Ahhh MAN !! I hope these new parts work out for you Mac!! You continue to amaze me with the work you have done and continue doing on you engine. Put 'r' ther !!! I can only look on and think man I wish I could do all that.
Cheers to another great thread Buddy !!!
Eric

 

Yeah, install them ALL but leave them loose until each is adjusted. And yes, one cylinder at a time so I can keep an eye on binding.

 

I amaze you with all my mistakes?! Lol, I'm used to it. Thanks for the support, buddy.

 

Ok that make sense lol. No shame in making mistakes. My current 355 thats in my 72 was nothing but one problem after another but due to those mistakes i learned more than with any other engine i built before. The current 355 thats in the works will be the "graduation" build lol. Knowing what i have learned from my mistakes i now know what to look for to build a much nicer engine on a level i have never before.

 

Yup, I'm just preparing for my 455 build
I'll let you know what happens with the new studs. Hoping I have them by the weekend.

 

When I got home today I thought I'd come at this problem from a different direction. The rockers are still binding on the studs with the Trick Flow 8.3" rods. So why not go way too long and work my way backward. I guess I didn't go way too long enough because this was my pattern this evening. I thought I had the checker way longer than what I needed but it turned out to be 8.35". I think I can go even longer. Maybe even 8.4".

[IMG][/IMG]

It's going to be the weekend before I can check again. We're looking at 5 to 10 below zero temps for the next couple of nights...plus windchill! At that temp I'm lucky if I can keep the shop barely above freezing with both heaters running. Man does my ratchet feel cold

 

That's good to hear mac. With an 8.3 I had the same issue as you. I went 8.4 . We should be close in lengths because i had my heads milled so the felpros would act like a shim gasket . You are using a shim . We both do not have out rocker pads milled . I remember mentioning how you would be close to the same length but I could not make that assumption based on the fact you and I run diffrent valves. But it sounds like an 8.4 would be the ticket.

 

That's what I'm thinking too. Mark (cutlassefi) said the smaller base circle of the cam would be smaller only by .010 to .020 but I'm thinking it must be more. I had the heads milled but I didn't get the specs before they closed [forever]. I'm guessing it was as little as possible. How much did you have taken off of yours?

 

Trick Flow makes an 8.4" for the same price I paid for the 8.3". Should be a straight up trade. I'll eat shipping of course. But I'll check 8.4 this weekend for sure before ordering.

 

I had my heads milled .024 to make the felpros act like shim gaskets. You probably only had a skim off of the deck surface appx .003 . If you cut it as much as I did you run into intake fitment issues like I did . I had to have my intake milled to fit my heads properly.

 

Yeah, I figured that could happen. And I wanted my intake to fit more than just my motor ....for some reason.
So if we're pretty close with our heads, both using the same guidplates with no machine work, the only thing left is the cam base circle. Right?
I had two studs left that hadn't been gouged but I gouged one today when I double checked the 8.3s. So yeah, the 8.3s ARE gouging the studs. Maybe I'm pushing too much preload. I think I'm doing it right but it's hard to know exactly what "feeling resistance on the pushrod" means [to be at zero lash]. Is it an "I can just barely feel it..I think" kind of resistance or is it more of an "I can feel a good resistance" kind of thing.

 

I had my rockers bind up but not gouged up . post a few pics of them. You turn it until you feel the slightest resistance as soon as you feel any drag while turning the pushrod give it half turn past that.

 

Rockers aren't gouging, thankfully. Just the studs. Seems like pretty soft metal.
Maybe I'm using too much assembly lube, I'm finding it hard to tell when I get resistance until it's a lot of resistance. I'll try again this weekend.

 

Hey Copper, 8.4" seems a bit long by the looks of the pattern. Is this about comparable to the pattern you're getting? If I go any shorter I'm afraid I'll run into binding issues again. Also, this is the exhaust valve which is .010 shorter than the intakes so the pattern may be just a bit lower yet on the intakes.

[IMG][/IMG]

If this is going to cause premature guide wear, will they start leaking in 50k miles or more like 2k miles?

Here's a pic of the gouged studs. You can see the rockers were way too far down on the studs. I think these particular gouges were caused by the stock 8.234 rods.

[IMG][/IMG]

 

My pattern was a bit more centered but not dead center. Unfortunantly with out milling the heads this is as good as it will get imo because you already tried a shorter one .unless you go with a custom length. Which you can try again with your checker but it seems that's something you might have to live with. My pattern was much worse for years and hard use with bronze liners and they are still good so I don't think it will wear them out at an extreme rate. Is it correct no but due to the circumstances it might be something you have to live with.

 

Mac if you got new studs I'll take those . How much you want and I also do need that guide plate lol.

 

You want the gouged studs? No problem. I'll get those, the guide plate, and the extra pivot in the mail. Are you in a hurry?

 

No hurry. The gouges seem low enough to where the should not pose an issue for my set up so I may try them out

 

Damn, I don't have your address anymore and the post office closes in half an hour. If you can get it to me in the next ten minutes, I can get them out today.

 

I've got the roller tip rockers installed with the 8.4" pushrods. No binding, everything seems good. They seem kind of loose even with the half turn of preload but I can easily compress the lifters so they are empty of oil for sure.
Now, opinions please: Should I just button her up hope for the best or should I go to the trouble of reassembling without valve covers (or cut up my old covers) and tighten any that need it? I know what Copper thinks but I don't have his experience or much trust in my own work.

[IMG][/IMG]

 

Fire it up and see how it runs and if it makes noise.

 

This is a very good thread guys.

 

Eric, can I run it without the rear alternator bracket while I'm testing? It would make getting into that valve cover a lot easier.

Glad you're getting something out of it, wr

 

Check to make sure nothing's loose or misaligned, but it should be fine.

- Eric

 

Yes, you can.

 

Now you tell me

Started right up, running smoothly but with a definite clackity clack. How long should it take for the lifters to fill? I let it run maybe 4 or 5 minutes. It quieted some but not enough.

 

Make you could give the rockers another snug 1\8 th of a turn. I had a lifter that took a while to pump up once after that it never did it again.

 

it seems plenty of guys have had good luck with these roller tip rockers , i could never get them to work right . the geometry seems off to me.

 

The geometry is only off if you don't mill the pads or valve stem heights have been changed etc etc. Its not the roller tip rockers them selves its the height of the stud on the guide. I'm sure if mac and I my self had the pads milled we could get the "perfect pattern " so to speak.

 

so you have to pull , disassemble,and machine your heads to get them right. sounds like the geometry is not right. I have been working on olds engines since the mid 60's and don't mind learning more.

 

It's the guide-plates. They add, what was it Copper? .060"? One of the reasons my pushrods were too short. But if one raises the pushrod end of the rocker, the valve end really should be risen too. I thought about lash caps but that didn't seem very legit.

Okay, soooo........I pulled the brackets and valve covers, started it up and guess what?! No freakin' noise. Ugh. Went ahead and gave them all another 1/8th turn (great minds, Copper). Those roller tips make a helluva mess with the oil. I ran this motor with the covers off and stock rockers and not a drop of oil left the heads. This time it was all over! But a syringe and paper towels made quick work of it. Then I used a spray bottle with hot, soapy water to clean of the residue. Getting ready to button it back up...again. Fingers crossed the the clackities don't come back.

 

I'd go a half to three quarters of a turn (assuming you're using an 18 thread per inch pitch) after the noise quiets down, which means quiet them all, then back each one off until it makes noise, then tighten a half to three quarters after the noise stops.

If your thread pitch is different, or the rockers aren't 1:6, then the amount will be different.

- Eric

 

@tony I meant no offense I also did not disagree about the geometry. I was simply stating that to get proper geometry you need to mill the pads with out doing that you will end up with an ok pattern not perfect but ok. I talked with an olds builder when I ran into this issue and he pretty much said anywhere in the center is good too far up or down on the stem then you should worry but that is also open to enterpretation by whom ever is working on the engine . To some center area maybe too far low or high for some etc etc.

 

I put a set of Comp Roller Rockers on my 400 rebuild last year, used the 'checker' ordered pushrods and have a 'perfect' dead center pattern. Nothing milled, cut, ground, buffed, stroked......... you get the picture...........

 

Thickness might very from bbo to sbo then. Much like cylinder head cc's they vary from set to set between the two as there is always some form of variables in the castings. Although that would not make sense since the bbo and sbo ran the same rockers so the pads probably got milled to the same height on bbo's and sbo's . Then again I think deck heights also vary slightly so there is variables there than migh explain your installation. I highly doubt ever set of castings was the same as the last specially when there is high and low limits from the factory for machining it all adds up.

 

I think I'm good to go now. Much quieter than the stock rockers (ignore the squeak), which means I wasn't getting near enough preload. Now, if I could only drive it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIel...ature=youtu.be

 

INteresting; I can't seem to embed a video anymore. Did something change?

 

Well aren't you the lucky one

 

Sounds nice, real smooth. I can't believe you don't have oil on the fenders......... I tried mine w/o the VC's and man what a freakin mess....

 

I dont want to speak soon but im glad you got it sorted out Mac. Im also glad we did some horse trading that would have made this a bit more pricey and a hard learning lesson.