Macadoo

After installing the comp cams roller tip rockers I discovered I have some major oil leaks at the covers. Makes sense, since the roller tips splash a lot more oil than the stock rockers.
It could be two things; 1) The cheap chinesium chrome covers, or 2) over-tightening. Or 3) both

I want to use these covers if I can because my daughter bought them for me for Christmas. I've got the rockers adjusted nice and quiet and the car is running great so I don't mind using RTV if necessary. So opinions; cork gaskets, rubber gaskets, with or without RTV? Or course I'll get all surfaces nice and clean and check the covers for true.

And tightening procedure? I don't have an inch-pounds wrench but I've read that a lot of folks finger-tighten, then go another half turn. Or use a nut driver and get them hand tight. I certainly have the rookie's urge to use a breaker bar on these things so I want to get past that.

To be fair, when I refreshed this engine, I was careful to get them as close to 7 ft lbs as possible but they kept loosening. And for the record, I'm using the stock cover screws.

joe_padavano

Your problem is E) all of the above.

The Chinesium valve covers always leak. Overtightening just makes it worse. For starters, ensure that the valve cover sealing rails are straight and flat. Use a block of wood to hammer them flat if needed. The aftermarket covers can be thinner gauge metal than stock, making this worse. I prefer the neoprene gaskets, but I always use stock covers. I've had good luck with RTV on cork gaskets also. I typically don't use a torque wrench, but rely on my "calibrated" wrist. After a few decades, you get a feel for the right torque.

pogo69

mac if you used the thick walled guide plate pushrods they are restricted so you will have less oil up there... a basic and i like cork will work for a gasket although you can spend a lot more on exotic gaskets.... you may need to peen your valve covers by making sure the holes are flat and not curved from on and off tightening... if you dont have a torque then a nut driver is good start in the middle and work out and screw them by hand and give them just a snug down under rather than over tighten

oldcutlass

I too like the neoprene gaskets. After making sure the contact surface on the VC are clean, oil free, straight, and flat. I apply a thin layer of weatherstrip cement to both the gasket and VC. Let it skim over and glue them together making sure the gasket is seated properly all the way around the VC. Then install them on the heads and snug them down. I also don't use a torque wrench on VC bolts. After the engine has a few heating cycles I snug them down again.

Macadoo

Thanks fellas. So I'm assuming no RTV with the rubber gaskets. RTV with cork sounds good though. When the covers were new, I used copper spray adhesive on one side of the rubber gaskets and stuck them to the covers and let them set for a while before installing them and torquing to 7 ft lbs (when the engine was out).

I'll hammer them into shape, check them for straight, and use cork with RTV, making sure not to overdo it. I don't want globs clogging the return holes.

If all else fails, I still have the stock covers I can clean and paint.

Macadoo

That's what I expected too. I think it's the rocker design; the oil runs over the tops differently than stock and spills over the sealing surface way more than the stock rockers. I ran this engine without the covers when I had the stock rockers and only a couple drops of oil made it past the head and onto the engine. Man, when I was trying to adjust the roller tips, I had a puddle of oil on the floor out to both front tires. Good thing we have cats and lots of fresh kitty litter laying around.

pogo69

no you should not need the rtv with the cork as long as the mating surfaces are clean and true and the screws are not to tight

pogo69

If you have to or want to use the rtv its no biggie i just dont like it on the valve covers but you have to use what works

Macadoo

I understand it shouldn't need RTV but after all I've been through with the rocker change I'm ready for this to be done. I don't like the idea of having to clean sealer if I open them back up but I want to be sure they won't leak. And I don't have Joe's "calibrated" wrist

RocketV8

I've used cheap chrome covers with rubber gaskets and RTV in the past. Works fine if you don't overtighten them. Keep practicing on that wrist calibration

Tip - put studs in the heads! Makes it a breeze installing and changing gaskets. Forget about the hassle of aligning ten holes with loose screws.

Right now I'm using M/T covers with dry rubber gaskets. Been on and off at least four times without problems.

cjsdad

I used those studs on my previous 330 when I added those Ornamental (oriental) valve covers. I don't remember which gaskets I used now though, they came from the same auto parts store as the chrome covers. The studs make it too easy to keep the gaskets in place and the valve covers line up and slip on really easy. The nuts that come in the package with the studs have a large mating surface like the factory bolts and are ribbed on the contact surface so they don't loosen up. I used a nut driver to tighten them and they never leaked. I didn't have roller tip rockers though.

My442

Fel Pro Permadry were the best VC gaskets.


They had a plastic frame with embedded O-rings.


Leak proof and reusable.


I don't think they make them anymore.

Macadoo

Figures

Maybe I can talk the daughter into some MT covers for father's day. Then I can have good covers and the sentimental quality

don71

Yea, I don't think they are being made anymore. Totally agree they are (were) the best. VS 13403 T Keep an eye out. Ebay shows at least 5 completed sales in February from a store in Cali. You might want to check it out.

olds 307 and 403

Permadry are no longer made, which sucks. There are steel cored rubber gaskets on EBay. I had the best luck with either Permady or just RTV on the 5 bolt 5A heads on the 4x4. The Edelbrock chrome covers always leaked some. I tried cork with RTV and the thin rubber gaskets. I finally just used RTV and let stand 24 hours and no more leaks.

4speed455

I always use the rubber gaskets with rtv on the valve cover side only. That way if you have to remove the valve cover you can re-use the gasket.

Macadoo

And you don't have the mess to clean off of the head.

I pulled the covers and yeah, they were all jacked up. Removed the gaskets and silicone (on the cover side only), hammered them back into shape, picked up the 11/64" rubber gaskets, and used silicone on both sides.

And since I don't want to have to pull them again anytime soon, I went ahead and adjusted the roller tip rockers [with the engine running, this time].

I have another 1.5 hours before I reach 24 for cure time.

wcourt3010

I had nothing but problems with valve covers until i switched to a higher end valve cover gasket (rubber with steel inner core) and a light bead of RTV. i put some loctite around the bolts because they seemed to be backing out. I don't think i've seen a leak since. warm weather is on the way, can't wait to get my car out.

cutlassjoe

Me too and they work great!

don71

Felpro #'s

VS 13403 C Cork

VS 13403 R rubber

VS 13403 T discontinued the perma dry line.

One can glue two cork gaskets together to achieve more height if desired for use with roller rockers, using contact adhesive or rubber cement. If clearance is an issue.

The clearance problem is mostly associated with the poly locks hitting the baffles. This might clear your accessary brackets so its worth a try. Or try different poly locks.

It is possible to remove the baffles altogether with some concern over oil consumption through the PCV. It might or might not be a problem for you.

For the later engines only five of the holes are used instead of ten and that's ok, just seal them up.

Sealing issues can be most associated with crooked or bent valve covers=cheap ones. Make sure they are good and straight.

Macadoo

Well........fudge; they're still leaking. But just a tiny bit. Looks like I'll be looking for a set of MTs.
On the bright side; the roller-tip rockers feel great! The motor is a lot snappier. Must be a combination of the reduced friction and the fact that I didn't have enough preload (some valves, maybe none).

Macadoo

Weee doggies, those MTs are pricey. Any other recommendations for an aluminum or chrome valve cover? I found these by Mondello for $69 (top of the list) but they're just stamped steel.

http://www.mondellotwister.com/EngineAcc.htm

Macadoo

Or these by Moroso...

http://www.moroso.com/eb/catalog/nav...nuId=main.menu

oldstata

Might be alittle pricy but man just look at these

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/parts-sale/76829-holley-mickey-thompson-polished-valve-covers.html

Macadoo

The MTs are sold. Not really into the Holly's. But thanks Justin. I suppose I need to go with cast aluminum if I don't want leaks.

Octania

google says

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=gaskets+VS13403T

I thing RTV is contraindicated for valve cover seals. Permatex 3H, high-tack spray, gasgacinch, Yamabond, or Form-a-Gaset #2 perhaps.

cork or rubber as you wish.

oldstata

Did you pm him ? He has listed a few not to long ago I would check with him to make sure

He was even building some custom ones that looked killer

76oldswarrior

http://www.thewrenchmonkey.ca/produc...-pro/vs13403t/ Found these listed as in stock in Canada

76olds

Mac, I put the Edelbrock signature series on my 76 a couple years ago with the rubber gaskets no leaks so far.
The M/T's are some nice but as you say too pricey.

olds 307 and 403

I had both the cheap covers and the Edelbrock signature series covers, Edelbrock's are better. I currently have the Edelbrock version of the M/T cast aluminum covers. They were hard to find and I paid $100 a few years back. The polishing boys have bought up a lot of the covers and a person ends up paying more. Nice link, I couldn't resist, we are getting hosed with our dollar buying across the border.

Macadoo

My guess is that my current chrome covers are still jacked up. I straightened them as best I could but they weren't perfect. I was hoping the RTV would fill the imperfections. I may try stamped steel again and this time be way more careful. I'm starting to get a feel for it. I also have the valve cover tabs that came with the Y wing hold down bolts (that I didn't use). That may help me from dimpling the bolt holes next time.

Thanks for all the help, guys. But now I have valve cover envy

Macadoo

I think I've finally got 'er sealed up. The screws were very loose this morning when I checked them. So for the heck of it, and with little to lose, I went ahead and used the Y wing bolts with the wide tabs that spread out the pressure. I couldn't replace all the screws because of the brackets and AC box but did use the tabs under the regular screws in those spots. All except under the AC bracket on the bottom front of the passenger side. That one little tab kept the AC bracket from lining up and the bracket would have crushed that VC screw.
So I took the car out and mashed the pedal a few times and (knock on wood) not a drop of oil. And the Y wing hold down bolts go nicely with my cliche theme
I'll keep an eye out for cast covers but for now I think I'm good to go.

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