I've spent a few dayssdays playing with the timing and reading old posts but haven't solved anything. Got my 350 rebuild in and running. It's HEI, 9.5:1 rpm intake, headers, brawler carb. Set the initial timing to 12. Starts fine. Reved it up to 3500 and set my total timing to 34. When I let off the gas the initial timing was now set to 20. Guessing that means my mechanical is set to 14. It runs great set to this problem is anything over 8-10 initial timing and it won't start when the car is at temp. Starter sounds bogged down, slow cranks. Even at 8 initial it's slow but I can get it started.

I'm thinking either I need to change the springs in the distributor so I can get more mechanical and less initial. But even that won't solve it because it still has hard starts at 8.


​​​​​​Or something else is going on, starter not good enough or starter is over heating etc.

Any trouble shooting advice?

My negative battery cable is hooked up to the alternator, it used to be on the block but doesn't reach anymore. Not sure if that could limit the starting juice.

 

When adjusting timing the 34* needs to be set at the rpm the distributor stops advancing. I'd drop my initial back down to 16/18 without vacuum advance connected. Could be any of the following, battery not fully charged, starter is weak, cables are too small or need replaced, carb float level too high and allowing excess fuel to drip into the intake, there are others but these are usually the main ones.

 

Thanks I did set the 34° at 3500 rpm. Maybe that wasn't enough for the distributor to stop is mechanical advance? How do I determine when it stops? Everything I read says 2500 to ,3500 rpm.

its a brand new battery, I thought about getting a new negative cable just be sure it's not that and wrapping my starter in that heat insulation.

 

The springs do not control the amount of mechanical advance, only the rate of advance. It is the weights and center bar that set the amount of mechanical advance. In the past I have used the Moroso HEI Advance Curve Kit as its center bar and weights give 24º mechanical advance, which allows the initial to be set in the 10º range for easier starting.

Connect the cable to the block and make sure there is a good connection between the starter body and the block. If you don't have the starter brace, install one as that provides a ground path.

Another option is to put a toggle switch in the distributor 12 Volt power wire so the distributor is not energized when initially cranking the engine. Turn the switch off, turn the key to spin the engine, then once the engine is spinning turn the switch on so the engine fires.

 

Resolved...... For now. Put a 2 gauge wire on the negative to the block and put in a new high torque starter. Set the total timing to 34 initial is 18. So far it's starting hot

 

Glad you got it. Now make sure your vacuum advance is set right, you want to limit it to around 10* to prevent light throttle pinging.

 

I was in my green 4 door in traffic, middle of Summer with the AC blasting. It was stop and go and the car stumbled a bit, died and go would not crank. The solenoid got too hot (this is an all original car, no header, th350, 2bbl with heat riser and everything). I got towed off the freeway and that was enough to cool it off, started right up after that.

 

Crazy.....I wrapped the new starter in insulation made for that. Hopefully that will help

 

I can't say how many times I got stranded after driving to a destination then the starter wouldn't crank because of the heat. Sometimes there was a water hose available and I would run water over the starter until it cooled enough to engage, but other times I had to sit and wait. I tried making a heat shield out of asbestos gasket material, new high torque starters with HD solenoids, new 1 gauge battery cables, but after several years the issue would always return. I finally gave up and went with the Ford fender mounted starter relay and haven't had that issue again in the last 20 years. It may not be pretty or original, but it works very well.

 

Update: In case anyone stumbles on this thread. My "new" rebuilt starter worked for 3 days that **** the bed. Got it replaced.

What fully resolved my starting issues was. New 2 gauge Negative cable to Block. New 2 Gauge Positive wire to the Starter. Rebuilt High Torque Starter. Parts store had it listed specifically for a 455. I have a 350. Wrapped it in insulation designed specifically for a starter. Purchased that from a Performance parts store near me.

Starts better than it ever has in 25 years. No hesitation at all even at full temp.

 

Proper electrical troubleshooting techniques = Start with the connections.... grounds, and pluses before replacing any parts. But you know that now.
After all, these cars worked fine from the factory for many years without blankets, dual batteries & alternators, and electric cooling fans.

As you've discovered heat increases demand on electrical components. Bad grounds (and + connections) then magnify the inadequacies to the point of overwhelming the component then failure.

Starter blankets keep the heat in very efficiently and for a longer duration. May I suggest it's removal.
You want to wrap the headers or head pipe with a blanket, not the starter.

Upgrade to an HD Truck spec starter solenoid. I install a mini ford heat shield over the solenoid.

Block off the heat crossover in the intake. The goal is to mitigate the heat.

Then tune the car. Verify TDC, the timing mark, and the distributor was stabbed correctly. Give it as much timing as it will tolerate. 12-14* base(700 rpm idle). 8-10 vacuum(at 700 rpm) and another ~12-15* cent. All in around 2700RPM.
Actually heavier springs in the distributor can help. You don't want the cent. adv. to come in until off idle transition ~12-1500rpms. You can use the springs in mixed sets to achieve your goal. They don't have to match.
Or find a shop with a distributor machine and have it custom curved(=best method).

 

Good thought.

In my post above I didn't actually detail what I did with the asbestos gasket material and it could be misunderstood that I wrapped the starter with it. What I did was use two long hose clamps to attach the rectangular sheet of gasket material to the outboard side of the starter so it acted as a shield between the starter/solenoid and the header pipes. The inboard side of the starter is uncovered so air can flow around and remove heat.

 

Well I guess the theory would be that the insulation reflects a large % of heat keeping out of the solenoid in the first place. So the fact that heat dissipation may be slower wouldn't be an issue. The advertising, for what it's worth, stated up to 90% heat reduction.

 

Glad all the changes worked. I'm not a fan of starter blankets or header wrap, it should not need that stuff and it holds in moisture.