oddball

The "metal shim" is a repair part. The two thin ears that hold the float pivot pin are pretty fragile, and monkey-handed rebuilders have a tendency to break them. That metal clip provides a U-channel for the pivot pin to sit in. I've seen plenty in parts store units.

Octania

I will guess that you saw some greenhorn neophyte do that once. ONCE.

MDchanic

I've never seen it, but then I've seen probably fewer than 20 or 30 of these apart, and not hundreds, like some people.

And what kind of a monkey do you have to be to break this thing off?

- Eric

joe_padavano

I've never seen one either. I guess because I've never bought a carb that has been rebuilt by a commercial outfit. I do them all myself.

jeff in colorado

It may be that I should have went a different route, new carb, or re-built one from a trusted source if those are available. Since I'm this far in, I'm going to do my darndest to make this work. The choke I had left alone, but the more I look at it, the more I think it should be replaced, the linkage is pretty loose, and it seems I have found why the choke wasn't working on cold start up. The "link" I guess you would call it, the one inside the carb, wasn't attached when I dis-assembled the thing. Now trying to put it back together I see maybe why. It barely holds on to the linkage, and trying to hold it, plus the accelerator pump, plus the hangar kicked my butt last night. I'm thinking of trying to leave the choke linkage until after I get the rest together and doing it last. Guess I can always replace the choke later. Also, you may have noticed my fuel filter is not stock, was replaced with an inline filter. I am fine with that but when I cleaned everything up, I removed the sealant and now I'm thinking there will be a massive leak unless I seal the threads on that. I realize I'm not doing this the way many of you would, call me lazy, I just want it to work better than it was before I started and not catch on fire, not like I will be racing or showing this car.
Just some Wednesday thoughts.

joe_padavano

That's the only way to do it. Leave the choke housing and everything else off until you get the rest of the carb assembled. Carefully slide the lower choke arm with the link to into the cavity in the carb and insert the choke housing so that the "D" shaft aligns with the hole in the arm. Note that there is actually a Kent Moore tool to hold this arm during the process, however you can simply tape it to a coffee stir stick or something similar if you need to. A long tweezer might work also.



Once the choke housing is in place and screwed down, install the upper choke rod arm to the choke plate shaft. Sometimes the choke rod fits into a keyhole on this arm, other times there is a small hairpin clip. This should keep the rod in place.

Those are straight cut threads. They do not seal. The seal is made with a plastic washer on the inlet fitting. Depending on which carb you have, the washer will either be directly next to the hex (early carbs with 7/8" threads) or at the end of the threads (later carbs with 1" threads).

jeff in colorado

thanks again Joe. Like I said, I know the laziness on my part is making this harder. I do appreciate the ongoing assistance you and others provide.
Will check in this evening if possible for an update.

jeff in colorado

hope this helps the next lazy guy. I attempted to replace a few parts from the rebuild kit and put my carb back on the car w/o any adjustments. DO NOT do this, I should have known better myself. Now, of course, I need to remove the carb and do the adjustments, so I won't have a carb completely full and overflowing with gas. Laugh and point fingers, I deserve it I know. But like I said, hopefully someone else will learn from my stupidity.

MDchanic

Ha ha.



- Eric

jeff in colorado

on a lighter note, it started right away and didn't catch fire.
So, there's a bunch of recommended adjustments, some that don't apply to my carb. I will be doing the float primarily, what else is critical?
I replaced the filter, it leaks. I had made a gasket for the filter inlet, paper. Seems like I need to find the right plastic filter to stop the leak. Or do a couple paper ones, I don't know.

MDchanic

They're all important.

Just spend the hour you need to spend to get it right.

They're not hard to do, they just require a bit of patience.

- Eric

jeff in colorado

ok. I trust your judgment. I'll try.

MDchanic

Use drill bits to measure the openings of the butterflies and the little cardboard L-ruler from the kit to measure the other stuff.

Use small Vise-Grips to make adjustments in the bends of the linkage as needed (the CSM shows you where).

It's actually not hard, just a little finicky.

- Eric

jeff in colorado

ah, didn't get any cardboard ruler in the kit. But, the things apart again, lots easier the second time! I'm learning more as I go, not hard when you start from zero I guess. Anyway, the float seemed to be really low which explains the massive flooding Saturday. I went to adjust according to the instructions and noticed something else. A while back someone had mentioned they never saw a shim like the one on my clip retainer. Not the right term I'm sure. Here's a close-up showing why it was put in there.


DSCF6131_zpsof5eayly.jpg

jeff in colorado

so, I bent the float to the 3/8" from the top of the casting. But I am using the 1975 350 specs as that's as close as my instructions get. The thing is, with the modified slot, I'm not sure if it's right. I pushed the float hinge pin down until it felt seated, the top part just goes into the slot. I don't see any other way to do that part. Then with the tang seated on the top of the needle, made the 3/8" as close as I could. ok so far?

MDchanic

Yes, with the float hinge and needle gently seated, the float level, as measured at the seam at the far end, should be at the specification.

Sorry I can't respond quickly - am at work and we're busy.

- Eric

jeff in colorado

no worries, you have helped me more than you know, along with a few others, I thank you very much. Besides, I'm about done for today, have a BBQ at the Legion, wish you could join us instead of working! I'll spend a few days reading more and try not to skip any steps this time.
Of course if there's anyone on here that is in the Louisville, just east of Boulder, Colorado area, I would buy them a bottle of their favorite adult beverage for some hands on instruction. lol. Have a nice Memorial day all, remember why (most) of us have the day off. Later.

jeff in colorado

Hey.
I wanted to thank you all again for helping me try to do this carb but I may just give up if my next try doesn't at least make it a little better. All things considered, and knowing I didn't do much right either, it seems I might have a carb that isn't even worth saving. I mean, considering the broken parts, missing parts, unconnected choke, my lack of ability, and frustration, I'm thinking about just buying something new to replace it. I had adjusted the float to where I thought it should be, and although the flooding isn't as bad, it's still terrible. Is it possible that the choke was disconnected because it is contributing to this flooding issue? Is there a way to test the float setting off the car? Like filling the bowl and trying to flow gas into the inlet, just to see if the valve is stopping the gas? Because it seems like nothing is stopping it currently, just free flowing and filling the bowl.
What carb does someone here recommend for a slightly bored out 350 with an Edelbrock intake?
Thanks.

MDchanic

You can just leave the carb. mounted on the intake, remove the airhorn, hold your finger down on the float pivot, and crank the engine to see whether the needle and seat work and how high the fuel goes.

- Eric

jeff in colorado

ok, thanks Eric, I will try that this evening.

allyolds68

I'm not sure how you're going to keep the car from running but be really careful you don't have spark jumping around from disconnected coil wire or something.

Tom442

Tom from Littleton here, I've been following your thread here with high hopes for you to get your QJ right. These guys are the best at helping out.
BUT, there is a Quadrajet guy that lives in Lafayette named Lars Grimsrud. If you are at your wits end you may want to try and contact him...I googled him and there is quite a bit of info about him. There is an email...not sure if its still good or not, v8fastcars@msn.com It might be worth the effort.

jeff in colorado

yeah, I guess I better be really careful allyolds, but considering how much gas was already on the intake twice, it should be ok. It's not like it's been running long enough to get hot, sparks are a definite thing to keep in mind though, thanks. Earlier on I did find a couple inches of bare wire running across the intake, I taped it up without checking to see what it went to. I do stand by with a blanket and have someone else turn the car over when I test it.
Hey Tom, thanks so much, I will definitely look for Lars, Lafayette is right next door.

jeff in colorado

so, after a very informational reply from Mr. Grimsrud, and confirming some of my earlier suspicions as to the value of rebuilding this particular carb, I pretty well have decided to put a new carb in, and do something else with this one.
Can I get some recommendations or suggestions here? I really would just like to have my car back on the road, close to stock, or as close as my current set-up allows. In other words I would prefer not to need to modify anyting else, is there something I can pretty much bolt on and go? Or is that a pipe dream?
Thanks again....

droldsmorland

Any one of the mentioned carb vendors which deals with QJets will be able to help you. JET and others offer 2-3 levels of performance mods. Call the tech support hot lines with the OEM carb part number your looking for or current engine trans choke combo and they will send you a bolt on replacement with the correct center fuel inlet and choke of your choice. The 251 carb is not the original carb for the car correct? I didnt have time to filter through all 4 pages here. What year make model trans choke do you have in the car now?

jeff in colorado

I'm at work, but will gather info later this afternoon and post.
It is an electric choke carb, which I like. There's been some mods to the motor, cam, bored out a bit, and Edelbrock intake (not stock I don't think). As far as I know the transmission is stock but I will verify that as well.
Thanks droldsmorland.

droldsmorland

Manual or automatic trans. Its makes a little difference with the carb tune
So it sounds like a standard issue replacement w/electric choke will do you well. The tech line or sales line will ask you for the cars specifics. Eng size, stock or modified, trans type etc... Just have that info handy when placing the order. Give them the cars warm vacuum reading at 6-700 RPM too. I recommend speaking with someone verse a blind order.
This doesn't guarantee bolt on and go. By that I mean you may still need to tune/tweak it to your car. But should run decent out of the box.

jeff in colorado

I don't know the warm vacuum reading, is that crucial for an order?

droldsmorland

Yes if you have a (moderately) larger than stock cam it can be crucial. It will significantly change the cabs metering depending how aggressive the cam profile is. Especially on a Qjet. Other factors are the gearing, stall on the converter if its a auto, stick shifted car etc...From your post I suspect you may fall into the stock tune area. But let the data dictate that not my guessing. By data I mean vacuum signal, cam profile rear gearing numbers.

jeff in colorado

Well, I don't have much info. I bought this car two years ago, and the records aren't exactly all inclusive.
Not sure if any of this will help. Eighteen years ago, the motor was bored out .030", P518 pistons, moly rings, 93113 timing kit (true), 268 cam (42-229-4), valley pan, exhaust valves, valve guides. seats, springs, Edelbrock intake (3711), harmonic balancer. They also did some other machine work, deck block '0', new cam bearings. I guess all this means ore to some of you all than to me, but I didn't know the car had these mods until after I decided to buy it. I mean the guy did tell me, but I'm not a motorhead per se.

droldsmorland

Jeff lets do the KISS procedure. Purchase a $30 dollar vacuum/PSI gauge hook it up to straight intake vacuum and see what it reads at warm idle (6-750rpm) choke off, timing and A/F mix screws set to achieve the max vacuum reading.

This number will dictate the correct carb, mostly. Specify standard or auto trans, headers or not, high or low rear gears. Thats it.

jeff in colorado

My car is currently without a working carburetor, therefore not running at all. I will do my best to get the data and info needed, and pray I don't buy the wrong carb.
Meanwhile, maybe this evening I'll take another look at the one I've evidently helped to ruin.
Thanks though.

oddball

You are stuck in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.

For simplicity/cost, I'd recommend an Edelbrock vacuum secondary (take your pick) or a Street Demon. You'll get back on the road and can start enjoying the car again. These will require mounting adapters, extra gaskets, and work to the fuel line.

For more money, and more work, you can get a QJet built to your specs. I prefer to have someone local do this kind of work as there may be other gremlins hiding in that engine bay. Otherwise, you can go to a respected builder, like Ruggles. I'm not a big fan of JET, but folks have used them. Sparky (just search Sparky Quadrajets) may have cores on hand that he can build for you.

droldsmorland

Didnt realize or didnt dig thorough the thread to realize you weren't running. Yes the Edelbrock 1400 series AVS performer carbs are quite user friendly and are high quality. Get the rod, spring and jet kit for the carb too. The tuning chart will allow you to dial it right in. Tech support is great, they can send you the tuning chart PDF style. Call them and tell them what you have they will match you up with an off the shelf carb that will run out o f the box well enough to get you going then you just need to dial it in. This will get you up and running without the complexity of a Qjet.
You will still need a vacuum gauge and timing light if you dont have them. Also purchase the Edelbrock aluminum in line fuel filter that accepts off the shelf GM cartridges.

jeff in colorado

I have been lookng at new carbs, and some say only a Quadrajet will work with the Edelbrock 3711 intake, not sure that is true, I hope not. I mean it would be great to have one but finding a good one appears to be less than easy. I did look at Lars Grimsrud for a possibility, but apparently he has a lead time of 12 months and will not guarantee a carb previously rebuilt by a factory. I'm thinking about visiting some scrap yards hoping to get lucky. Thanks for the recommendations, I'll check them out.

jeff in colorado

Sparkys looks promising, thank you.

Tom442

If you can wait it out a little, it's worth the wait. My 442 runs great with that carb.

droldsmorland

Not sure about the application incompatibilities. Ill bet if a Qjet fit that intake the Ebrock will as well. Seeing as Ebrock made the intake Im willing to bet they can help. Call EBrock. You can have it running in less than a week. Then save the coin up for what Tom has.

Dam nice detail on that engine Tom. Pure art work!

jeff in colorado

x2 at least on the art work, that is gorgeous.
Well, so I got kinda mad at my apparent ineptitude and took the carb off again. I am certain there's many adjustments needed BUT, it's running, no leaks I can see. I put the float way low (seems to me), left the hangar off the needle (like it was when I took it apart), did hook the choke up even though it wasn't before. I did break the c-clip that holds the throttle cable on, so I have to get one before I take it out in the neighborhood, maybe after dinner. I'm very anxious to see if it runs on the road.
I have much thinking to do before turning any more wrenches on the carb area, but I am so glad it's at least running, and not (fuel) running out of the carb.
Thank you all for your patience with me through this. A lot learned, and so much more to go. I gotta say it does seem fairly ridiculous how this turned out.

olds 307 and 403

I used Ken at Everyday Performance, with a core, no plating and bushing work $250. Go with a Street Demon 625 cfm if you go new. It is based heavily off the Carter Thermoquad with new 3 barrel castings, works with square and spreadbore intakes and should seal on that spacer, may need the thin adapter plate. The Street Demon is a very similar carb to the Qjet and would have bought the 750 version but my Qjet custom built was $100 cheaper.