. If you pull the spark plugs keep them in order and look for any that are super clean compared to others as if they were steam cleaned due to coolant in the cylinders or, if any of them look corroded from water sitting in the cylinders.

 

First question: Why was it parked?

Second question: Do you KNOW that there isn't some internal damage or rust on the cylinder walls?

These are kind of basic questions. As noted, pull all spark plugs, be sure the trans is in neutral, and try to turn the engine over with a breaker bar. Even if the engine is fine, it's possible that there's a lockup converter problem in the trans that's causing the drag on the engine.

 

I bought the car two weeks ago where it had been parked for 10 years prior. It was parked because it's owner left the province and never came back for it. I have no garage to heat it up. I changed all the plugs and one had a fair bit of corrosion on it. I can turn it with a bar for 1/4 turn before it binds up. When it binds up I cannot turn it back the other way. I think I have rust on the cyl wall, but what can I do to make it turn over? Rebuilding and replacement are out of the question. I have no money. I am open to any ideas no matter how crazy. I'm almost out of Jim beam so I'm about to call it a night

 

http://oldsmobilewiki.com/index.php/...#Siezed_Engine

 

If one or more cylinders are rusty, replacing the engine with an old used engine might be cheaper than the alternatives. If you bought this car with the intention of making it a reliable driver with zero additional investment, I think you might have a problem.

 

Hmmm,
Just thinking out loud here. The 1985 307 is the same engine whether it was in a Poncho, Buick or Olds, so if your engine is hatched you could always find a replacement at the boneyard. I was concerned you said the spark plug was corroded. If there's coolant in the cylinder that's bad news all the way around - anything from a cracked water jacket along the cylinder to a blown head gasket. What did the oil look like on the dipstick? Just dirty or was it chocolate milk color? If it is, don't waste any more time trying to start it.

If the oil is just dirty? Seeing you're in NS, the chances are really good the car has a block heater. I'd do 3 things that could give you some mre instant results:
1. Pull the plugs again and see if there's any change in the engine turning over.
1a. Fog the cylinders really good. Then put the plugs back and let it sit for a day
2. Drain the oil and put in some clean 5W30
3. Plug in the block heater for about 1/2 day and see if that helps the engine turn/fire.

EDIT: Intagration - I see you posted while I was typing. I think we're seeing the same thing.

My obvious question is: Why would you even buy a car that wasn't a runner? I'd be wanting to hear it fire and run before laying out any $$. An 85 Parisienne isn't exactly a high demand collector car so I expect you were looking for a winter beater? Always get one that runs for starters.

 

Is it the dreadful Poncho 301?
Those were known to be a pos
for an engine.

 

Where was the corrosion on the plug? Was it on the six-sided external metal part or on the section that is inside the combustion chamber once the plug is installed? If it was on the exterior of the plug it doesn't indicate a problem. If it was on the grounding electrode that does indicate a problem.

 

This sure sounds like rusted bores. If it were warmer in your climate, it might make a difference.

I've seen worse, but it might work for a little while. Budget minded folks gotta do what they gotta do.

Let us know what you're gonna do after the Beam wears off.

 

I'm thinking it sat so long and had old worn out coolant and with it so cold one cyl crack and that is why rust on the plug.
If you have a way to run hot water thru the engine via a water hose from the house. Pull the plug and see if water come out. If not, let the water run and warm up the engine then try to start it with starter fluid, to aid in ignition.
Another thing, maybe a jumped timing chain. Pull number one plug, if you can bring it up to compression, and see if the dizzy rotor is pointing to the #1 wire.

Gene

 

Okay, so which is it?
Does it jut move a little bit and then stop, or is it easy to move, then hard, but it keeps moving, or is it hard all the time?
And can you turn it all the way through 360° or not?

Yeah. They all were.

No.

No.

Since this gentleman is Canadian, he probably means -5°C, guys, not -5°F - that's only about 26°F. Same temperature here last night.
Am I right, American Lead?

If you've got a rusty plug, then you've got a rusty cylinder.
There are three possible reasons why:
1. That was the one with an open intake valve, and it rusted because of condensation over the years.
2. Bad head gasket let water into the cylinder.
3. Cracked block let water into the cylinder.

Then buying a car that hasn't run in ten years may not have been the wisest use fo the little money you had.

Rule of thumb: If it ain't running, it's scrap.
If someone says it's really really valuable anyway (like, it's some sort of highfalutin' 442), then look at another kind of car, because any car that's worth something even though it doesn't run is overvalued .

- Eric

 

After some consideration, here is what I would do,
ASSuming that the engine turns through 360°, and
ASSuming that the rust is just from condensation:

• Remove all spark plugs.
• Spray a liberal amount of penetrating oil (KROIL, Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, etc) in all cylinders.
• Empty oil from pan.
• Replace drain plug, refill with 2-3 quarts of ATF.
• Turn engine though several revolutions with a 3' breaker bar, or a 4' pipe over a ratchet.
• Fill the bad cylinder with penetrating oil.
• Let it sit for several days.
• Turn again with breaker bar.
• Attempt to crank over with starter motor. If it spins, spin it for a while (in bursts of 30 seconds or so, to avoid overheating starter and wires) to free it up and distribute the ATF.
• Empty ATF, change oil filter, replace oil with 5W30, and try to start.

- Eric

 

Almost certain it will be a chebby 305, up here. The big Buicks, Olds and even some Caprice's got the Olds 307. Almost all the Pontiac's since the 60's up here, got the sbc. Firebird's was one of the exceptions. I have also seen 301 powered Grand Prix's. Try spraying WD-40 in all the cylinders. Then work it back and forth with the bar and repeat WD-40. It may run but expect oil usage and plug fouling.

 

Did not know that! Why would they differentiate against Pontiac full size?

FWIW my 78 Cutlass came from the factory with a SBC 305 4bbl. I didn't realize that till after I bought it. Fortunately air cleaner filters, oil filters were the same for Olds and Chev. FWIW, the 305 was a really decent engine and performed quite well.

 

GM did some weird things up here. I worked on a few, never saw 301 or 307. My friend had a 81, parents owned for years, 305 4bbl. His brother had a 84 Lesabre, Olds 307. His sister had a 80 Delta 88, Olds 350. The 305 was an awful engine till the early 80's. After that, no more flat cams, didn't burn oil as often and actually went over 300,000 km.

 

Guess I was just lucky then? I sold the car when it was 3 years old - only had around 70K km on it. Didn't burn any oil or make any valve noise.

 

Probably. I remember cams going flat at around 100,000 km, sometimes less. Dad's 78 sbc 350 1/2 ton went 240,000 km before throwing bearings. Had the blue smoke at start up though. The truck had 180,000 km when he got it from the original owner, only needed paint. I found the 305's were less reliable and under powered till the 80's. GM must have done improvements to the sbc after that. Compare that to 300,000+ km out of our 75 Cutlass with the 350 Rocket and 450,000+ km out of an Olds 307. There is a reason I run the SBO over the sbc.

 

No contest on the SBO. My 83 Ninety Eight Regency Brougham had over 300,000km when I sold it. No smoke, easy to start but getting tired. Only thing I ever had to put into that car was a new water pump and rebuild the carb once. It was useless for pulling a trailer though - just didn't have the power. But then that car was around 5000lbs too IIRC. Olds should never have dropped the 350 or 403 for the bigger cars.