rickbmac

Little embarrassed.

Rebuilt 1972 Oldsmobile 350 engine in 2004. Mild cam, double Springs, roller tip rockers, Edelbrock RPM Performer intake, 650 Holley carburetor, switched to HEI distributor. Started engine right away in frame. After newly painted body was installed on frame; funds dried up. Decided to put money into car again. Wife said I had to start engine prior to this.

Attempted starting multiple times this past week. Pulled distributor and primed oil. Distributor re-installed. Starter rolls motor over. Has gas, has fire. Set #1 cylinder on TDC compression stroke although for some reason mark on harmonic balancer 180 off. WILL NOT START.

150# compression on all cylinders.

Tried starter fluid. I am at a loss. Ideas please!

oldcutlass

If its back firing and doing crazy things, pull the distributor, turn the rotor 180* and reinstall. If its not then advance the timing a bit.

rickbmac

Sputtered, attempted 180 out and still nothing. Rotated distributor advanced and retarded. Verified 18436572 counterclockwise Nothing. ???

oldcutlass

Connect a temporary jumper 12ga wire direct from the battery to the HEI B+ terminal. If it sputtered your close, with an assistant operating the ignition turn the distributor slowly back and forth 1/4 turn. Do not flood the engine by pumping the gas pedal. To turn the engine off you must remove the jumper.

rickbmac

Have a temporary podium with key switch, gaugesgauges. Power from switch. I will run a direct wire from battery and return with results.

rickbmac

Have spark, decided to open front flap on carb to allow more air. Did not start, but kicked over.

oldcutlass

Your close, do you have fuel?

rickbmac

[QUOTE=oldcutlass;1034457]Your close, do you have fuel?[/QUOTE
I do. Do you think that with upgrades that I should try higher octane? If so, what about fuel in bowl.

oldcutlass

Octane should not matter to get it to run. Do you have a timing light that you can hook up and adjust the timing while cranking?

rickbmac

Wil do tomorrow. Thanks

joe_padavano

Back to basics.

First, you DID confirm you are at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke, right? Pulled the no. 1 plug and verified compression as you bump the starter around to TDC? Second, you DID confirm firing order is CCW, right? Third, you can check timing with a timing light while the engine is cranking, even if it doesn't start. Fourth, fill the carb through the vent port to get fuel in the carb before trying to start.

oldcutlass

How'd you make out?

rickbmac

yes TDC on compression stroke. Have fuel via carb when operating throttle. Firing is CCW. Was at family reunion yesterday and spoke with brother in law regarding this subject. In the past, I had only rebuilt completely stock engines. Have mild Complete Camp this build. He asked if I degreed cam. I have not. Engine is completely assembled. I know that I cannot make adjustments without pulling chain. I think that means that I must pull all tin including oil pan to access timing chain?
Odd thing is... engine started previously.

oldcutlass

How did you setup the timing gear marks? If they were set with crank 12 oclock and cam at 6 or 12 you should still start.

joe_padavano

Unless you completely misaligned the timing marks, this will not prevent it from starting. The cam might be off a degree or two, which MIGHT affect ultimate power, but certainly won't prevent it from starting. This is not your problem.

edzolz

Did you install the timing chain that is roller with the advance/retard marks. It is very easy to confuse the 0 timing mark with the advance/retard ones on the bottom gear. Bought a Corvette once that would not start because the owner had done just that. Realigned the proper marks and it ran like a champ.

redoldsman

He has 150# compression on all cylinders. If the camshaft timing was off very much, I don't think he would have that kind of compression. He has compression and gas. That only leaves one thing. Timing has to be out of whack. JMHO.

scottv442

my two cents.

you say you have spark, but....
check the HEI. if the ECM is bad it would cause a no start condition.
(ECM is the flat module on the distributor base with 2-prongs on each end and is screwed to the base.)
next try the HEI coil to see if it needs replacing.

i asuume all plugs are gapped?

joe_padavano

Just to avoid confusion, the thing inside the HEI is an ignition module, not an ECM. An Engine Control Module is a far more powerful computer that accepts sensor inputs (RPM, throttle position, manifold absolute pressure, gear selected, etc, etc) and uses this info to determine and control fuel map and ignition timing. The ECM will also control secondary functions like emissions controls, A/C compressor clutch, and idle speed. The ignition module is simply an electronic version of points that reads the Hall effect sensor in the distributor and uses a solid state relay to trigger the coil. There is no processing, just switching.

rickbmac

Installed a new Proform Module and Coil, checked and have fire at plugs (AC DELCO R46SZ gapped 60 thousands). Unsure if adequate fire for compression. With fire I assumed coil was good.

ELY442

May I asked, what is he going to look for? The timing mark on the harmonic balancer to see if its visible on the degree mark?

oldcutlass

Yes, you can set timing the same as if the engine is running.

joe_padavano

So long as there is spark, a timing light will work whether the engine is running or just cranking on the starter. Be sure your battery is fully charged when doing this, however.

rickbmac

Believe it or not, went out to the garage tonight, removed charger from battery and attached cables, pumped the throttle 3 times and held at 1/4 open. Darn engine started right up. Going to take to the local exhaust shop and have dual exhaust installed.

I wanted to have 3" installed, but shop said 2-1/2" was all I needed and room is limited for 3". Thoughts?

After exhaust is installed I will tune.

oldcutlass

Glad you got it. 3" is overkill, go with the 2.5.

olds 307 and 403

X2, especially if it is still around 8 to 1 compression.

rickbmac

Heads shaved block decked, think I am close to 10:1.

Have original harmonic balancer. Believe it must have spun on center as when on TDC #1 Compression Stroke... timing mark is at approximately 7oclock rather than 1oclock (standing in front of car) Time for new balancer.

RetroRanger

hey Rick

I used this one on my 455 it seemed like a good unit for the price i have no complaints w it.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo....217472&jsn=485


I also have a good used one if you want it pay for shipping and its yours.

rickbmac

Have not started since, same issues.

oldcutlass

You need to isolate to whether its spsark or fuel.

rickbmac

When it started, it was momentarily. I shut engine down almost immediately. That time I had disconnected the electric Holley blue pump and just pumped throttle 3 times and opened 1/4. Engine has a Holley 650 DP. The next time I hooked pump back up. I have a regulator between pump and carb.

rickbmac

While #1 plug was out, attached to plug wire to check fire. Looked good, but i am pushing 10:1 compression. Should I test amount of fire at plug?

oldcutlass

When you operate the carb linkage and looking down into the carb, do you see 2 solid streams of fuel spraying?

rickbmac

Yes

oldcutlass

Three pumps is probably too much with that carb. Make sure your timing is set to at least 16* BTDC and as stated earlier in the thread can be done while cranking. Also make sure you have full battery voltage to the distributor. even if you need to run a temporary jumper direct from the battery. Just remember to stop the engine you must remove the jumper. If you have a tach connected disconnect it for now. Once its running double check the timing and adjust your carb. On a side note, your pictures show the manual choke all the way closed, make sure the lever is in the position where its all the way open.

rickbmac

Will do thanks

rickbmac

Verified 12.6 volts at distributor.
Installed distributor 180 degrees out, the 1 tooth before and then 1 tooth after just as test. No luck so installed distributor in correct position.
Harmonic balancer bad so I have no bench mark to verify timing other than setting on number 1 cylinder compression stroke TDC.
Installed carburetor 10 years ago directly out of box assuming presets correct. Engine started then and there has been no changes to setup other than I pulled the distributor to prime the oil pump. And 10 years.
I am at a loss?

rickbmac

Friend stopped by this morning. Turns out that all that I needed was an extra set of hands. He turned the key while I operated the throttle. Started right away.

Cutlass Fan

So what did you do differently when operating the throttle from under the hood as opposed to to operating the throttle from inside the car that caused it to start?

rickbmac

Cannot access from inside car at this time. Will hook up later.